PunBB

Would the last Hipfan to leave the thread please turn off the rhetoric.

8)

you get morons at every show. bottom line. doesnt matter the band. doesnt matter the country. it happens.

if it were an american waving a flag in ohio no americans would care. i dont support waving flags at concerts, but you have to think about that. and why is is so bad for a canadian to wave a flag in ohio? is that a threat to national security? amber alert?.........

just to let you know the amber alert is about missing children which there is one in flordia right now it is on video say it last night on the news
11yr old is grabbed by the arm and dragged away it is on a security camera from a store

Ron

beanmedic Wrote:you get morons at every show. bottom line. doesnt matter the band. doesnt matter the country. it happens.

if it were an american waving a flag in ohio no americans would care. i dont support waving flags at concerts, but you have to think about that. and why is is so bad for a canadian to wave a flag in ohio? is that a threat to national security? amber alert?.........

That's right beanmedic but they do care when it's a Canadian flag.
I just wanted to add to that I think most of us here, I know I really dislike the loud and rowdy ones, who jump in the air about every half a second, (I never did understand that) blocking my view of the band.
Also horrible, I have to point out that I had a pretty bad experience with American fans at a hip show I attended in Point Clark. So really I guess it does work both ways.
Plus I don't care for nor would I ever do it, but I can see how there are Canadian flags waved at hip shows. They are a truly Canadian band. I really felt like Americans were getting mad at all the Canadian presence at the Point Clark show. I mean what do they expect. Did they know that they where there to see the hip? Not that American fans are any less dedicated. I just was shocked at all the USA USA chants being screamed out. So yes horrible I see your point with the annoying Canadian fans, however like I say it does work both ways.

ron Wrote:just to let you know the amber alert is about missing children which there is one in flordia right now it is on video say it last night on the news
11yr old is grabbed by the arm and dragged away it is on a security camera from a store

Ron

i was not trying to make light of a system that deals with missing children. i was trying to refer to the scale in this picture, but with so many alerts these days my memory got a little muddy.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:Once, at a show in Cleveland, “The Star Spangled Banner” was played before the band took stage, which the “migrants” drowned out by bellowing the lyrics to the Canadian anthem. This sort of tasteless disrespect and irreverence is what I was referring to, and the lack of appreciation and strange sense of entitlement that some of you show towards the creators of the art you supposedly love is, as Hugh put it, bewildering.

Once, at a World Series game in Atlanta, the Canadian flag was hung upside down. What does that have to do with us at the Hipbase? About as much as some Canadians drowning out the US anthem at a show in Cleveland.

That is, unless I missed the "Let's drown out the US anthem in Cleveland" thread...

then again, what kind of lame club plays the national anthem before a concert?

Perhaps no one noticed, but this thread is supposed to be about the new album.

Be quiet already!

That's right! And since there's nothing to report, why don't we talk about...hmmm....what should we talk about *thinking* hock: Hey I know! How about how pissed off we all are because WE HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD FUCKING SHIT!

hmm..ok ...that really wasn't called for. Sorry I'm in my post 3pm goofy mood.

yeah, so like I like to drive around Michigan with my Toronto Maple Leafs jersey air freshner :mrgreen: it raaaawks 8)

Flag-waving!?!?! C'mon. That's strictly passe. That went out with "Don't go there"... That went out with acid wash. Even I know that.

Honestly, I do think some of us Americans (ME, for sure) would be upset at people waving an American flag at a concert. And I do feel that Canadians would be ticked if at a Pearl Jam show in Saskatoon, a boisterous and all too largely visible percentage of the people in attendance were waving a US flag in your sightlines.

If I were at a show in my hometown of Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN and a band from Montana came to town followed by a rowdy crowd that waved a Montana flag in my face, I'd be a little annoyed. If I saw a show by a band from Arkansas who I didn't know real well, but who were tearing it up, I might want to pay attention to them. I may get distracted, however, by a loud group of Arkansinians going back and forth between screaming the lyrics (or drunken approximations thereof) at the band and "Arkansas, baby" at me while pointing at their sweaty Razorback (AK's college team) t-shirts.

