PunBB

The Darkest Canuck Wrote:hey man, the Yankees need every single bit of help we can get right now, no matter how low we gotta stoop...we will go low if it means getting back on top.

That is the *exact* reason why I find moist Yankee fans utterly deplorable.

The "whatever it takes" attitude is fine, up to a point, but clearly, you've passed it. When you encourage "bush league" tactics, it doesn't speak well for yourself or your team.

-Jenna

well, good thing you have nothing to do with our fien organization and we really don't care what your opinion on the matter is...if you're not in it to win, you shouldn't be in it...


moist Yankees fans? soundin like we got a moist cin cin fan up in here...or maybe it's the opposite and that's the problem.

The Darkest Canuck Wrote:well, good thing you have nothing to do with our fien organization

you sure have fien orginization..

yes yes, i deserved that...damn my sense of smell...errrr, spell!

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:

j-monster Wrote:Anyone see A-Fraud's latest bout of poor sportsmanship? Yelling at the third baseman to confuse him and cause him to move out of the way from catching an easy pop fly? Granted the kid should have ignored it and made the play but still.

I have absolutely no problem with that. It's just smart baseball. There's no rule against it.

Baseball has long been a game where players are constantly trying to deceive / rattle / confuse their opponents, and pushing the bounds of the rules in the name of competition. Stealing signs, hiding the ball, shouting "go" when a runner should tag, acting as if a trapped ball was caught, etc. -- all of these things have become part of the fabric of the game.

Even his glove-slap in the 2004 postseason was fine by me; at least he tried something to avoid a sure out. I want to see a player do all he can in the heat of the moment to help his team win, and if it violates a rule, there are 4 umps there to catch it.

For me, the things that cross the line are blatant pre-meditated attempts at outright cheating, like doctoring the baseball (Gaylord Perry), corking your bat (Sammy Sosa), and juicing-up (Baroid).

Personally, I don't understand why A-rod is so despised (aside from being a Yank-me, of course, but that's nothing personal -- it's something that goes with putting on pinstripes). He's a fantastic talent, he works hard, he's a team player, and seems to do whatever he can to help his team win. I don't ever seem to hear him trashing teammates or other players, he seems to own his mistakes, and his accomplishments appear to be free of artificial influence.

Personally, I think he's despised for a number of reasons, and rightfully so. His attitude could use adjusting as he comes off as a baby most of the time. He's a prima donna. I've heard him numerous times try to take the blame off of himself when he's struggling and put it on his teammates. He has failed consintently in the playoffs. Like it or not, he has a target on his back because he's paid so much and has delivered so little when it matters most.

How about Sizemore's catch in Thursday's game against Detroit? hock:

How about a five run 9th inning to beat the Tigers? hock:

tigerthelion Wrote:Personally, I think he's despised for a number of reasons, and rightfully so. His attitude could use adjusting as he comes off as a baby most of the time. He's a prima donna.

Again, I don't know where this perception comes from. I am not a Yankee fan -- I'm a fan of a Reds team that languishes year in and year out in its so-called "small market status"; you'd think if anyone would be an A-Rod hater, it'd me someone like me. But haven't seen anything to make me think he's a "baby", or has a bad attitude. Maybe I'm just not jealous enough that he plays for NY instead of the Reds.

tigerthelion Wrote:I've heard him numerous times try to take the blame off of himself when he's struggling and put it on his teammates.

You must be privy to quotes, articles, and soundbytes that I have not seen or heard. I have seen shots levied at him out of some apparent form of juvenile envy, but nothing from a legitimate "baseball" standpoint....

tigerthelion Wrote:He has failed consintently in the playoffs.

I'd consider that statement to be false.

Career playoff statistics:

.........AB.....H.....R.....HR.....RBI.....AVG.....OPS

LDS: 78 .. 20 ... 7 .... 2 ...... 6 ... .256 .... .723
LCS: 54 .. 17 .. 12 ... 4 ..... 12 .. .315 .... .1042

Doesn't look to me like he's "failed consintently in the playoffs"; his LCS numbers are better than his career averages, which is pretty damn good, given HIS astounding career thus far. His LDS numbers are admittely poor....so I think it would be much more accurate to say that "his postseason performance has been inconsistent".

tigerthelion Wrote:Like it or not, he has a target on his back because he's paid so much and has delivered so little when it matters most.

Why would anyone aside from Steinbrenner and the NY Yankee / Texas Rangers front offices give two shits about what A-Rod gets paid? Whether you think he deserves the $$$$ or not, why would you criticize a player because of the contract he has negotiated with his employer? And why, unless you're a Yankee fan, would it concern you whether or not the Yankees are getting an adequate return on their investment? Again, the only reason I can fathom is sheer envy or sour grapes, and both are childish.

And in terms of your claim that he has "and has delivered so little when it matters most", here are some stats for his last 3 seasons that say otherwise:

............................................AB.......H.......HR.......RBI.......AVG.......OPS

SEPT & OCT: ..................... 221 .... 67 .... 12 ..... 53 ..... .303 ..... .995
Bases Loaded: .................... 47 .... 18 ...... 3 ..... 55 ..... .383 .... .1082
Man on 3rd, <2 out: ........... 102 .... 30 ..... 5 ...... 80 ..... .294 .... .866
Men On, 2 out: ................... 352 .... 96 .... 22 .... 117 .... .273 .... .899
Runners On: ...................... 889 .... 265 ... 58 .... 296 .... .298 .... .931
Scoring Position ................. 532 .... 150 ... 27 .... 228 .... .282 .... .878
Scoring Pos, 2 out .............. 234 .... 65 .... 13 ..... 94 ..... .278 .... .904

I suppose these aren't good enough....because his salary said so?

And on that note, show me a fan who would rather have anyone other than A-Rod playing 3B for their team for the next 5 years (from a production standpoint), and I'll show you a fool who can't separate his hangups from his ability to recognize one of, if not THE greatest infield talent in the history of baseball.

...you forgot to mention his game winning homer last night! hehe

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:

tigerthelion Wrote:Personally, I think he's despised for a number of reasons, and rightfully so. His attitude could use adjusting as he comes off as a baby most of the time. He's a prima donna.

Again, I don't know where this perception comes from. I am not a Yankee fan -- I'm a fan of a Reds team that languishes year in and year out in its so-called "small market status"; you'd think if anyone would be an A-Rod hater, it'd me someone like me. But haven't seen anything to make me think he's a "baby", or has a bad attitude. Maybe I'm just not jealous enough that he plays for NY instead of the Reds.

tigerthelion Wrote:I've heard him numerous times try to take the blame off of himself when he's struggling and put it on his teammates.

You must be privy to quotes, articles, and soundbytes that I have not seen or heard. I have seen shots levied at him out of some apparent form of juvenile envy, but nothing from a legitimate "baseball" standpoint....

tigerthelion Wrote:He has failed consintently in the playoffs.

I'd consider that statement to be false.

Career playoff statistics:

.........AB.....H.....R.....HR.....RBI.....AVG.....OPS

LDS: 78 .. 20 ... 7 .... 2 ...... 6 ... .256 .... .723
LCS: 54 .. 17 .. 12 ... 4 ..... 12 .. .315 .... .1042

Doesn't look to me like he's "failed consintently in the playoffs"; his LCS numbers are better than his career averages, which is pretty damn good, given HIS astounding career thus far. His LDS numbers are admittely poor....so I think it would be much more accurate to say that "his postseason performance has been inconsistent".

tigerthelion Wrote:Like it or not, he has a target on his back because he's paid so much and has delivered so little when it matters most.

Why would anyone aside from Steinbrenner and the NY Yankee / Texas Rangers front offices give two shits about what A-Rod gets paid? Whether you think he deserves the $$$$ or not, why would you criticize a player because of the contract he has negotiated with his employer? And why, unless you're a Yankee fan, would it concern you whether or not the Yankees are getting an adequate return on their investment? Again, the only reason I can fathom is sheer envy or sour grapes, and both are childish.

And in terms of your claim that he has "and has delivered so little when it matters most", here are some stats for his last 3 seasons that say otherwise:

............................................AB.......H.......HR.......RBI.......AVG.......OPS

SEPT & OCT: ..................... 221 .... 67 .... 12 ..... 53 ..... .303 ..... .995
Bases Loaded: .................... 47 .... 18 ...... 3 ..... 55 ..... .383 .... .1082
Man on 3rd, <2 out: ........... 102 .... 30 ..... 5 ...... 80 ..... .294 .... .866
Men On, 2 out: ................... 352 .... 96 .... 22 .... 117 .... .273 .... .899
Runners On: ...................... 889 .... 265 ... 58 .... 296 .... .298 .... .931
Scoring Position ................. 532 .... 150 ... 27 .... 228 .... .282 .... .878
Scoring Pos, 2 out .............. 234 .... 65 .... 13 ..... 94 ..... .278 .... .904

I suppose these aren't good enough....because his salary said so?

And on that note, show me a fan who would rather have anyone other than A-Rod playing 3B for their team for the next 5 years (from a production standpoint), and I'll show you a fool who can't separate his hangups from his ability to recognize one of, if not THE greatest infield talent in the history of baseball.

I have no envy of A-Rod but from the sounds of it, you might. You mentioned jealousy and envy as reasons why people don't care for A-Rod. You don't know shit about why I am or am not a fan of any player. Jealousy never enters the equation for me.

Money does matter to most fans of baseball. If you don't believe that his big contract gets him hate from a lot of fans, then you're the most naive person alive. Why should I care? I don't really care other than pointing out that he's overpaid. Of course, I think most athletes are overpaid so I don't have ill feeling towards A-Rod just based on his salary. At least he deserves his salary more than a guy like Clemens.


A-Rod has disappointed in the playoffs. Period.

A-Rod has ridiculous talent. I would never say otherwise. Talent alone isn't enough sometimes for fans to gravitate toward a player. A-Rod is one of the best players of his generation and might possibly challenge the HR record before all is said and done. However, I'm still not a fan of his and it has nothing to do with jealousy or envy. I know what I've seen on television and I know what I've read in newspapers about A-Rod. I'm not talking about a sports writer's opinion of him, but I'm talking about direct quotes from A-Rod. I don't care for his attitude and I don't care for his bushleague tactics on the field. If you, or anyone, has a different opinion than me and doesn't care about his actions, all power to you.

How dare you use facts to support your argument Esthete! That is widely frowned upon at this forum.

Personally, I don't care for A-Fraud because of everything surrounding his time with Texas. He left a first place Seattle franchise to play for the last place Rangers, claiming that he wanted to help turn the Rangers into a winner. Then he demanded a trade from the Rangers three years into his ten year deal, claiming that he didn't like the direction the franchise was heading in, which is kind of funny given that HE was the franchise and he had no problem with that direction when he signed on the dotted line.

Oh, look, I found something on A-Rod:

"[Mike] Mussina doesn't get hammered at all," he told SI. "He's making a boatload of money. Giambi's making [$20.4 million], which is fine and dandy, but it seems those guys get a pass. When people write [bad things] about me, I don't know if it's [because] I'm good-looking, I'm biracial, I make the most money, I play on the most popular team ..."

If that's not taking shots at teammates while trying to deflect the blame, I don't know what is. :rambo: A-Rod playing the victim while saying the only reason he is attacked is because of his looks or race; that's pretty damn sad and juvenile.




"The tone I took to Alex is basically being honest with himself. And what I meant by that was, he had a tough series in Boston ... and I like to watch body language, he was making it appear like it was OK," Torre said.

I know, this isn't a quote from A-Rod, but it's a quote from his manager. Torre isn't usually a guy to lie about his feelings IMO.

cferneyh Wrote:How are you use facts to support your argument Esthete! That is widely frowned upon at this forum.

Personally, I don't care for A-Fraud because of everything surrounding his time with Texas. He left a first place Seattle franchise to play for the last place Rangers, claiming that he wanted to help turn the Rangers into a winner. Then he demanded a trade from the Rangers three years into his ten year deal, claiming that he didn't like the direction the franchise was heading in, which is kind of funny given that HE was the franchise and he had no problem with that direction when he signed on the dotted line.

Stats are everything to some people. It's nice to watch a game or two every once in a while though. Sometimes stats can be misleading, but some people don't understand that. :? :? :?

tigerthelion Wrote:

cferneyh Wrote:How are you use facts to support your argument Esthete! That is widely frowned upon at this forum.

Personally, I don't care for A-Fraud because of everything surrounding his time with Texas. He left a first place Seattle franchise to play for the last place Rangers, claiming that he wanted to help turn the Rangers into a winner. Then he demanded a trade from the Rangers three years into his ten year deal, claiming that he didn't like the direction the franchise was heading in, which is kind of funny given that HE was the franchise and he had no problem with that direction when he signed on the dotted line.

Stats are everything to some people. It's nice to watch a game or two every once in a while though. Sometimes stats can be misleading, but some people don't understand that. :? :? :?

Yeah, I know tiger....stats are misleading when they run counter to your opinion.

cferneyh Wrote:

tigerthelion Wrote:

cferneyh Wrote:How are you use facts to support your argument Esthete! That is widely frowned upon at this forum.

Personally, I don't care for A-Fraud because of everything surrounding his time with Texas. He left a first place Seattle franchise to play for the last place Rangers, claiming that he wanted to help turn the Rangers into a winner. Then he demanded a trade from the Rangers three years into his ten year deal, claiming that he didn't like the direction the franchise was heading in, which is kind of funny given that HE was the franchise and he had no problem with that direction when he signed on the dotted line.

Stats are everything to some people. It's nice to watch a game or two every once in a while though. Sometimes stats can be misleading, but some people don't understand that. :? :? :?

Yeah, I know tiger....stats are misleading when they run counter to your opinion.

No, stats are misleading when people like you use them to support arguments without actually watching games. Players can hit three run homers in blowout games that inflate their stats. You wouldn't know about that though. As long as you read the boxstats every morning, you're good. hock:

Some more of A-Rod's tactics:

With one out in the eighth and the bases loaded, Jorge Posada hit a ground ball to third baseman Mike Lowell , who fielded the ball and fired to Pedroia for the force on A-Rod at second base. Pedroia came across the bag and threw to first base, just barely missing pulling off the double play, and was stunned when Rodriguez slid on the infield side of the base and threw his left elbow into his left side as he popped out of the slide.

Ok, fine, since stats are the fashionable thing to do:

A-Rod in his time with the NY Yankees

Postseason Stats:


Games -- 20
At Bats -- 79
Hits -- 19
Average -- .241
RBI -- 8




Sounds like he's been a real stud in the playoffs for the Yankees.

Oh yeah, he led all AL third baseman in errors last season with 24 also.