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GBV Wrote:loving it on a a friday with beer. :roll:

Yes, the bar is open. Point well noted.

Here's my take of the band's latest work...

First off, there have been numerous comments to the effect of "the songs on the album should've been produced this way or that way, etc." and that's fair enough as an opinion (see the dose.ca thread). But unless such alternate versions were actually able to be produced and compared/contrasted to what has been materially produced by the band, it's just speculation and less valid as criticism.

I also share the opinion that some of the moments on album suffer from where the production took the songs, but overall I like the energy in the songs from this production for the most part. Where it really works is in "You're Not the Ocean", especially when the piano hits. It's like a signal of "Okay, we're probably in for something a little different here" only to be thrown for a bit of a loop by a return to the hard-driving guitars in "Lonely End of the Rink" and then a return of the keyboards for "In View". Great shifts AND balance there.

The biggest problem, IMO, with the moments that aren't effective is when Gord's vocals are taken too far. Shockingly (!), I'm going to make a comparison here to Christina Aguilera, who I think has an incredible voice but doesn't need to indulge in as much vocal acrobatics as her songs often feature (not that I actually have any X-tina songs, but they're hard to avoid). A few times of over-the-top vocals, sure. We get the point: you can really sing. But it doesn't need to happen song after song.

The biggest culprit of this tendency on World Container, I find, is the song "Pretend". The doubled-up vocals are different enough, and the piano-based song is different enough from other Hip songs, that some restraint on the vocal mix would've been helpful here, especially in order to hear what the band is doing differently in terms of their sound. In an interview, Gord S. talks about the piano songs freeing him up to do things on bass he wasn't previously able to do in a song. Problem for me is that this aspect is completely lost underneath the vocal treatment.

To that point, what's different in this previous comparison with Christina Aguilera (amongst other things, e.g. assless chaps, etc.) is that that Gord actually has a band with its own "voice" that can easily step up when he backs off on the mix. We've heard this happen before to excellent results in songs such as Nautical Disaster and Bobcaygeon, even Gus and Courage, where the band takes over for extended outros that don't suffer at all from not having Downie singing. Full credit goes to Robbie's lead work on many of these moments.

The other problem that I have with the album is a minor issue with the track order, but is something that can actually be addressed. As mentioned previously, when I downloaded the album from iTunes, it missed out on "In View" because it had put the song in the "In View - Single" folder rather than the "World Container" folder. So when I sat down to give the album a proper headphone listen, I was confused when "In View" didn't come on at track 3, thinking that it might actually be track 4 and I had misread where it was in the order. Then it didn't come on at track 4 either.

However, I was quite taken by "Luv(sic)" when it hit at track 4, and thought it was the perfect spot for this song (Note: metaphorically, idiots like me who obsess over track orders are like baseball fans who are fanatical about particular lineups, i.e. lead-off, 2-hole, 3-hole, cleanup, etc.). As mentioned ealier, I was debating whether "In View" or "Fly" would be best dropped from the "batting order" so as to allow "Luv(sic)" to move up to the cleanup spot.

Again, to reiterate, this is all opinion and conjecture... but in this case, only to a point. Given the wonders of modern technology and the ability to create personalized playlists (whether via iTunes or Winamp or whatever), unlike vinyl records of old, it's possible to rearrange track orders to suit one's preference. So I ended up dropping "Fly" from track 4 and let "Luv(sic)" take its spot. Problem is, I kind of like "Fly", even if it reminds me (or maybe because it reminds me) of a slower tempo "Putting Down". (SIDE NOTE: I also think the first 5 songs of M@W create one of the better openings to a Hip record, with "Stay" being one of the band's better moments).

So where to put "Fly" then? For a possible answer to this, we can look at another problem that I found with the track ordering, specifically, going from abrasive and punk-ish "The Kids Don't Get It" to the previously mentioned soft piano ballad of "Pretend". I understand there's a connection between the two songs with the repeated lyrics, but I don't think it needs to be so direct and jarring. So to smoothen the transition between the two songs, why not put "Fly" in the middle? Anyhow, that's what I ended up doing last night before giving the album another listen, and I quite enjoyed the results. There's still the problem of the vocals in "Pretend", and putting "Luv(sic)" in the fourth spot seems to beg for the song to have a longer drum count-in, but overall I like the flow of this track order better.

What's the point of all this? Well, throw out all the above analysis and what really matters here is the idea that, hey, if I don't like how this album is laid out, I do have some ability in this day and age to "fix" it in a way that works for me (or for you in your case, whatever tinkering you might think is needed or not needed at all).

While my example is only in terms of changing song orders, perhaps we're moving to a point where you'll end up being able to remix the actual songs (not just their order) by having access to individual instrument track a la Nine Inch Nails or Beck or Bowie. Who knows. But another point here is that we could actually compare such alternate versions, rather than talking about what could've been done instead but not actually having it materialize in any way (i.e. only theoretically). I think that's an interesting thing about albums today vs. albums of the past, but whatever.

Otherwise, I quite enjoy this album and its "differentness" while still staying within the same overall sound that the band has established over whatever number of albums. I'm not sure Bob Rock would be best to have produce another album, simply because it would be good to keep this album different from others in the catalogue. Rather, I think it'd be good to keep toying with different vibes on future albums. I was excited to hear what Bob Rock would bring to a Hip album, but now I'd be even more exicted to hear what a Rick Rubin or Chris Goss would do to the next batch of songs by the band.

On the controversy that is the song "World Container" and its production, I think the song is so strong it doesn't matter. I'm sure there will be a stripped down live version somewhere to satisfy those who are put off by its big sound on record. While I do find some Queen-ishness to it, its chord progression and barstool vocals remind me more of "I don't like Mondays" by the Boomtown Rats. It does, however, walk dangerously close to the land of Meatloaf and Reo Speedwagon in its grand piano sound, but I don't think the Hip could actually get to that land with a straight face even if they tried.

Big Grin

my $1.02

-jf
That's a pretty good explanation of the oversinging complaint, but I was thinking of Mariah Carey. Smile

I agree, it's worst on Pretend.
My take

Great album, 3rd best so far after DFN and FC.

Tracks in order of greatness:

Lonely End of the Rink
The Drop-Off
Luv (sic)
The Kids Don't Get It
Family Band
In View
Yer Not The Ocean
World Container
Fly
Pretend
Last Night I Dreamed...


I don't understant why "Yer Not the Ocean" is getting so much love, its a decent track but shouldn't be a single and shouldn't be the opening track(Rink should).
hahhaaa...for me I don't understand why Rink or Family band get all the love...

The Kid's don't Get it, Luv [sic], and Fly are the best songs, straight up!

also, Im conviced that Last Night would sound sick if covered by Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Divad_64 Wrote:I don't understant why "Yer Not the Ocean" is getting so much love, its a decent track but shouldn't be a single and shouldn't be the opening track(Rink should).

You can find comfort in the fact that Rink could quite possibly be the opener onmost nights on the upcoming tour. Well, judging by the Horseshoe show, any way.
Well a few more days and countless more spins. I suppose like everyone else I'm still trying to put this record in some kind of personal context. I said before that from beginning to end, for me, this is one of the most consistently great Hip albums ever. Top 5 no question and top 3 being a distinct possibility.

Before Oct. 17, my top albums of '06 were Petty's Highway Companion and the Seeger Sessions by Springsteen. Two of my favourite artists seemed to have caught their second wind and had a kick in their performance that I hadn't heard in a long time. For me, WC is right up there with both of these works and for the same reasons.

Don't get me wrong.
For me this work isn't without its flaws. I quite agree with those who feel there are times when vocally Gord D needs to back off and let the band do its thing and it's frustrating when he doesn't. Also, there are those who would say the repetition of lyrics between songs adds a continuity to to the album. I find it overused and frankly a bit of a distraction. Although I can see where IN View fits musically in the work as whole it still disappoints me that lyrically there isn't more meat on the bones.

And yes there are times when the production may be a bit intrusive, but in the end, the flaws don't bother me. Albums I consider to be the greatest rock albums of all time like the Stones Exile on the Main Street had their faults, had their weaknesses, but in the end, for me, they held a greatness that just wouldn't be beaten down. Time will tell where WC will fall for me overall. Right now I guess I'm too busy enjoying it to really worry about it.
when does it come out in the States? October 24, 2006?
Ballgame Wrote:when does it come out in the States? October 24, 2006?

Unfortunately not until sometime in '07. Just order it online and you'll get it much quicker. Try these:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tragically-Hip/dp/B000IHYB9G/sr=8-1/qid=1161457266/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/701-5794036-8518731?ie=UTF8">http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tr ... 31?ie=UTF8</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?dept%5Fid=376&pf%5Fid=375%2D169&lang=EN">http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?d ... 69&lang=EN</a><!-- m -->
direwolf74 Wrote:
Ballgame Wrote:when does it come out in the States? October 24, 2006?

Unfortunately not until sometime in '07. Just order it online and you'll get it much quicker. Try these:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tragically-Hip/dp/B000IHYB9G/sr=8-1/qid=1161457266/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/701-5794036-8518731?ie=UTF8">http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tr ... 31?ie=UTF8</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?dept%5Fid=376&pf%5Fid=375%2D169&lang=EN">http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?d ... 69&lang=EN</a><!-- m -->

Thanks! And CDN$ 11.96 is cheap. I havent been here in a while so sorry if this is a stupid question. But this is a new studio album correct? I didnt even know they were recording. Is this the one with Bob Rock?
Ballgame Wrote:
direwolf74 Wrote:
Ballgame Wrote:when does it come out in the States? October 24, 2006?

Unfortunately not until sometime in '07. Just order it online and you'll get it much quicker. Try these:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tragically-Hip/dp/B000IHYB9G/sr=8-1/qid=1161457266/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/701-5794036-8518731?ie=UTF8">http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tr ... 31?ie=UTF8</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?dept%5Fid=376&pf%5Fid=375%2D169&lang=EN">http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?d ... 69&lang=EN</a><!-- m -->

Thanks! And CDN$ 11.96 is cheap. I havent been here in a while so sorry if this is a stupid question. But this is a new studio album correct? I didnt even know they were recording. Is this the one with Bob Rock?

Yup, that's the one. The album is amazing. I've said it before in this thread, but I'll say it again. I think this is the best thing they've done since Phantom Power.
direwolf74 Wrote:
Ballgame Wrote:
direwolf74 Wrote:
Ballgame Wrote:when does it come out in the States? October 24, 2006?

Unfortunately not until sometime in '07. Just order it online and you'll get it much quicker. Try these:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tragically-Hip/dp/B000IHYB9G/sr=8-1/qid=1161457266/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/701-5794036-8518731?ie=UTF8">http://www.amazon.ca/World-Container-Tr ... 31?ie=UTF8</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?dept%5Fid=376&pf%5Fid=375%2D169&lang=EN">http://www.maplemusic.com/product.asp?d ... 69&lang=EN</a><!-- m -->

Thanks! And CDN$ 11.96 is cheap. I havent been here in a while so sorry if this is a stupid question. But this is a new studio album correct? I didnt even know they were recording. Is this the one with Bob Rock?

Yup, that's the one. The album is amazing. I've said it before in this thread, but I'll say it again. I think this is the best thing they've done since Phantom Power.


wow thats great, I cant wait to get my hands on this
Lurker, never posted. HUGE fan as all are here. What I luv:

The sound is new and fresh and whether or not it becomes yer favorite CD or not, it provides another type of CD to listen to from the band.

Personally, I love the sound and I have loved the previous two (IVL and IBE). This one certainly is the 'fasting grabbing' sound than the last few, gets ya quite quickly. Henhouse for me took the longest to 'get' but that is because it was a much calmer sound then DFN (although the live versions of Henhouse songs were much peppier). IVL is my personal favorite CD, mostly because some of the lyrics regarding relationships/friendships hit home.

We have been blessed with another great Hip CD. So much good music to choose from, we are very fortunate as fans. Which is why we all have different favorite songs, albums, closing songs, etc.

I care less what any critic thinks - especially the ones that say the Hip have been 'lost' on th past few CD's. To those critics I say "The critics don't get it...WHOOO"

I love the Kids don't get it - the "question" lyrics are classic Downie-ism.

Anyone else crazy like me - buy one CD just for the car and another for home?...lol

Great thread guys. Solid and civil discussion.

Rory - are you the one that was running the killerwhaletank website with all the live vids? If so, I sat beside you at the Concert Hall in Wpg (IVL tour), second balcony, middle, first row.
my current top 3

1. Family Band
2. Fly
3. Yer not the Ocean
pretty wicked album. The more I hear it the more I like it. IBE is my hip album though so this is the best since IBE. But I can't really rank it album wise yet. its prolly somewhere in the middle. But pretty much all hip albums are amazing to me so that's not a bad thing. Ok its 5 in the morning so im having a hard time thinking but ill try and rank the tracks.

Family Band
World Container
Yer Not The Ocean
Fly (the lyrics in particular really win me over on this one)
Luv (sic)
In View

The Drop Off
Pretend
Last Night...
The Kids...
The Lonely End...

The first group of songs in my mind are phenomenol Hip songs that pretty much stack up to any. And second group is quite good too. I think they are bettered by the album as a whole whereas the first group's songs can stand up independently. Rink's got a wicked Intro but I'm not really into it as much as most of you. Oh and I think The Drop Off is the first time I've ever really gotten a truly angry vibe from a Hip song(the music). And I'm instantly remebering Fire In The Hole but oh well this is different.
Anyways this album's a grower and I'm truly loving it. It's definetly in contension for my fav album this year.
Great album, my faves in order:

Fly
Last Night I Dreamed You Didn’T
Yer Not The Ocean
Family Band
Lonely End Of The Rink
World Container
In View
Kids Don’T Get It
Pretend
Drop Off
Luv(Sic)
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