PunBB

fingernailsonhull Wrote:

cferneyh Wrote:I think the Rick Ankiel story has been pretty damn cool. Talk about being a natural athlete.

No joke. Being a relative newbie to the city, I didn't know what everyone was so excited about...and then I learned his story. What a comeback - and moving from the mound to right field. Man. And he's been a homerun machine since coming back up. What a fantastic story.

Yeah, despite all the focus on #756 et al., there have been some great stories in baseball this year... Ankiel, Josh Hamilton in Cincy, some great rookies coming up like Tim Lincecum, Hunter Pence, Ryan Braun in Milwaukee (I know what you mean VLH, I picked Braun up off the waiver wire in my pool in late May, the kid's been flat out SICK, he and a couple other guys have kept my team afloat the last few months). Overall baseball looks in pretty good shape.

I do have to agree with the Jays fans who have spoken up, it's been a frustrating year watching them. There have been surprise good-news stories on the pitching side (Marcum, McGowan, Litsch, Accardo), but the hitting sometimes has been atrocious! So often if they don't hit home runs or get the big inning, they don't score enough to win... very poor situational hitting, a lot of times not getting the timely hit to score... incredibly frustrating to watch because the talent on paper is there to have contended this year. I didn't agree with the fire Gibbons crowd at first but I'm starting to get turned around on this subject. I think he's a little too laid back at times, and sometimes the team's performance and attitude reflects that. And JP is on a short leash as well. Oh well, maybe next year??????????

grimes Wrote:I agree with you about Wang not being anything too special, but with respect to the importance of the strikeout, I point to Roy Halladay as evidence that you don't need to rely on the K to be a great pitcher. Tonight for example, he threw 99 pitches for a complete game, 5-hitter, in the Jays' 4-1 win over the Angels. He only struck out two, with 13 ground outs, and 11 fly outs, which is pretty much business as usual for him.

To be accurate, "business as usual" for Halladay is fanning about 6 batters per 9 innings.

But I see your point.

In all fairness, I never said that one needs to rely on the K to be a great pitcher. I consider Halladay to be a great pitcher, and I consider Maddux, Glavine, and Hudson to be great pitchers over the course of their careers, and none of 'em are high-K guys. That said, they all have career K/9 numbers over 5.0 . You're pretty much guaranteed NOT to be considered one of the game's elite if you can't strikeout at least 20% of the hitters you face. And if you're going to hover around that 5 to 6 Ks per nine innings level, you better have pinpoint control, some nasty off speed pitches, and pitch exclusively down in the zone.

My point was that a guy like Wang might appear to be one of the better pitchers in the game if you look only at his career W/L record and last year's ERA, but once you consider some other key stats (run support, K/9, K/BB, opponent BA), it's rather evident that without one of the best supporting casts that money can buy, he is mediocre at best.

all that matters is winning...and Wang is a proven winner...should be able to notch his 18th W today, and i would think he's gotta be the front runner for the AL Cy Young award this year...

but how bout that A-ROD!?!?!?!?!?


good god, this guy's AMAZING, i mean, we all knew that already, but he's having one helluva season this year...launched number 52 today...

y'know, i don't even mind if Boston win the division this year, as long as the Yankees can win the wildcard and make the playoffs, that's all they need, a chance...i just hope Jeter's "stiffness" in his leg from yesterday isn't anything serious...other than that i'm loving everythign about the club right now...well, almost everything, Mussina scares the shit out of me everytime he takes the mound now...but ya, other than his fizzling out, and the Sox 6.5 division lead, everything is going according to plan for the bombers...Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba have all ben rather pleasant surprizes too.

Ankiel is a great story. Especially with him being a guy who took performance enhancing substances in the recent past. He's a real standup guy and a real clean player.

A-Rod has pretty much locked up the MVP award. He's been on a tear.

I dont think its that big of a deal, he did it 3 years ago before he was even an outfielder and it wasn't even steroids it was HGH. At the time he did it it wasn't even banned by MLB.

