11-29-2007, 12:18 PM
das_hips Wrote:I never mentioned anything about the power-play.
Wow. I didn't realize you weren't taking the PP into account, you know, when 30% of goals are scored.
das_hips Wrote:Ottawa's top forwards and defencemen are going to play on the power play. While you want to bring this into the discussion, I hardly see how it has anything to do with what I initally wrote, unless, of course, Mats Sundin, and Jarome Iginla play on some sort of decrepit power-play unit.
Try to be objective here. What PP unit sounds more impressive to you?
Alfie/Hossa/Havlat/Bonk/Redden
or
Sundin/Roberts/Renberg/McCabe/Kaberle
or
Iginla/Conroy/Gelinas/Lydman/Leopold
It doesn't take an NHL scout to answer that question. If you think the talent Sundin and Iginla were surrounded by in 2004 was anything close to that of the talent surrounding Alfie, then there is simply no point in continuing this discussion.
das_hips Wrote:I looked at every game that Daniel Alfredsson played, and scored more than one point from January onwards in that season (a more reasonable sample)
That's friggin hilarious! Only games after January and only games where Alfie had more than one point?!? Sorry buddy - first of all, that's 13 games by my count, which isn't much larger from the number of games that I looked at, and secondly, that is hardly a random sample.
We can both cherry pick games - like we both did - to "prove" our points. But you've already proved my point when you yourself said you weren't talking about the PP when you were suggesting Alfie rarely played with top flight talent.
das_hips Wrote:I'm sorry, had the suggestion of the 24% rollback even been brought to the forefront of the NHL/NHLPA negotiations, let alone a common understanding that the 2004-05 season would be cancelled?
Well, who knows? Were you involved in any of the bargaining sessions? How do we have any clue what was negotiated behind closed doors? Remember this?
TORONTO (Dec. 9, 2004) – In an effort to end the owners’ lockout that has reached 85 days and threatens the 2004-05 season, the National Hockey League Players’ Association (NHLPA) put forth a comprehensive proposal to the league today with major concessions to the owners, beginning with an immediate and unprecedented 24% rollback of all players’ salaries through the term of their existing contracts.
I think it is safe to say that if the players offered a 24% rollback in early December, that approach had been under discussion for quite some time, unless you think giving back 24% of your income is a quick and easy discussion. And which Ottawa Senator was on the bargaining committee again? Oh right, Alfie - the same guy who months before agreeing to this concession took a $7.5 million signing bonus. Call me crazy, but that strikes me as a little too convenient.
das_hips Wrote:I was actually arguing that Daniel Alfredsson is a better captain than Mats Sundin (although he looked quite heroic last night, as he does many nights). While we can continue to argue about his salary, it should be noted that this was not the intent of my original comment, nor really a point of any substance.
Sure, you were arguing that, but one of your points justifying why you think he's a "better" captain was:
das_hips Wrote:Maybe it's still the lingering aroma of horse-shit from the Yashin era, but for him to take a fairly modest pay-cut to sign a long-term contract so he can end his career in Ottawa is certainly a welcome change from the past, and a glaring oddity in professional sports
I called bullshit on that statement specifically, and I've since proved that he didn't take a paycut, which was all but acknowledged by you when you essentially admitted that you didn't really know (or understand) the parameters of his contract.
That was my only beef - that you suggested Alfie was leaving money on the table because he felt all warm and fuzzy towards the city of Ottawa. He didn't.
Again, I'm not going to argue the "better captain" nonsense, because everyone (except Canuck fans) is going to think that their favourite team's captain is better than everyone else's. But I simply can't end this discussion without taking this relatively simple shot at the "better captain, Sundin or Alfie" debate.
The Leafs - with Sundin as captain - have met the Sens - with Alfie as captain - four times in the playoffs. How many of those series did the Sens win? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: