For those who are having trouble enjoying WATS, try this. I reordered the songs in a different playlist and am enjoying it much more since. Sounds more like a regular hip album.
The Exact Feeling
Love is a First
Speed River
Morning Moon
Honey, Please
Queen of the Furrows
Country Day
Now the Struggle Has a Name
Frozen in My Tracks
Coffee Girl
The Last Recluse
The Depression Suite
Hush
Thanks to fingernailsonhull's suggestion, I was able to listen to We Are the Same on Rhapsody. I gave it two solid spins and then made an attempt at a review. It's a little long-winded, but it's my first one, so bear with me. If you decide to read it, enjoy it.
We Are the Same - review
I've only been a Hip fan since I discovered them about a year and a half ago. One of the benefits of this, though, is that I had access to their entire catalog almost immediately and was able to make my own opinions without the bias of radio play. I'm a much bigger fan of their more experimental albums as opposed to their more twangy bar band albums - Trouble at the Henhouse is my favorite Hip album, with Fully Completely and Phantom Power close behind. Like a previous poster said, it sometimes takes me a few plays to appreciate an album. I didn't really like In Between Evolution at first, but now I find myself playing it often.
That said, I think World Container is by far their weakest effort, both in sound and songwriting. Sure there are strong tracks, but there are also a lot of weak tracks, and Bob Rock's over-the-top production brings the whole thing down, both the good songs and the bad. I was worried that We Are the Same would be the same. Fortunately, it's not. Unfortunately it also suffers from Rock's overproduction.
The good thing is that the songwriting is as good as any of their other albums. There aren't any weak songs on the album, period. Gord's lyrics are the best I've heard without any repetition between songs. I know he likes to repeat themes or lines in his albums, which I actually like most of the time, but none were as bad as the "Pretend/Kid's Don't Get It" travesty (A whole verse? Say it ain't so, Gord!). The lyrics are descriptive and poignant and fit the music well, a problem in recent albums where it seems like he was trying to fit as many words as possible into each measure.
The bad thing is that Rock's production brings many of these songs down. Too many strings, too many overdubs, and too much polish. The guitars get lost in the production, which is a shame since guitars are the cornerstone of the Hip sound. I do like the Hammond organs, though. I'd love to hear this whole album with more of an In Violet Light or In Between Evolution sound. I think the whole album would come alive. The songs with the sparsest production come off much better, so much so that it makes you wish the rest of the album was the same.
Now time for the songs. The album is pretty much split in two, with a softer first half and a harder second half. Both halves are strong, with production usually differentiating the stronger songs from the weaker songs. "Morning Moon" is a great leading track and one of the best on the album. The slide guitar is exceptional and the lyrics paint a beautiful picture. The production doesn't weigh down the song too much, but a little less strings would be appreciated.
The ligher half moves smoothly up to "The Depression Suite", with strong tracks and some moments where you think, "I wish they wouldn't have done that." "Honey, Please" is a good track about songwriting (a la. "My Music at Work") and I love the organ in the background. The solo section, with the mixture of slide guitar, mandolin, and organ, is a musical revelation. The background vocals are a little overdone (one of those wince moments) but it doesn't detract from a good song. "The Last Recluse" is the strongest of the first half with a great chorus melody and some of Gord's best singing on the album. Very thick production, but the organ and (I think) accordion work well together.
"Coffee Girl" would be good if it weren't for the biggest gaffe on the album - a drum track! I don't know if it's Johnny trying to sound like a drum machine, a sample of his drums, or an electronic loop, but it doesn't fit and makes it sound like a pseudo-hip-hop-pop track. It ruins an otherwise good upbeat track. And a trumpet solo? Don't they have two capable guitarists? Are there any guitars on this song? Wait, there they are, under the drum track and synth. Oh well, at least it's short. What a shame.
"Now the Struggle Has a Name" is pure anthemic rock, with the slide guitar prominent again. Not prominent enough, though, as it has to share space with a string section. Oh, the strings are under the chorus, too. Wait, there they are under the verse. Too bad it's hard to hear the great Rotovibe guitar lick over the violins. Even the guitar solo has to struggle for space. I'd love to hear this song without the strings. It would sound so much better. So much more alive. This song deserved better.
"The Depression Suite" deserves some special attention. I'm also a prog-rock fan, and I love the prog-like multi-movement structure. All three parts have a distinct sound, too, which gives it some solid prog cred. The lyrics are good (too many Gimmes in the second movement, but not too distracting) and evoke a different mood in each piece. The first movement, "The Rock", is the highlight of the piece. But wait - there are those strings again under the second chorus, drowning out Paul and Rob. The transition from "The Rock" to "NewOrleansWorld" is too string-heavy too. Is that a cello? Will they be taking a string section on tour? God I hope not. All kidding aside, this is an epic piece and deserving of its place among the best Hip songs. Luckily the song is so good that it overcomes its grandiose production. The kicker is, without that, it would be a lock for their best song ever. Damn them strings!
The second half of the album rocks much harder and starts off well with "The Exact Feeling", a rocking tune with the sparsest production on the whole album. It's got a different feel and a much different drum line than the rest of the album. I like the talk box, too. It's hard to hear (big surprise) but it's there. I hope it's more prominent live. "Queen of the Furrows" is the best song on the second half. It has great dynamics, a killer solo (finally!) and good use of mandolin. It's amazing how a song about farming can rock so much. Again, the sparser production brings this song alive. "Speed River" is a song that wouldn't be out of place on Fully Completely. Guitars take the lead (yes!) and the drums change nicely between the verse and chorus. Some of the guitars are positively Beatle-esque. Nice. Good solo, too. Nothing wrong with this song at all. Love the Hammond!
Frozen In My Tracks is where it all starts falling apart again. Perhaps it's because the last three songs were so good. The background vocals are WAY overdone to the point of being a distraction. Sounds like Motley Crue. I like the 6/8 time, though. I'm sure this song will sound amazing live. Take out the cheesy "Whoa-oh" and this is a much better song. "Love is a First" is the first release (but just try to hear in on the radio in the U.S.) and I think it's the weakest song on the second half. The lyrics are the weakest on the album - I think I had enough poppy love songs on World Container. I like how they tried to incorporate a Downie Rant into a studio recording, and it isn't as horrible as you may think. In the end, though, it comes off as some kind of power pop song. It should have been done on World Container, where it would have been one of the best songs on the album. It doesn't fit here.
Country Day is a great song let down by Rock's overproduction. It's a nice return to the softer songs of the first half and nicely brings the album to an end by tying the two halves together. Not to sound like a broken record, but there are too many strings. This would work so well as a stripped down - dare I say country-like - song.
On the whole, though, We Are the Same is a solid album and worlds better than World Container - in fact, it shows just how weak that album really was. All the songs are solid, and it didn't take multiple listens for me to enjoy it. In the end it's just too much Rock and not enough rock. I hope they translate better live, because this album deserved so much more than what it got. It's like a good glass of wine that was watered down just enough so that you can still taste it, but some of the flavors got lost.
Can I be (I think) the first to say I APPRECIATE Bob Rock's influence on this record?
Like a few people who have commented on this album stating they are "recent" Hip fans, I also did not grow up with the Hip. I was just 6 when Fully was released. My first "new" Hip album was IBE.
Now, I think we all agree that the Bob Rock we witnessed on WC was unfortunate. What were otherwise fantastic songs were IMO ruined by his over-production, drum clipping, bass-cranking etc. The songs were great enough to stand out on their own. WC was meant to be a rocker and should have been treated as such.
However, WATS is not a rocker. It is a BEAUTIFUL album. It is complimented by Bob Rock's influence. The strings and backing vocals add to the emotion of the album. Without them, we would be left with an acoustic album with nowhere near the emotional character passed on to the listener that currently exists. "Stripping down" in this case, as far as I'm concerned, would have detracted from the songs and we would be left with weaker tunes.