The Darkest Canuck Wrote:all that matters is winning...and Wang is a proven winner...should be able to notch his 18th W today, and i would think he's gotta be the front runner for the AL Cy Young award this year...

but how bout that A-ROD!?!?!?!?!?


good god, this guy's AMAZING, i mean, we all knew that already, but he's having one helluva season this year...launched number 52 today...

y'know, i don't even mind if Boston win the division this year, as long as the Yankees can win the wildcard and make the playoffs, that's all they need, a chance...i just hope Jeter's "stiffness" in his leg from yesterday isn't anything serious...other than that i'm loving everythign about the club right now...well, almost everything, Mussina scares the shit out of me everytime he takes the mound now...but ya, other than his fizzling out, and the Sox 6.5 division lead, everything is going according to plan for the bombers...Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba have all ben rather pleasant surprizes too.

:roll: :roll:

Sabathia has 17 wins, gets less run support, has a lower ERA, has pitched way more innings, has more K's, has more complete games. If anything, Wang should be 4th or 5th on the list of deserving candidates. Sabathia, Beckett, Escobar are all more deserving as of today.

tigerthelion Wrote:

The Darkest Canuck Wrote:all that matters is winning...and Wang is a proven winner...should be able to notch his 18th W today, and i would think he's gotta be the front runner for the AL Cy Young award this year...

but how bout that A-ROD!?!?!?!?!?


good god, this guy's AMAZING, i mean, we all knew that already, but he's having one helluva season this year...launched number 52 today...

y'know, i don't even mind if Boston win the division this year, as long as the Yankees can win the wildcard and make the playoffs, that's all they need, a chance...i just hope Jeter's "stiffness" in his leg from yesterday isn't anything serious...other than that i'm loving everythign about the club right now...well, almost everything, Mussina scares the shit out of me everytime he takes the mound now...but ya, other than his fizzling out, and the Sox 6.5 division lead, everything is going according to plan for the bombers...Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba have all ben rather pleasant surprizes too.

:roll: :roll:

Sabathia has 17 wins, gets less run support, has a lower ERA, has pitched way more innings, has more K's, has more complete games. If anything, Wang should be 4th or 5th on the list of deserving candidates. Sabathia, Beckett, Escobar are all more deserving as of today.

I highly agree with Sabathia being the most deserving for Cy Young this year; he has been the rock solid ace for the Indians. Carmona has been very good, but CC can go deeper in the game with less run support than Carmona.

Atta go Jays! What a joke. Another ninth inning meltdown. Why do I even watch?

it is horrible, halladay throws a gem and they lose, how do they expect this guy to ever want to stay with the jays

clarke Wrote:it is horrible, halladay throws a gem and they lose, how do they expect this guy to ever want to stay with the jays

that was absolutley atrocious, especially after Johnny Mac turned one of the greatest double plays of the entire season. I said to my buddy when they pulled Halladay that it was a mistake, nothing new for the Jays this year though.

The Darkest Canuck Wrote:all that matters is winning...and Wang is a proven winner...should be able to notch his 18th W today, and i would think he's gotta be the front runner for the AL Cy Young award this year...

I see you are still failing to grasp that there is way more to elite pitching than racking up "wins". All that matters for the team is winning, and yes, Wang often gives his team the oppoortunity to win when he takes the ball -- which does count for something.

But as you will discover, the Cy Young winner will not be determined by "number of wins" alone.

Which pitcher is having a better season:

-------------------IP-----Record----RS-----ERA---WHIP---QS--CG--K/BB----K/9----BAA-------------

Pitcher #1:---180.2----18-6----7.12---3.69----1.27----18---1---1.75---4.53---.262
Pitcher #2:---220.0----17-7----5.69---3.15----1.14----23---4---5.61---7.57---.260

Look at how much more run support #1 gets compared to #2, but has only one more winn....look at how many more strikeouts per walk #2 has....look at how many fewer walks and hits #2 allows per IP.....look how many more quality starts #2 has......

Any attempt to put #1's season on the same level of #2's is LAUGHABLE.
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#1 = Chein-Ming Wang
#2 = C.C. Sabathia

Cy Young isn't what Wang's after anyway,

you sure you guys like baseball? this thread has been pretty dormant for most of this really really exciting final stretch of the regular season...

It was sure nice to see the Tribe sweep the Tigers and all but lock up the Central! :thumb: :thumb:

what a crazy game between the Yankees and Jays last night...sucked to see the Yankees lose, but hey, the way they came back to tie it up with 2 out in the bottom of the 9th, down by 4, was MIGHTY impressive, and encouraging, even though they didn't manage to get the W...had it not been for Doc H, i think they would've.