I really hate to dredge up old topics, but I just read this thread top to bottom and feel obligated to defend Coconut Cream. That song is sardonic and jokey while anchored with a seriously kickass guitar line. It's got a lo-fi sensibility that prepares you for the Eric's Trip namedropping later in the album. Hell, I could imagine hearing it on some mid-90s mixtape between Eric's Trip, the Pixies, and Guided By Voices, while "In View" sounds like something you'd hear on the adult contemporary station. It's loud, it doesn't give a fuck whether you "get" it, and it's vital in a way most of World Container frankly isn't.
Oh, and really good on the new album news. I was starting to get worried the Hip wouldn't be punctual with their album-every-two-years deal for once.
SoylentGreg Wrote:I really hate to dredge up old topics, but I just read this thread top to bottom and feel obligated to defend Coconut Cream. That song is sardonic and jokey while anchored with a seriously kickass guitar line. It's got a lo-fi sensibility that prepares you for the Eric's Trip namedropping later in the album. Hell, I could imagine hearing it on some mid-90s mixtape between Eric's Trip, the Pixies, and Guided By Voices, while "In View" sounds like something you'd hear on the adult contemporary station. It's loud, it doesn't give a f**k whether you "get" it, and it's vital in a way most of World Container frankly isn't.
Oh, and really good on the new album news. I was starting to get worried the Hip wouldn't be punctual with their album-every-two-years deal for once.
What did someone say about coconut cream that prompted you to post that?
Are you saying the song is good or great?
He's saying that it's great because he's one of the few that understands the song and one of the most intelligent people on this site.
Oh, just a bunch of people ripping on it a few pages back.
I'm really excited to hear they're recording this one in the Bathhouse. Love the sound stuff that comes from there has.
Speaking of "Coconut Cream", I would pay a lot of money to hear a take with the original ending. Actually, if I had millions of dollars, I'd buy the entire session outtakes of all of their albums if they still exist.
screw_ball Wrote:Speaking of "Coconut Cream", I would pay a lot of money to hear a take with the original ending. Actually, if I had millions of dollars, I'd buy the entire session outtakes of all of their albums if they still exist.
I would love to hear those too. I'm always interested by how songs evolve, especially when they continue to evolve in concert after the album has been released.
When I first heard Yer Not The Ocean I was kinda disappointed by the ending. I heard the song slow down and thought for sure it would come back and kick back in for a big ending. It just made sense to me. Then I thought to myself "maybe they're saving that for the tour". I went to my first concert of the WC tour and, sadly, no big ending. Not really related but maybe it will be some day..........
I hate how people hate on Coconut Cream on this board — and only because of its lyrical content. A song about the religious right wherein people stroke each other's egos without producing anything of value. Lyrics that presage the "I made degenerate art for the religious right" of Put it Off. A song we are much more comfortable with?
The song touches on themes that were emerging in the late 90s — 24-hour news networks coming to prominence, the always-on newsflow pumped through cable into our living rooms.
In concert with "(Right) wing music" that the song references — possbily that far-right wing music designed to lure, inculcate and brainwash impressionable minds much in the same way cable news (ie CNN/Fox) calls upon us to do without thinking.
We are those "happy cats" who dig the "wing music" because we are fat, lazy slobs who can't be bothered to think and draw our own conclusions and would rather let the mainstream media, neocons, or whoever was in power do the thinking for us.
Instead, we'll just sit around letting our ego's be stroked without producing anything of intrinsic value like fat happy cats!
Until we wake up one morning and George W Bush has been in power for eight years.
How can you hate on this song?
longseason Wrote:How can you hate on this song?
Easily. I don't like the progression (if one can call it that), I don't like the lyrics, I just don't *like* it.
I'm not sure that this makes me some right-wing fat cat; just a chick who appreciates the kick-ass groove that leads into "Put It Off" over the jangly, dissonant "Coconut Cream".
And also, I voted for Kerry.
Just sayin'
-Jenna
tragicallysteve Wrote:When I first heard Yer Not The Ocean I was kinda disappointed by the ending. I heard the song slow down and thought for sure it would come back and kick back in for a big ending. It just made sense to me
Ha. I thought the
exact same thing (and still do).....
longseason Wrote:In concert with "(Right) wing music" that the song references — possbily that far-right wing music designed to lure, inculcate and brainwash impressionable minds much in the same way cable news (ie CNN/Fox) calls upon us to do without thinking.
The song doesn't reference right wing music. In fact, there is no reference to conservatism whatsoever.
It could equally be a song about mindlessless on the political left.
Or, it could be a cheap throwaway consisting of three hastily cobbled-together stanzas of nonsense, on which you're superimposing your prejudices. A musical Rorschach inkblot with no particular redeeming features, in other words -- an inkblot that you declare to be art because you hold its perceived meaning to be important.
The song itself, I would say, is music on the wing for a happy cat who likes his butterflies slow and fat: in other words, an easy throwaway for the band to cobble together as album filler.
Perhaps its a song about the songwriting process. A song, essentially, about itself. Ever think of that?
Jenna_Bird Wrote:longseason Wrote:How can you hate on this song?
Easily. I don't like the progression (if one can call it that), I don't like the lyrics, I just don't *like* it.
I'm not sure that this makes me some right-wing fat cat; just a chick who appreciates the kick-ass groove that leads into "Put It Off" over the jangly, dissonant "Coconut Cream".
DITTO. (Well, all except for the "chick" part.
)
For me, the
subject of the lyrics has
nothing to do with my dislike of the song. It's mostly the actual music I dislike.
If someone likes the riff, fine. It's your prerogative.
But I don't. It annoys me. It seems to borrow from some type of 'punk' influence, and whether that's by design or just my own inference, I just don't care for it. A few other songs in their catalogue contain the same stylistic elements - like "The Bastard", for instance - and I don't like that song, either.
Furthermore, the vocal "melody" is
incredibly irritating to me (if you can even call it a "melody" - the vocal lines for the entire song are comprised of the same TWO NOTES, except for the even more annoying "creeee-heee-heeeeam....streee-heee-heeeeeaaaam" bit). Ugh!!What's to like about
that?
Poison to my ears.
Fair enough, Jenna — but one my contentions in regards to this song is that Downie goes for the weak metaphor because it's easy. It's obvious and doesn't require a stretch to see the connection.
Skippy — I have thought that it's a song that it is, in a way, about itself. It's a song about metaphor. It's a meta-metaphor. But I think that it, lyrically, has some redeeming features.
Metaphors are powerful only because when we make the leap — only then are we impressed by their power. If we don't make that leap, well, it's because we like our butterflies — our metaphors — slow and fat. We are content to sit around all day unimpressed.
We're not impressed by this song because the metaphor is weak. However, we all know Downie to have a fairly rich tickle trunk of amazing metaphors. I can't accept that he simply 'blew it' on this song (yes, I go for the easy puns). Simply put: all metaphors are not successful universally nor even of equal power. Downie knows this.
So, ironically, Downie draws us into this song via weak metaphor, ie "this song doesn't work, I fail to see the connection, too blatant, too easy, too gross". However, the listener who dismisses the lyric begins to occupy the position of not having to work for the meaning — peeling back the layers of this 'onion' show us that there may be something more going on here. Downie is challenging us.
He's showing us that high-focus perceptions may become one kind of metaphor and low-focus another. He's making us work for meaning in this song.
Indeed, we're metaphoring all the time; language is mostly metaphor. I accept Skippy's observation that the song could "equally be a song about mindlessless on the political left". And I do accept that my reading is totally tenuous.
To reiterate — it's the level, power, and uniqueness of a metaphor that makes it stand out—and so remind us of the power of creativity.
The lyrics in Coconut Cream ask us to choose a position — to be complicit in the system by dismissing them — or to take a moment to consider if were willing to dig deeper to discover the creativity behind the song, to do the work to arrive at a connection that Downie elicits through an emotional abstraction.
Didn't some of the band members say in an interview that it is one of their worst songs?
Not sure exactly what they said but they pretty much indicated it wasn't their best effort.
Even though I disagree somewhat with your interpretation, I'm infinitely glad that you're fighting the good battle. I can still say, with full conviction, that "Coconut Cream" is the best song they have ever recorded.
longseason Wrote:Fair enough, Jenna — but one my contentions in regards to this song is that Downie goes for the weak metaphor because it's easy. It's obvious and doesn't require a stretch to see the connection.
Skippy — I have thought that it's a song that it is, in a way, about itself. It's a song about metaphor. It's a meta-metaphor. But I think that it, lyrically, has some redeeming features.
Metaphors are powerful only because when we make the leap — only then are we impressed by their power. If we don't make that leap, well, it's because we like our butterflies — our metaphors — slow and fat. We are content to sit around all day unimpressed.
We're not impressed by this song because the metaphor is weak. However, we all know Downie to have a fairly rich tickle trunk of amazing metaphors. I can't accept that he simply 'blew it' on this song (yes, I go for the easy puns). Simply put: all metaphors are not successful universally nor even of equal power. Downie knows this.
So, ironically, Downie draws us into this song via weak metaphor, ie "this song doesn't work, I fail to see the connection, too blatant, too easy, too gross". However, the listener who dismisses the lyric begins to occupy the position of not having to work for the meaning — peeling back the layers of this 'onion' show us that there may be something more going on here. Downie is challenging us.
He's showing us that high-focus perceptions may become one kind of metaphor and low-focus another. He's making us work for meaning in this song.
Indeed, we're metaphoring all the time; language is mostly metaphor. I accept Skippy's observation that the song could "equally be a song about mindlessless on the political left". And I do accept that my reading is totally tenuous.
To reiterate — it's the level, power, and uniqueness of a metaphor that makes it stand out—and so remind us of the power of creativity.
The lyrics in Coconut Cream ask us to choose a position — to be complicit in the system by dismissing them — or to take a moment to consider if were willing to dig deeper to discover the creativity behind the song, to do the work to arrive at a connection that Downie elicits through an emotional abstraction.
I gotta say, I'm impressed with the thought and effort you've put in to defend this song, but I still think it's terrible. Mostly because of the same reasons mentioned by Horrible Esthete. The song just irritates the hell out of me.