Run Westy Run, a band from Mpls who on any given night can tear it up with anybody, has a nationwide (US) fanbase who is on a cult-level. That is, they'll sell out in NY, LA, Chicago.. but they play 350-2000 capacity venues and are NEVER on the radio. Their fans love them and shout along as the band roCks away. They're a slightly lesser level of what the Hip are down here.

Now think about what would happen if RWR played Toronto to a crowd that was largely unfamiliar with their music - but the fans in attendance were waving Minnesota flags and wearing "My Governor Can Beat Up Your Governor" (a Jesse Ventura reference) pins while being EXTREMELY LOUD!! It would turn people off.

Gordy has said "nationalism is inherently racist." The entire band has gone on record saying they don't like flag-waving.

Why?

It's crass and it creates a possessive "Us vs. Them" attitude prevelant in sports arenas where you aren't supposed to like anyone but the hometown team. It makes people not from "wherever" (in this case Canada) feel slighted and excluded.

And yet people wonder why the Hip haven't made it big in the US.

Christian Schutz Wrote:Flag-waving!?!?! C'mon. That's strictly passe. That went out with "Don't go there"... That went out with acid wash. Even I know that.

Honestly, I do think some of us Americans (ME, for sure) would be upset at people waving an American flag at a concert. And I do feel that Canadians would be ticked if at a Pearl Jam show in Saskatoon, a boisterous and all too largely visible percentage of the people in attendance were waving a US flag in your sightlines.

If I were at a show in my hometown of Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN and a band from Montana came to town followed by a rowdy crowd that waved a Montana flag in my face, I'd be a little annoyed. If I saw a show by a band from Arkansas who I didn't know real well, but who were tearing it up, I might want to pay attention to them. I may get distracted, however, by a loud group of Arkansinians going back and forth between screaming the lyrics (or drunken approximations thereof) at the band and "Arkansas, baby" at me while pointing at their sweaty Razorback (AK's college team) t-shirts.

Run Westy Run, a band from Mpls who on any given night can tear it up with anybody, has a nationwide (US) fanbase who is on a cult-level. That is, they'll sell out in NY, LA, Chicago.. but they play 350-2000 capacity venues and are NEVER on the radio. Their fans love them and shout along as the band roCks away. They're a slightly lesser level of what the Hip are down here.

Now think about what would happen if RWR played Toronto to a crowd that was largely unfamiliar with their music - but the fans in attendance were waving Minnesota flags and wearing "My Governor Can Beat Up Your Governor" (a Jesse Ventura reference) pins while being EXTREMELY LOUD!! It would turn people off.

Gordy has said "nationalism is inherently racist." The entire band has gone on record saying they don't like flag-waving.

Why?

It's crass and it creates a possessive "Us vs. Them" attitude prevelant in sports arenas where you aren't supposed to like anyone but the hometown team. It makes people not from "wherever" (in this case Canada) feel slighted and excluded.

And yet people wonder why the Hip haven't made it big in the US.

Your point of flag waving has merit, in that it does instill an attitude of us versus them . No one is more guilty of flag waving than the US , keep that in mind . We may wave our flag in Nationalistic pride at a band that has stayed true to their art and remained Canadian, not selling out their morals to make it on the US scene for more money ,which leads me to your last sentence, which makes absolutely zero sense . The Hip haven't made it big in the US because they won't conform to the cookie cutter crap the major labels love to flog to death. Gord never traded in his eccentric lyrics for the ear candy, nauseating shit jammed down our throats on MTV . If those Flag wavers weren't in the crowd you wouldn't see a fucking show , because 50 people would show up and the Hip's aspiration of sharing their music would end on a whimper of financial disaster .

hock: :thumb:

I have seen the show(s) where 50 people have shown up. For the Glenrustles (13 years together and still rocking) ... for Run Westy Run... and even a couple of what I would call fortunate (the fortune is the music, not the money) times the Hip. You know what the bands did? They played some of the most passionate and personal shows I've ever seen. If a band has that, they've got it. They'll stay together despite their successes (or in the Glenrustles case, lack thereof). Now imagine those shows - not PACKED with people, but with 50 and seven of them drunk and waving a flag in your face. Wouldn't happen, the people would look like fools. In the larger shows it does happen - only with more fools in front of even more bemused onlookers. You can complain about the small shows if you want. I love them. Less flag waving, and a band that can harness all of the energy and charisma that can connect with a stadium and hone it in on a lucky few. THAT'S a band connecting with their fans.

Which is how this all started, right?

I think you are missing my point , I didn't say a Hip show was without passion because of 50 fans , i'm saying it's not economically viable or sustainable . Regularly selling out 20,000 seat stadiums in Canada helps them tour down south and abroad . I don't like drunk obnoxious people no matter where they are from, but that element will always exist , whether there are five of them in a crowd waving a flag that let's you associate them with a country or simply just a bunch of drunken idiots . Whatever the Nationality .

I certainly did not intend to instigate a heated discussion over issues of nationalism. Though most everyone will likely point the finger of blame at me for doing just that, I’d like to remind everybody that this all arose from this one little statement that wasn’t even central to the post’s point of emphasis:

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:What I’ve found here at Hipbase, sadly, is nothing different from the prevailing attitudes of the migrants that make their presence painfully known at every Hip show I’ve ever seen here in the States.

While this statement may not exactly be ‘innocuous’, it seems a little absurd to me that it would incite a reaction of this proportion. The focus of that post concentrated on the effrontery I feel is demonstrated when group of artists is disparaged by their own fans for something as trivial as lax public-relations. Even more perplexing and astonishingly paradoxical is the fact that the criticism is directed at the lack of information released regarding forthcoming material, when it is the material itself, once polished and complete, which has garnered the respect and admiration of these fans in the first place. My claim was that this outcry constitutes a show of irreverence, and is a claim I feel is legitimate. The now infamous “cut” in the closing sentence of that post was simply my way of expressing how I am not necessarily surprised at such irreverence, since I have witnessed similar exhibitions of disrespect from fans of the band on many other occasions.

To the delight of you all, I’m sure, I will ‘let it go’ after this submittal, but not before I address this issue of “overzealous patriotism” and “obnoxious concert behavior” one final time, since it is obviously a subject of utter hyper-sensitivity, and something that is being overly de-emphasized in this discussion. I agree with several members’ statements that obnoxious and rowdy behavior does occur and should be expected at concerts everywhere, but there is a huge difference between the unruly behavior common to the concert environment and flat-out disrespect and irreverence shown towards fellow patrons and a nation in which you are a guest. I’ve seen a shitload of concerts in my lifetime - literally hundreds - in venues ranging from intimate clubs to stadiums, featuring acts of varying popularity, nationality, and style, and I must say that this phenomenon of rabid Canadian ultra-patriotism I’ve witnessed at virtually every Hip show I’ve attended is something I have never experienced anywhere else.

You may think that there is nothing wrong with it, but I tend to think that there just might be. I don’t understand it, and I’ve quit trying to figure it out. It was absent from the three Neil Young concerts I attended here in the States, and he’s Canadian. I saw none of it at the two Rush shows I attended here, and they’re Canadian. And you can bet there was no trace of it at the Gordon Lightfoot performances I’ve seen in this country, and he is a Canadian legend and is idolized by The Hip themselves. So what, exactly, is the deal? Truth be told, it’s really not an issue at well-attended shows, because I can simply ignore it. But some of the more intimate Hip shows I’ve attended (the best kind to see) were practically ruined by the incredible distraction it created.

There simply can be no defense or justification of this juvenile behavior. Those who engage in it should heed the words that Gord uttered to maple leaf-smothered, body-surfing zealots during one particular show played at The Newport in Columbus nearly a decade ago: “Stop embarrassing us, yourselves, and your country.”

Thank you, Gordie. :thumb: