PunBB

Taken from the Philly Daily News:

Posted on Thu, Feb. 09, 2006

Gretzky denies he or wife placed betsDaily News Wire ServicesPhoenix Coyotes coach Wayne Gretzky denied that he or his wife placed bets through a nationwide gambling ring that New Jersey authorities say was financed by Coyotes associate coach Rick Tocchet.

New Jersey law enforcement sources told the Daily News on Tuesday that Gretzky is alleged to have placed heavy bets through his wife, supermodel/actress Janet Jones. Authorities have not publicly named any alleged bettors, but said six current NHL players were among them. They were not betting on hockey, authorities said.

"First of all, my wife is my best friend. My love for her is deeper than anything," Gretzky said Tuesday night after the Coyotes' 3-1 loss to Chicago. "The reality is, I'm not involved, I wasn't involved and I'm not going to be involved. Am I concerned for both of them? Sure, there's concern from me. I'm more worried about them than me... I'm trying to figure it all out."

Gretzky said he was unaware of any gambling accusations until Tocchet called him Monday night.

"The sad thing about this whole scenario is that Rick is a wonderful person and a great guy, so I hope everything works out in his favor," Gretzky said. "It's hard because I love the guy. He's a great guy, you know. I just hope it all works out for him."

Gretzky said his wife was in California and they talked, but she did not speak about her involvement.

"We didn't get into it other than she was concerned about Rick and she felt it was a tough situation with him," Gretzky said.

When asked if she had placed bets for him, Gretzky said "absolutely not." Except for trips to Las Vegas, Gretzky said he does not gamble.

State police Col. Rick Fuentes said an investigation into the New Jersey-based ring discovered the processing of more than 1,000 wagers, exceeding $1.7 million, on professional and college sports, mostly football and basketball.

Current NHL scoring leader Jaromir Jagr, of the New York Rangers, said he ran up a $500,000 debt earlier in his career betting on sports events on the Internet. Jagr said yesterday that he didn't place any bets with Tocchet and wasn't contacted by authorities. He also didn't expect to be called.

LizardKing51 Wrote:

let me out Wrote:the great one can do no wrong... :thumb:

Dont be so sure.. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154212&hubname=">http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154212&hubname=</a><!-- m -->

Ok that doesnt really prove much, but we'll see what happens. Say it aint so Wayne!

Innocent until proven guilty I know, but............

Of course with Gretzky, they could catch him red handed on videotape and 99% of Canadians would still defend him and be in denial.

KittieKatFish Wrote:Except for trips to Las Vegas, Gretzky said he does not gamble.

:lol:

Except for that beer I had at lunch, I don't drink.

ummm

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154231&hubname=">http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=154231&hubname=</a><!-- m -->

It's turned into a very bad day PR day for the National Hockey League. Gretzky, Barnett, Jose Theodore, etc.

cferneyh Wrote:When I say "blown out of proportion" I simply mean that surely there are much more important things that the police and FBI can be dedicating their resources too. A gambling ring involving pro athletes? I mean come on, who cares what these guys are doing with their millions? If this is what they do for kicks, so be it. They aren't selling drugs to children. They aren't beating up their spouses. They are looking for an adrenaline rush.

And I'm sure you'll say that it impacts problem gamblers who got drawn in and blah blah blah. But guess what, if those same problem gamblers hadn't found this ring, they would have found another, and then another, and then another. And if the FBI shut down all of the illegal gambling rings in the world, there's a place called Nevada where this is perfectly legal.

As for Wayne not knowing about Janet's involvement, I can certainly see that scenario. The guy is on the road for what, 300 days a year? On top of his duties with the Coyotes, Team Canada, Ford, McDonalds, and his video game, how much time do you really think he is spending in LA with his wife and kids? I probably spend more time with my wife in a week than he does with his in six months. And let's face it - a guy with the kind of money that Wayne has hires an accountant to manage and invest his money. With a net worth of more than $100 million, would $500K even show up on Gretzky's radar? I don't think so.

That being said, if it turns out that anyone associated with the NHL - even Janet - was betting on hockey, then I'll certainly change my tune.

First of all, I'm with you in that i don't think gambling amongst multi millionaires is a "heinous" crime. But what you and i think is irrelevent. It is illegal, and at this scale, in the scope of the law, it's a serious offense.

So now you have the foremost ambassador of the game lying about his wife's involvement. The contradiction between what he says and what investigators have discovered only begs for speculation about what other untruths he might be guilty of - like the extent his own involvement.

Not good. At all.

Gambling and high-profile sports personalities do not mix. The reason why illegal gambling draws attention from the feds is that there is no oversight and regulation, and usually involves unsavory characters somwhere along the line who regularly operate outside of the law. And since gambling is addictive behavior, time and time again, people get carried away, it begins to snowball, and things start to get real messy.

This type of thing can wind up threatening the inegrity of the NHL in a number of ways. It's not something to take lightly, IMO.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:First of all, I'm with you in that i don't think gambling amongst multi millionaires is a "heinous" crime. But what you and i think is irrelevent. It is illegal, and at this scale, in the scope of the law, it's a serious offense.

Well, when I say I think it is overblown I'm talking from my perspective. There are plenty of laws - past and current - that I don't agree with. For example, if you don't like someone and you want to shoot them in the foot, that should be OK. I'm kidding of course.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:So now you have the foremost ambassador of the game lying about his wife's involvement. The contradiction between what he says and what investigators have discovered only begs for speculation about what other untruths he might be guilty of - like the extent his own involvement.

Whoa Nellie! Nothing like guilty until proving innocent. So you are accepting the "unnamed sources say" as fact? How about we hold on to see what the evidence is?

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:This type of thing can wind up threatening the inegrity of the NHL in a number of ways. It's not something to take lightly, IMO.

Sure, it could threaten the "integrity" of the NHL, whatever that is, but if it turns out that no one was betting on the NHL (and if you believe the "unnamed sources", there was no NHL betting), and it was just some rich guys looking to blow their money on some big wagers, then what is the big deal? Honestly, what is the big deal? I read this week that 150 MILLION Americans had a wager on the Super Bowl (sorry - wish I had a link but I don't). ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION. How many of those were illegal? How many of those involved gambling rings? Yet we're supposed to point the finger at Tocchet et al? I dunno, it strikes me as incredibly hypocritical. I can virtually guarantee you that many of the people trying to make a big deal out of this have made both legal and illegal wagers. Being the sports fan that you are, I'm sure you've made a few. I know that I've made a few.

So, in a nutshell, the way I see it is this:

- Rick Tocchet is a moron for taking a cut (which is the way I've always felt because he played for the Flyers)
- the Gretzkys are innocent until proven guilty

And again, as I said before, if it turns out that there were people affiliated with the NHL who were betting on NHL games, then my opinion will change 100%.

cferneyh Wrote:Well, when I say I think it is overblown I'm talking from my perspective. There are plenty of laws - past and current - that I don't agree with.

I understand that. The reality is that Tocchet is in trouble, Gretzky could be too - regardless of our perspectives.

cferneyh Wrote:Whoa Nellie! Nothing like guilty until proving innocent. So you are accepting the "unnamed sources say" as fact? How about we hold on to see what the evidence is?

The Associated Press is reporting that Wayne is on tape via wiretap recordings discussing with Tocchet how to keep his wife out of public implication in this investigation. These recordings predate his public statement Tuesday where he denied all knowledge of this and his wife's involvement. Don't get all righteous on me - the AP doesn't report stuff like that if it's not true, and i think it's credible. Per the AP report Gretzky's a liar.

cferneyh Wrote:Sure, it could threaten the "integrity" of the NHL, whatever that is, but if it turns out that no one was betting on the NHL (and if you believe the "unnamed sources", there was no NHL betting), and it was just some rich guys looking to blow their money on some big wagers, then what is the big deal? Honestly, what is the big deal?

The big deal is this: his "wife" (personally i don't believe that Wayne isn't personally involved) is putting $5,000 bets on things like Superbowl coin tosses. That's hardcore betting. Sounds like the 'habit' is a little bit of a problem for "her". As i said before, things can snowball on gambling addicts, and pretty soon the organized criminals they owe big money to might start offering deals where the large debts will be forgiven if they start releasing inside information that can swing betting lines. Don't laugh - that's the fear that makes everyone leery of sports figures getting in too deep with gambling. I'm not saying that Wayne or anyone is guilty of that, but that's the fear that makes this a serious issue.

cferneyh Wrote:I read this week that 150 MILLION Americans had a wager on the Super Bowl (sorry - wish I had a link but I don't). ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION. How many of those were illegal? How many of those involved gambling rings? Yet we're supposed to point the finger at Tocchet et al? I dunno, it strikes me as incredibly hypocritical. I can virtually guarantee you that many of the people trying to make a big deal out of this have made both legal and illegal wagers. Being the sports fan that you are, I'm sure you've made a few. I know that I've made a few.

Dude, most American casual gamblers bet via online sites linked to offshore operations - specifically because it IS legal. I wouldn't even know how to get into these "gambling rings", and i'm sure most Americans don't either, because they're high-roller venues. But It doesn't matter - this isn't about anybody else. It's about those implicated. Once again you're trying to diminish or rationalize the allegations by pointing the finger at others who might be guilty of the same thing or worse things.

You're entitled to your opinion that this is no big deal as far the current implications. I'm merely saying that some people do, namely the feds and the sports media, like it or not, and that matters a little more than what you or i think.

cferneyh Wrote:I read this week that 150 MILLION Americans had a wager on the Super Bowl (sorry - wish I had a link but I don't). ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION. How many of those were illegal? How many of those involved gambling rings?

Are you sure you didn't read that 150 million Americans were expected to watch the Super Bowl? That was the estimated US audience, prior to the game.

I had read that 60 million people were expected to place a wager on the game...

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:I understand that. The reality is that Tocchet is in trouble, Gretzky could be too - regardless of our perspectives.

How could Gretzky be in trouble? Placing a wager is not illegal. Taking a cut of said wager is. Since Gretzky has not been implicated in running the ring, he's done no wrong. Tocchet is most definitely in trouble (should the allegations prove true).

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:The Associated Press is reporting that Wayne is on tape via wiretap recordings discussing with Tocchet how to keep his wife out of public implication in this investigation. These recordings predate his public statement Tuesday where he denied all knowledge of this and his wife's involvement. Don't get all righteous on me - the AP doesn't report stuff like that if it's not true, and i think it's credible. Per the AP report Gretzky's a liar.

Wow. That's dangerous. When did the AP officially graduate to being the court? Actually, what the AP reported is that "sources said..." blah blah blah. That's a wee bit different.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:The big deal is this: his "wife" (personally i don't believe that Wayne isn't personally involved) is putting $5,000 bets on things like Superbowl coin tosses. That's hardcore betting. Sounds like the 'habit' is a little bit of a problem for "her". As i said before, things can snowball on gambling addicts, and pretty soon the organized criminals they owe big money to might start offering deals where the large debts will be forgiven if they start releasing inside information that can swing betting lines. Don't laugh - that's the fear that makes everyone leery of sports figures getting in too deep with gambling. I'm not saying that Wayne or anyone is guilty of that, but that's the fear that makes this a serious issue.

Now, let me follow your logic (and tell me if I'm wrong). Janet, who has millions more than you or I will ever see, is allegedly placing wagers that seem like huge coin to us, but are a drop in the bucket to her. So, if she's losing these bets, then organized criminals are telling her that all will be forgiven (something tells me that she can afford to cover her losses, but anyway........) if she gives them inside info.

So, I am to believe that, to cover the losses that she apparently can't afford, Janet Gretzky is telling Guido in New Jersey to put a lot of money on Dallas last night because Shane Doan is playing with a big bruise on his inner thigh so he won't be 100%? I mean come on.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:Dude, most American casual gamblers bet via online sites linked to offshore operations - specifically because it IS legal.

Uh, why do you think they are offshore? Why is the US gov't fining magazines for accepting their ads? (Sidebar here: I do some work with companies that operate in this space, so I have a pretty good grasp of the industry). If it was legal, then these companies wouldn't have their "head office" in Costa Rica, the Cayman Islands, etc. It may be legal to base these companies in Costa Rica, but it ain't legal to base them in the US (again, placing a wager is legal - taking a cut of said wager is not). Which is too bad because if the US was serious about cracking down on it, Step One would be to legalize it, regulate it, and tax it.

Go Flames! Go Dion! Two goals tonight including the OT winner!

Now back to the gambling debate.

i'm starting to think that the canucks will NOT make the playoffs.jeez...

opiated Wrote:i'm starting to think that the canucks will NOT make the playoffs.jeez...

Maybe Linden will put the team on his back and carry them. :lol:

I know, I know.....low blow.

I wouldn't worry about your 'nucks making the playoffs. What I would worry about is yet another first round exit. I

As a hockey fan though, I'd love to see a first round COL/VAN matchup. That would be sweet. Provided of course that the CBC decides to invest in a 2nd set of HD cameras prior to the playoffs.

Man, the NHL should dock Detroit and Nashville some points. I mean they play 24 friggin games against Columbus, Chicago, and St. Louis! I think my rec team would go 18-6 against those teams. :lol:

cfernyh, i guess it's futile to debate it further. You can substantiate why you feel this is more of a fuss than it's worth, and i really don't need substantiate why I think it is big, as it plastered all over the media.

it's the stigma more than anything. I certainly don't believe that Wayne or his wife could ever get into a situation where the legitimacy of any competition is compromised. But historically, big-name sports figure involvement in gambling operations have sometimes resulted in some some suspect influences on the sports themselves, and it's a become a sensitive issue.

U.S laws on gambling are certainly grey - they basically avoid addressing it altogether as you say - which is why an online gambler really cannot be charged with anything if he bets with with companies not located on US soil. However, i can guarantee that if you WIN, even with offshore bookies, you owe the IRS some of your profit (i.e. "income"). I believe in Jersey there is a difinitive law that prevents one from profiting off of unlicensed gambling. Apparently you are legally allowed to bet and lose. :wink:

I just think it'll look pretty bad on Gretzky if his good friend and assistant gets tossed in the can for a betting ring he financed and his "wife" placed bets with. Seems big to me....but i guess we'll have to wait and see what actually shakes out...

Well, as of now I don't think Wayne has done wrong in a criminal sense but if he interferes with the investigation in trying to keep Janet out of it, I would think he could be up for obstruction of justice.

As for the Canucks, they'll probably make the playoffs as a 6 or 7 seed and get bounced in the 1st round, which has become the norm. I know that the current roster has NO CHANCE of winning the Cup. Well, ok, maybe a 1% chance.