PunBB

hock:

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:While this statement may not exactly be ‘innocuous’, it seems a little absurd to me that it would incite a reaction of this proportion. The focus of that post concentrated on the effrontery I feel is demonstrated when group of artists is disparaged by their own fans for something as trivial as lax public-relations. Even more perplexing and astonishingly paradoxical is the fact that the criticism is directed at the lack of information released regarding forthcoming material, when it is the material itself, once polished and complete, which has garnered the respect and admiration of these fans in the first place. My claim was that this outcry constitutes a show of irreverence, and is a claim I feel is legitimate. The now infamous “cut” in the closing sentence of that post was simply my way of expressing how I am not necessarily surprised at such irreverence, since I have witnessed similar exhibitions of disrespect from fans of the band on many other occasions.

It seems a little absurd to you that such a reaction has occured , because you slammed Hip fans and board members ? It wasn't the point you were trying to make that incited this reaction, but the obvious inflammatory and generalizing comments . Who made you judge and jury of all ? Who are you to question fans loyalty when they are the ones discussing the music they love so much, or lack of information on it ? Shall every artist be without criticism ? "My claim was that this outcry constitutes a show of irreverence " Or it is an obvious sign of interest, showing interest is no crime , we all buy the Albums , go to the shows, buy the merchandise , but I don't think questioning fans loyalty for questioning the lack information on the upcoming album is fair. It does not occur out of irreverance but out of passion . Slamming hipfans for showing interest at the forthcoming installment from the Hip, whether it be positive or negative might be considered irreverent.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:To the delight of you all, I’m sure, I will ‘let it go’ after this submittal, but not before I address this issue of “overzealous patriotism” and “obnoxious concert behavior” one final time, since it is obviously a subject of utter hyper-sensitivity, and something that is being overly de-emphasized in this discussion. I agree with several members’ statements that obnoxious and rowdy behavior does occur and should be expected at concerts everywhere, but there is a huge difference between the unruly behavior common to the concert environment and flat-out disrespect and irreverence shown towards fellow patrons and a nation in which you are a guest. I’ve seen a shitload of concerts in my lifetime - literally hundreds - in venues ranging from intimate clubs to stadiums, featuring acts of varying popularity, nationality, and style, and I must say that this phenomenon of rabid Canadian ultra-patriotism I’ve witnessed at virtually every Hip show I’ve attended is something I have never experienced anywhere else.

You may think that there is nothing wrong with it, but I tend to think that there just might be. I don’t understand it, and I’ve quit trying to figure it out. It was absent from the three Neil Young concerts I attended here in the States, and he’s Canadian. I saw none of it at the two Rush shows I attended here, and they’re Canadian. And you can bet there was no trace of it at the Gordon Lightfoot performances I’ve seen in this country, and he is a Canadian legend and is idolized by The Hip themselves. So what, exactly, is the deal? Truth be told, it’s really not an issue at well-attended shows, because I can simply ignore it. But some of the more intimate Hip shows I’ve attended (the best kind to see) were practically ruined by the incredible distraction it created.

Maybe I can breath a little insight into this Phenomenon, being a Canadian I will speak my view. I have read several times that Americans are confused/disgusted/dumbfounded at this flag waving behaviour. I have never seen a Hip show down south , but I'll hazard a guess many are Ex-Pats. Keeping your identity in another country and celebrating it, will be exercised with other Canadians in a few select settings, gatherings , hockey games, or in this case a rock concert . Imagine a band that represesents what you love about your country , a band that refers to Canada regularly in it's music and refuses to pander to the commercial element of the music business . They are the biggest Canadian Band, bar none. These gatherings, I would think would be one of the few places to express your heritage in an atmosphere of music and partying, a showing of Nationalistic pride and a brief grasp of what was once in your life and still is inside the heart . Add alcohol to this and there will be obnoxiousness, regardless if it's in Ohio or Ontario. Complete release of pride with a misguided air of arrogance and drunken stupidity. This is not to excuse it , but simply to help explain it . While you may be there to experience a band who's music you love and appreciate, to others there it may go a whole lot deeper than the music, past it, into fanatasizm born out of suppressed patriotism as opposed to the more American proliferated patriotism . This is a small slice of one part of it, in my opinion. As for this not occuring at Neil Young, Gordon Lightfoot and Rush concerts...Well Lightfoot is 65 or 66 years old , his demographic consists of much older crowd into the folk scene. I have yet to hear Bitter Green or Early Morning Rain played at a hockey game and I have never seen crowd surfing or flag waving at a folk gathering either. Rush and Neil Young also have an older demographic. The Hips older material , Blow, New O, 50 Mission Cap, Fireworks etc etc...are played here regularly everyday on rock stations, the youth today are still influenced by the older more rocked out Hip, as compared to IVL, this also lends to the frenzied flag waving patrons (age factor). Finally I think Anti Americanism plays a part in this . Incidents such as Butchering the National Anthem, hanging the Flag Upside Down ,Canadian NHL teams moving south, having an American ref call 8 consecutive penalties in an Olympic Gold Medal Hockey Game etc..etc.. These may seem trivial in the grand scheme of things(and they are) , but they all add to the sentiment. I will not delve into the political and societal differences which are great as well. It all adds to a "us vs them" attitude. Canadians in general (not all) know a vast amount more about Americans than Americans know of Canadians. I speak of the majority of Americans , not all obviously. Maybe this help shed a little light on flag waving.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing an occassional update, I am not gonna jump ship and forfeit my allegiance because of a lack of action on the Hip's part to quench or even ackowledge such a thirst . I will also not hold back my opinion because in another eyes it may be considered irreverent. Why should such talk be stifled on a site dedicated to The Tragically Hip? I don't take it too seriously, and I will try not to impose my ideals of what makes a true fan on others or question their loyalty simply due to negative critisizm of their favourite band .

Mark

I am not going to go into a big ordeal on this..I am simply going to post the lyrics from "Territories" Rush: This is how I feel..we are all equals. I dont think any flags, signs, anything should be used at concerts, etc. I am sick of being separated into countries..can't we all just unite as one for once??

RUSH LYRICS

"Territories"

I see the Middle Kingdom between Heaven and Earth
Like the Chinese call the country of their birth
We all figure that our homes are set above
Other people than the ones we know and love
In every place with a name
They play the same territorial game
Hiding behind the lines
Sending up warning signs

The whole wide world
An endless universe
Yet we keep looking through
The eyeglass in reverse
Don't feed the people
But we feed the machines
Can't really feel
What international means
In different circles, we keep holding our ground
In different circles, we keep spinning round and round

We see so many tribes overrun and undermined
While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind
Better people...better food...and better beer...
Why move around the world when Eden was so near?
The bosses get talking so tough
And if that wasn't evil enough
We get the drunken and passionate pride
Of the citizens along for the ride

They shoot without shame
In the name of a piece of dirt
For a change of accent
Or the color of your shirt
Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colorful rag is unfurled

Obviously with the last paragraph of lyrics being those that stand out to me...

I don't think they "owe" us anything. Yes we pay to see them, buy their album, rather than download it etc.

Like Gord Downie said, and maybe it's a suggstion:

"you want the hunt but not the capture" (that's me)

Anticipation, for me, is better than the capture. Once I get the album, see them live, there's down time, then I get excited for the next album. If I knew or heard a preview, the value would go down, for me anyways

Mountain Hip

I find it quite entertaining how posts get more and more educated as the heat is turned up. If you were to refer to my post about eating disgusting food in Non Tragically Hip Discussion you'll notice the largest and most 'educated' word is 'the'. But then in a post such as this everyone seems to kick up their intelligence a notch or two before posting. Its almost as if they believe they may 'win' the argument by using words that are not heard in everyday speaking. interesting. lol.

HIPpyLettuce Wrote:I find it quite entertaining how posts get more and more educated as the heat is turned up. If you were to refer to my post about eating disgusting food in Non Tragically Hip Discussion you'll notice the largest and most 'educated' word is 'the'. But then in a post such as this everyone seems to kick up their intelligence a notch or two before posting. Its almost as if they believe they may 'win' the argument by using words that are not heard in everyday speaking. interesting. lol.

:lol: How true.

The Hip rule...... do I win the argument?? :mrgreen:

Northman Wrote:The Hip rule...... do I win the argument?? :mrgreen:

No...you have to use a bigger word than rule remember... :lol: :lol:

The Hip mollify my insatiable concupiscence for a daily dram of profoundly refulgent doggerel.

Now surely I must win the argument

Holy crap! Grooveless wins the arguement, no question...wow I had to consult my thesarus to figure out what he meant

grooveless touque Wrote:The Hip mollify my insatiable concupiscence for a daily dram of profoundly refulgent doggerel.

Now surely I must win the argument

Yep I think you got it! :thumb:
Now lets all crown grooveless...

wow grooveless you am big words lol

Hey mark, i'm in Fredericton too! ':thumb:'

Guys, what if the Hip have something really great planned and they want to surprise us... I'm just being hopefull I guess.

I am so smart! I am so smart! S-M-R-T! I mean S-M-A-R-T!

Homer says it better than I ever could :lol:

...flaming diploma and all...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

M.
(still trying to figure out what exactly all this has to do with the "new album"... :lol: )