Morning moon, that incredible, warm intro and the backing vocals for the "yeahs" make it even warmer. Honey Please gives us phenomenal lyrics and a restrained, soothing Gord. Coffee Girl IS a drum track, it would sound lame without them. The words to this song follow the drum beat. And so what if it's a drum track...thats not necessarily a bad thing, it's a nice departure, a little different than what we're used to from this arena band. The strings on depression suite make the song, heartfelt, warm, comforting, gorgeous, epic. Gang vocals on Frozen in my Tracks isn't overdone at all...the song would be murder on the ears without them, just the thought of hearing Gord's scratchy, forced vocals in the chorus by himself makes me cringe.
I'm all for a band departing from what is their 'norm' and unlike others I don't lament them for not "returning to their roots." I welcome Bob Rock's influence on this record. This is where he shines. Strait-up rock and roll, is not. I'm absolutely loving his influence on this one.
My only wishes for this album....that "Struggle" suffers from another Bob Rockism, inane repetition, and could have been probably 2 minutes shorter. And that "Skeleton Park" was not included on the album. I didn't like it at first but it certainly grew on me...would have made a great 13-tracker.
Great reply. I agree on some of your points. Morning Moon definitely benefits from the great backing vocals and wouldn't sound the same without it, and I had 99% positive things to say about Honey, Please.
You're right, Coffee Girl is a drum machine song. I just don't like drum machines. As for the strings, I just think they sometimes detract from the songs. They're too in front in the mix and drown out the band.
As someone who likes when the Hip experiment, I'm all for them changing things up and trying new things. I just think some of the things they tried didn't work. We Are the Same sounds like no other Hip record, and it still would without some of the over production. Despite its flaws it's a great record and one they should be proud of. It's enough to make up for World Container, at least in my humble opinion.
I love these kind of discussions! Keep it coming!
i for one really loved what bob rock did with WC. you could finally hear all of every member of the band. i am learning to come to grips with the strings in WATS, but seriously, WHY NOT GUITAR/ORGAN/TIN WHISTLE!!! anything man.
cygnus8595 Wrote:Great reply. I agree on some of your points. Morning Moon definitely benefits from the great backing vocals and wouldn't sound the same without it, and I had 99% positive things to say about Honey, Please.
You're right, Coffee Girl is a drum machine song. I just don't like drum machines. As for the strings, I just think they sometimes detract from the songs. They're too in front in the mix and drown out the band.
As someone who likes when the Hip experiment, I'm all for them changing things up and trying new things. I just think some of the things they tried didn't work. We Are the Same sounds like no other Hip record, and it still would without some of the over production. Despite its flaws it's a great record and one they should be proud of. It's enough to make up for World Container, at least in my humble opinion.
I love these kind of discussions! Keep it coming!
The Truth, you speak it. Underlined for emphasis.
I also love when the Hip experiment with different textures but some of the stuff on this album is actually grating on the ears.
I think my girlfriend said it best "there are too many ingredients in this dish that just don't belong"
TG Wrote:some of the stuff on this album is actually grating on the ears.
I'm curious. Like what?
Actually I wonder what half the songs would sound like without the whole "charm" feel to it, if that makes any sense.
krip Wrote:For those who are having trouble enjoying WATS, try this. I reordered the songs in a different playlist and am enjoying it much more since. Sounds more like a regular hip album.
The Exact Feeling
Love is a First
Speed River
Morning Moon
Honey, Please
Queen of the Furrows
Country Day
Now the Struggle Has a Name
Frozen in My Tracks
Coffee Girl
The Last Recluse
The Depression Suite
Hush
Nice idea, and I like the way this flows.
krip Wrote:The Exact Feeling
Love is a First
Speed River
Morning Moon
Honey, Please
Queen of the Furrows
Country Day
Now the Struggle Has a Name
Frozen in My Tracks
Coffee Girl
The Last Recluse
The Depression Suite
Hush
I like doing this with albums. I'm not sure about The Exact Feeling as an opener, though. I'd switch Feeling up with Speed River.
The album's a masterpiece. I was disappointed at first (as I always am with new releases it seems) but now I'm in love with virtually every song. Nothing is bad on this record. Simple as that.
As a band, it's hard to win. If the Hip keep churning out Road Apples 12 times, they become AC/DC. The same songs each time out, nothing new to offer. If they change things up, well, they've gone soft. I, personally, am I fan of creativity and they've outdone themselves with WATS.
That said, anyone else bummed about the apparent decrease in Paul Langlois' and Gord Sinclair's backup vocals? It seems to me that we're hearing multiple Gord Downie on a lot of the tunes. It was similar with World Container. Would love to hear something in the same vain as Lake Fever where Paul got a couple of verses to sing. I miss Paul!
screw_ball Wrote:TG Wrote:some of the stuff on this album is actually grating on the ears.
I'm curious. Like what?
This is just to me anyway:
-the backgorund vocals on the last recluse
-all of now the struggle has a name
-that cheesy guitar solo in queen of the furrows
-just about all of of love is a first
-the background vocals on fozen
i just wonder how amazing this album would have been without some of the ridiculous production, then again maybe bob rock revitalized the band into writing better songs. I wish the Hip would go back to the bathouse set up in that loft and record all of this stuff live of the floor. Without the added bombast and cheesiness, cause that album would be fantastic.
bow_of_defeat Wrote:The album's a masterpiece. I was disappointed at first (as I always am with new releases it seems) but now I'm in love with virtually every song. Nothing is bad on this record. Simple as that.
As a band, it's hard to win. If the Hip keep churning out Road Apples 12 times, they become AC/DC. The same songs each time out, nothing new to offer. If they change things up, well, they've gone soft. I, personally, am I fan of creativity and they've outdone themselves with WATS.
That said, anyone else bummed about the apparent decrease in Paul Langlois' and Gord Sinclair's backup vocals? It seems to me that we're hearing multiple Gord Downie on a lot of the tunes. It was similar with World Container. Would love to hear something in the same vain as Lake Fever where Paul got a couple of verses to sing. I miss Paul!
Personally, I don't want Road Apples over and over again (Phantom Power, maybe :wink: ) and they can go soft all they want as long as it sounds good. Some of the stuff on WATS doesn't, in my opinion.
So after repeated listenings...yeah, it's alright, innit? There's a few clunkers on it (frozen in my tracks and the exact feeling, to name two), but a few classics, too. Love love love the last recluse and country day, and a few others are sticking in my head, too. The two things about the album that stand out to me are 1) the melancholy that permeates most of the songs and 2) this is *really* a headphones album.
Morning moon - nice little tune, rewards repeated listens
Honey, please - the production sounds like a bad springsteen outtake from the river. Don't really like it.
The last recluse - what a lovely little song. Tres canadien.
Coffee girl - I used to date a starbucks barista. I can relate. Good song.
Now the struggle has a name - love the song, hate the production.
Depression suite - it's...pretty good, I guess. Not sure why it's getting such love, though. The last of the three is my favourite, though.
The exact feeling - Hip by numbers. Meh.
Queen of the furrows - quite like this one, it's a grower.
Speed river - ditto. Hated it the first go-round, but it's grown on me.
Frozen in my tracks - worst song on the album by far.
Love is a first - something tells me we're going to be hearing this one at shows for a while, and that's not a bad thing.
Country day - Best song on the album. Second isn't really close. I get the feeling this was how the Bob Rock production was *supposed* to sound...the strings aren't overwhelming, you can hear the guitars and other instruments, and the production actually enhances the song, as opposed to drowning it out. Love it.
SRK Wrote:this is *really* a headphones album.
What does this mean? I've seen it a couple times on the boards.
SRK Wrote:Frozen in my tracks - worst song on the album by far.
Really surprised to read that. I think this may be the one with the most arena anthem/rock potential. Reminds me alot of the Drop Off. Certainly not the worst to me. Exact Feeling or even Honey Please there. It takes a few listens but its one of those growers.