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JT_Stone Wrote:
BulletRiddled Wrote:I really couldn't get in to this album the first few listens. Then it grew on me. Then it lost me again, and I can't get in to it any more. With all the great albums that have come out this year, WATS is pretty underwhelming. I think Bob Rock is on a cruisade to make every band on Earth sound exactly the same.

What is it with comments regarding Bob Rock?

I've said it before and I will say it again.

If The Hip or other bands do not like the direction he's suggesting THEY CAN FIRE HIM!!! It's not like the band is begging producers to work with them in fact I can comfortably say it would be the other way around. By bashing Bob Rock you are in turn bashing The Tragically Hip as it was their choice to work with him & their choice to release the album the way it is!!

Sorry, but producers aren't begging to work with The Hip,IMO. The guy made a comment that I kind of agree with, regarding Bob Rock. He has a certain idea of how he wants the records that he produces to sound. What is it with oversensitive Hip fans who flip out when someone mentions that Bob Rock isn't a favourite of their's? :what If criticizing Bob Rock means that one is criticizing The Hip, so be it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a fan criticized a band that he/she loved.

I don't think that WC and WATS are completely terrible, but I don't particularly like Bob Rock as a producer. I'm pretty sure that there isn't a law that states every fan has to love every album that one of their favourite bands releases.

All this classifying of fans and labelling of fans is complete nonsense. If a fan likes only old stuff or if a fan likes only new stuff or if a fan likes some old and some new, that's great. The elitist attitude that if someone doesn't love WATS, he/she is just a fan of the old stuff and can't appreciate it when the band changes and evolves, is complete bullcrap. The idea of a band changing and trying new things is great, but it doesn't mean that the music is neccesarily better.
mastodonfarm Wrote:Weeks later...

As far as being a Hip fan goes, I consider myself damn lucky. I've loved their last two albums. Even if WATS did take some time to digest. Regardless of all the well-made arguments... and some of the poorly made ones, bottom line is for me, the album is successful. And WC is top 3 for me. And there are people, fans, who don't like either one of those albums. Damn, lucky me!
Smile That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that fans who don't like WC or WATS probably like albums that you don't like. I guess that makes them lucky, too. So I guess it all evens out in the end.
Phantom51 Wrote:Bottom line is this album was released because the guys thought it was amazing and probably the best work they have ever done (and I agree). Not because of Bob Rocks work on it or his influence on the band. The band doesn't look at this site and they don't care what anyone on here thinks. They released a collection of songs that they felt were stellar and that's al that matters IMO. If you don't like it that's fine but don't blame Bob Rock.

Bob Rock didn't create these songs, the guys in the band did, the end result of the songs is ultimately what the guys wanted to release. If they didn't like what Bob was doing they would say "we don't like that, let's try something different".

So anyone who thinks it is Rock that "ruined things" needs to get their heads out of their ass.

They are not young guys anymore, i don't want to see Gord doing the same old thing on stage, its gotten tired, that is why what they are doing on this tour is so great, Gord is singing again, they are slowing it down and mixing it up. Inch and hour and emperor penguin in the same show.... are you kidding me!!!! I've been waiting a long time to see that... and I wasn't their!!!!

bobrockruinedthehip cleary wants to hear Road Apples part deux.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you're 100% wrong on that, but keep making baseless assumptions about people. It's a truly great quality to have.
Bob Rock's a lighting rod. It's a lot easier to point at him and say "Bob Rock's the problem" then it is to go into detail about all the stylistic choices people don't like on this album. Also his track record of applying the same bland technique to every artist he works with, regardless of genre.

Off-topic, but all you folks saying that you need to listen to WATS with a good set of headphones to really appreciate it - what do you recommend? I'm in the market for a good set of headphones (preferably some I can use both on my computer and MP3 player.)
JT_Stone Wrote:By bashing Bob Rock you are in turn bashing The Tragically Hip as it was their choice to work with him & their choice to release the album the way it is!!
I am bashing The Hip. WATS kinda sucks. That doesn't change the fact that I own every one of their albums and solo projects, have seen them live umpteen times, and plan to see them another umpteen times in the future. Not liking one of their albums doesn't make me a bad fan.
SoylentGreg Wrote:Bob Rock's a lighting rod. It's a lot easier to point at him and say "Bob Rock's the problem" then it is to go into detail about all the stylistic choices people don't like on this album. Also his track record of applying the same bland technique to every artist he works with, regardless of genre.

Off-topic, but all you folks saying that you need to listen to WATS with a good set of headphones to really appreciate it - what do you recommend? I'm in the market for a good set of headphones (preferably some I can use both on my computer and MP3 player.)
Bose makes beyond "good" headphones.
They are expensive, but my Gord, they produce the best sound from headphones I have ever heard.
Here are the ones that I have listened to music out of:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bose.ca/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/audio_headphones/on_ear_headphones/index.jsp">http://www.bose.ca/controller?url=/shop ... /index.jsp</a><!-- m -->

Big price tag... but if you are willing to pay it, it is well worth it.
sean.bonner Wrote:Bose makes beyond "good" headphones.
They are expensive, but my Gord, they produce the best sound from headphones I have ever heard.
Here are the ones that I have listened to music out of:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bose.ca/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/audio_headphones/on_ear_headphones/index.jsp">http://www.bose.ca/controller?url=/shop ... /index.jsp</a><!-- m -->

Big price tag... but if you are willing to pay it, it is well worth it.

Jesus...I guess i'm not that in the market, haha. I guess i'll stick with my $25 Sonys for now. :music
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/tension+that+binds+Vancouver+producer+Rock+trials+triumphs+with+Tragically/1709333/story.html">http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainme ... story.html</a><!-- m -->

The tension that binds:
Vancouver producer Bob Rock's trials and triumphs with the Tragically Hip


By Mike Devlin, Canwest News ServiceJune 18, 2009

For his second collaboration with the Tragically Hip, producer Bob Rock wanted to push the legendary band to its outer limits.

Forget about comfort zones, the Vancouver producer told the band, which performs at Vancouver's Orpheum on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. And try not to be handcuffed by the success of 2006’s triple-platinum World Container, which earned both Rock and the Hip Juno Award nominations.

Easier said than done, he would soon realize.

“I rattled their cage a little bit to get performances, but also to push them to go to different places and to try things,” Rock, 55, said from his home in Maui. “And they weren’t necessarily that willing.”

The sessions for the group’s 11th studio full-length album, We Are the Same, weren’t always rife with tension, Rock stressed, nor was the friction that did exist entirely a bad thing.

Not every project has problems, of course.

Two of Rock’s recent studio sessions — one featuring Michael Buble and Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings, the other a solo album by Ron Wood of the Rolling Stones that featured Pearl Jam’s Eddie Vedder — couldn’t have gone smoother.

But his latest ride with the Hip had some bumps, and Rock found a way to deal with them. This wasn’t Some Kind of Monster — the revealing, battle-scarred Metallica documentary that put Rock directly in middle of a band coming apart at the corners.

Rock and Hip frontman Gord Downie, now good friends, were almost always on the same page and Rock, a Victoria-reared studio whiz, dearly loves the album.

“I think it’s their finest work,” he said.

We Are the Same’s experimental, loose feel relies more on acoustic instruments and strings than the classic rock that defines the majority of the Hip’s output. That can be attributed to changing latitudes and attitudes, Rock said.

The album was recorded at the Bathouse, the Hip’s own studio on the shores of Lake Ontario, just outside the group’s native Kingston. String parts were done at the Warehouse studio in Vancouver, while Downie’s vocal tracks were recorded at Rock’s studio in Maui.

At one point it was shaping up to be a “thematic album” — Rock stops short of calling it a concept record — populated almost exclusively with people and places around Bath, Ont., where Downie owns a cottage. Rock figures a half-dozen of the songs are greatly influenced by the area.

“Lyrically, I can’t really tell you what Gord’s writing about, but it’s almost like Leonard Cohen. The words he uses are simple words, but they are so effective.”

Late in the process it was decided that other elements and emotions should be considered. Another five songs were written, four of which (Coffee Girl, Now the Struggle Has a Name, Love is a First and Frozen in My Tracks) made it to the album. The late rush came fast.

“It was almost like throwing paint against the canvas it was so quick,” Rock said.

Rock learned during the two-plus years it took to make Metallica’s St. Anger, which was chronicled in the Some Kind of Monster documentary, that perspective is everything.

Things happen after long hours in the studio that don’t make sense outside of it.

That rule applies to all of his working relationships, including the one that produced two efforts with the Hip.

“I don’t want you to get the wrong impression,” Rock said. “You could write an article and make it out like it was some weird thing, but when you make records there are a lot of feelings. Some people don’t want to be challenged. But as a producer, that’s what I do.”

© Copyright © The Vancouver Sun
Well, it’s my first post here in ages, and I wish it were a happier one...

I’m on my 5th loop through the new album, being remorsefully late in picking it up. I’ve bought every hip album either the day before (@midnight) or day of release since day for night. This one, for some reason, I did not...perhaps a sign of what was to come (in my opinion).

This album. I see flickers of brilliance, but too much detraction for me to enjoy it as much as I could. Call it 'over production', a term that has been bantered about more times in this thread than perhaps any other on this board. But first, let me preface this with this: I love when bands I listen to go in a new direction. LOVE it. Stagnation is an insult to the listener. I have lapped it up when bands like radiohead have done brilliant, direction-altering albums such as Kid A or Hail to the Thief. However, the change has to be one that moves the band toward something better. Change for change's sake is not likely to garner good results, as evidenced by the inconsistency and mediocrity on several songs on WATS.

First song, Morning Moon: The guitar hits, underwhelming and sounding muddy, as if played through half an inch of drywall. Polar opposite to something like the warm washing in of gift shop or the twangy fun of yer not the ocean. The rest of the instrumentation kicks in...And I am confused...is this Blue Rodeo or the Hip? Seriously, someone help me with this...this is more than inspiration, its *very* similar to Rodeo! And its not done particularly well. There are about 10 guitars playing. Its a wall of sound, and other than the general melody, I have difficulty picking out what’s what for large portions of the song. Along with the 10 guitars, there are also 10 people singing. Does anyone here think these backup vocals sound good? I want to hear gordie and paul (and occasionally gord) do their thing. Not 5 other people I've never heard of. And paul does even sound himself, as if he's bighting his lower lip. The cello over the breakdowns...does not sound good at all. In key, obviously, but totally out of place.

Things really can only get better from this tepid, uninspiring start.

But they don't (much) on the Second Song: Honey, Please
Sounds like 5 other songs they've done on albums such as M@W and IVL, but muddier. Less layered than Morning Moon, thankfully (though hard to imagine one could top that). But for the most part, the guitar is bland, the musicianship lost completely behind too much steel guitar and almost ukulele-sounding 4th and 5th guitars. Gord's lyrics are a bit more clever, "but when I look for words, for more going concerns, the adventure of ideas, adventure never returns". brilliant gord! but saddeningly lost in this lukewarm effort. Very pop-sounding. Like coldplay on newer efforts...attempting to sway new fans and losing the old ones.

Third Song: The Last Recluse
Ok I don't mind this one, and truthfully can't wait to hear it live. I think it will jump to life. I actually like the accordion on this (at least I think that’s what it is). Its not over the top, and adds a warmth without distracting from the song. I'll even let the Gregorian chant thing go, cause I can see them doing something fun with this live as well. Gord's lyrics are undeniably catchy...if you're not singing along with him after a few listens, well I don't know. Signs of life...thank god.

Fourth Song: Coffee Girl
That starbucks picked this as the track of the week should send alarm bells ringing. Its pop. Plain and simple. Pop fluff. "hey there coffee girl, beautiful and disaffecting, it was perfect 'til, he came along and wrecked it"....really gord? really? wow...I think this may be the worst songwriting he has ever done, as much as it pains me to say it. and now I am sure to have dreams of beating bob rock to death with a horn. at the very least, a very violent meeting of one and several of his orifices.

Fifth Song: Now the Struggle Has a Name
Steel guitar and what almost sounds like a 12 string guitar open this up. Interesting progression, not bad, but nothing earth shaking. Kinda blah about the lyrics here. They don't speak to me in any particular way. The chorus is admittedly catchy, as well. Albeit too many strings. Can let them slide on this one, I suppose. Still middle-of-the-road to me. It ends, I notice that it ends, I’m indifferent...


Fifth/Sixth/Seventh Songs: The Depression Suite
I have read plenty of arguments for and against this song, with every superlative being used in favor, and detractors claiming its bloated and wandering. I'm in the middle on this, wanting to like it more than I do, but not disliking it enough to qualify it as a failure. Again with the strings that sound out of place. I can't even visualize the recording of this...what, Gord Downie standing in front of an orchestral quintet? Ugh. Gord is inspired though, and he soars here more than on any song previous "and I’m thinking just in passing...what if this song does nothing". is that meant to be ironic?

Eighth Song: The Exact Feeling
More droning, wall-of-sound. By now its getting old. I really need a song that has less than 10 instruments playing at all times. More is less sometimes, god help me. More uninspired lyrics here...what feeling is he referring to? I may be amiss, but this is all too vague and airy to grab me. I dislike this the most of anything so far. Really don't want to hear it ever again.

Ninth Song: Queen of the Furrows
Oh thank heavens, a good one. I do like this, banjo twang and all. I can see this being about his wife or kids. Gord has some dynamic range as well, which is refreshing after some of the previous tedium. Rockin' little chorus with the slide down on the electric giving me hints of Fifty Mission Cap. There are points in this song when the acoustic sections really remind me of Ben Harper or Jack Johnson a bit. Again, I like this one. Outro is very cool too, interesting percussion...

Tenth Song: Speed River
Sigh. Not again. Very repetitive, sounding an awful lot like an amalgamation of 3 or 4 of the previous tunes. The guitar is too muddied, the percussion at times too in the mix. Awful backup singing that sounds as if its being done from the other side of an arena, "oohs" and "ahhhs" just audible enough to make you want to stick a salad fork in your ear. And then at 2:16 the tapping on the side of the drum...far too loud again. Gord's lyrics come in..."this house sounds just like a bomb hit it". unfortunately so does this song.

Eleventh Song: Frozen in My Tracks
Like the interplay of the guitars at the start, reminds me a bit of the b-side of Phantom Power. Cool licks, lush sounding. I'll forgive the backup vocals here, but I hope they sound better live. Its all a bit too "Livin' La Vida Hip". Like the rockin chorus despite this, and gord has a bit of angst on the vocals that very much reminds me of WC and the tour supporting it. I think @ 4 min, its a bit long though. 3:30 would have been enough.

Twelfth Song: Love is a First
Rock-pop. Fun. Gord's been singing these lyrics overtop other hip songs for quite awhile now. I could almost sing along on the first listen. Like when that happens Smile
The rant is fun, albeit I HATE the guitar over the second one. Is mr. baker trying to kill a cat here or play the guitar? Regardless, fun and bouncy, will be a treat live. I could see them opening with it...

Thirteenth Song: Country Day
You'll forgive me if I worry that all music in the future will come with obligatory string sections, but enough is enough already. I am thrilled when the guitars kick in and drown them out. Gord's lyrics are great...and then the backup choir kicks in and I’m turned off. at this point, I am frustrated for what could have been. I barely make it to the end of this one.



Well, there it is. I waited until I'd given it a fair few listens, and honestly my review would have been overly critical had I done it after the first listen. There are aspects that have grown on me, but to nowhere the reversal of opinion that seems to be common among the hip faithful. I am doubtful mine will ever come, to my loss I'm sure you would say.

2.5/5

I will be thanking the stars if their next album is produced by someone else. Anyone. Really…
I've stated my feelings on this album already. But after enduring a lukewarm NYC audience, then singing my ass off in Portland and Seattle I've got two more cents regarding the new stuff.

The new stuff isn't their best. For me, close but not quite. But so many of the songs from WATS play great live and are so damned fun to sing "along with" Gord. Like singing Depression Suite with Gord (and Paul and Gord S on back ups too!) for 9+ minutes is some of the most fun I've had live. Honey Please, Morning Moon, Struggle and Last Recluse also included. And instead of being mad, I feel kinda bad for the old schoolers who are too snobby to let themselves enjoy this noew stuff. While I'm having a totaly blast signing with the boys during Depression Suite, they are sulking for the next 9 minutes waitinf for NOIS, Blow, Little Bones, 100M or any other of the staples they've heard ad nauseum to be performed.

Sucks for them, 'cause I'm so ridiculously loving it!
mastodonfarm Wrote:I've stated my feelings on this album already. But after enduring a lukewarm NYC audience, then singing my ass off in Portland and Seattle I've got two more cents regarding the new stuff.

The new stuff isn't their best. For me, close but not quite. But so many of the songs from WATS play great live and are so damned fun to sing "along with" Gord. Like singing Depression Suite with Gord (and Paul and Gord S on back ups too!) for 9+ minutes is some of the most fun I've had live. Honey Please, Morning Moon, Struggle and Last Recluse also included. And instead of being mad, I feel kinda bad for the old schoolers who are too snobby to let themselves enjoy this noew stuff. While I'm having a totaly blast signing with the boys during Depression Suite, they are sulking for the next 9 minutes waitinf for NOIS, Blow, Little Bones, 100M or any other of the staples they've heard ad nauseum to be performed.
Sucks for them, 'cause I'm so ridiculously loving it!

i think you're confusing two groups of people. old schoolers are the hardcore hip fans, of which i count myself one. I'd love to hear tiger the lion or impossibilium or the drop off, not Nois, blow, little bones. etc. The people who want those songs are the fairweather fans who just listen to the band in passing...
Also, I'm in a rare vacation moment of sobriety right now and realized how snarky and judgmental MY last post came off as. To each their own, but on this tour WATS &WC fans are the fortunate ones!
You don't have to be snobby to not like something that you don't think is good.
day_for_night Wrote:I'm in the middle on this, wanting to like it more than I do, but not disliking it enough to qualify it as a failure.

That describes the whole album for me, not just Depression Suite.
daylight Wrote:You don't have to be snobby to not like something that you don't think is good.

amen. and i was there on the last tour, signing along to all of world container. i actually liked that album (and everyone prior to it), though. it is seriously depressing to me that my favorite band has put out an album i don't care for. it honestly makes me uncomfortable.