Gunn Wrote:Crosby would not have made a difference due to his lack of international experience at the pro level.
Again, still not sure what makes you think that. Prior to this season, Crosby had
no NHL experience, yet he's 11th in the NHL in points (Thornton and Heatley are the
only Team Canada players outscoring Crosby) so it seems to me that he has the ability to quickly adjust to levels of hockey he's never seen before.
cferneyh Wrote:Gunn Wrote:Crosby would not have made a difference due to his lack of international experience at the pro level.
Again, still not sure what makes you think that. Prior to this season, Crosby had no NHL experience, yet he's 11th in the NHL in points (Thornton and Heatley are the only Team Canada players outscoring Crosby) so it seems to me that he has the ability to quickly adjust to levels of hockey he's never seen before.
Excellent point!!!!
I see this as a two-fold problem
1. We didn't have the right guys for the job...and that is Gretzky & Co's fault.
I really don't know how a guy like Staal can be left off or a guy like Kariya for that matter. Kariya is exactly what we needed an experienced International presence with an Olympic Gold medal on his resume and speed and scoring power to burn. What this team lacked was offensive power that is generated through SPEED. I cannot believe how s l o w Canada looked out there...it was pathetic and we simply could not muster any offensive pressure.
When it comes to our defence our supposed 2 "rock solid" d-men were playing injured...Blake with a crappy groin and Pronger with a broken foot. Don't get me wrong these guys are great players...but as noble as it is to suck it up and play hurt...Chris Pronger at 75% is NOWHERE NEAR as useful as a Dan Boyle or a Dion Phaneuf is at 100%
2. Some of the KEY guys we did have in the lineup simply didn't show up.
If someone happens to see Joe Thornton, Rick Nash, Vince Lecavallier or Todd Bertuzzi in the next week or so can you please tell them that they had imposters wearing their jerseys in the Olympics this week and they should find them right away before they ruin the rest of their NHL seasons too.
It really is disappointing, and I will be grumpy for the next 2 days, but the sun will come up tomorrow...and the Team Canada Olympians are having a Winter Games for the ages...another 4 medals today and still climbing.
RG
Gunn Wrote:The people I feel the worst for are Brodeur, Luongo and Joe Sakic. seriously, how many players in this day and age would suck it up and play with a broken jaw? sure he didn't produce points, but that was not supposed to be his job this tourny. He was there to lead, and going out there, taking hits and playing while injured, is a prime example of his dedication and intensity that somehow got lost within the dressing room, which is such a shame.
I think Sakic actually was counted on to score though. He was expected to be one of the main leaders AND TO SCORE. Both Iginla and Sakic failed in that respect. Sakic gutted it out but even before the injury he was invisible.
so i apparently missed the game, was wathcing the chezk/slovak game as the announcer blurts out canada lost...i swore a lot. now i have to go to work, the only good thing is USA is out now too, so my co-workers cant rag on me too much...or my patient's...i dare them to say something...muhahahaha! Oh and we are tied with USA for medals...is that a new thing? are we doing better at this olympics than usual? were 4th right now, I seem to always think we do shitty at olympics...or is that just the summer games?
~Will.
Yup... lots of blame to go around.
I do agree that, in hindsight, there were errors in team selection. The team looked like it was built for NHL-sized ice (i.e. World Cup play), but on the bigger ice they looked totally lost and unsure of what to do. And I noticed the lack of speed as well... which is really surprising since a lot of the players picked do have great speed. Still, guys like Paul Kariya, Eric Staal, Dion Phaneuf, and maybe even Sidney Crosby as well, would have looked great on this team. And Jason Spezza, although not the fastest guy, is a playmaker and could have helped to set guys up with better scoring chances. The other bonus in adding some of those players would have been an injection of youthful enthusiasm... something I think in hindsight we desperately needed. Look at Russia... their young guys, Ovechkin especially, were excellent today.
I think Canada also missed Scott Niedermayer more than people thought. His puck-moving abilities would have been an asset that the defense corps didn't really have as a whole (although part of that was the fault of the forwards and bad positioning). That was one injury that hurt.
Still, this was a group of players more than capable of coming together as a team and winning gold, so the vast majority of the blame has to fall on the players who didn't get it done. Sakic may have been great in the dressing room, but he struggled on the ice. Too many bad penalties by too many guys, especially McCabe, Pronger and Bertuzzi. And where the heck were Iginla, Nash, Lecavalier, Thornton, Gagne and Heatley? Those guys were invisible out there. Martin Brodeur was clearly Canada's best player... too bad he can't score goals, because he did just about everything else to keep them in the games against the Czechs and Russians.
Bottom line - while Gretzky and co. based too much of their team selections on loyalty and past performance as opposed to present performance, and while it's hard to say how much blame should be attributed to coaching (but at the same time acknowledging a change in the coaching staff is probably needed for 2010), this team as selected was still more than capable of winning gold. Instead they delivered one of the worst performances in Olympic history. If you want to blame anyone, blame the players (except for the goalies).
I'm going to sound like a complete Red Wings homer here but I'll say it anyways...
If you want a power forward and you're basing the team on who is playing the best at this time how is Shanahan left off of the team and they took Bertuzzi? Shanny is having a great season and he's been in these situations before.
I also agree that Canada really missed a mobile, puck-moving defenceman when Neidermayer went down. Injured or not, Pronger looked awful...and if he was so hurt why does Pat Quinn have him out there killing penalties?
Which leads me to my next pro-Red Wings point. Mike Babcock would have been a great coach for this team. He's not afraid to tear a strip off of guys that are playing bad and reward the guys that are performing with more ice time. Team Canada was too loyal to that World Cup 2004 team and it bit them in the ass.
There's also something about Sakic that I think he isn't in the same class as Lemieux and Yzerman. Sakic was so good in 2002 because he didn't have to be the guy. I can't really figure this out because he's captained Stanley Cup champion teams before but maybe it's because he had a strong, veteran supporting cast on those teams and this year with Canada it was predominately younger guys?
On a positive note, I think this allows the Leafs to go into restructuring mode now (if JFJ has the testicular fortitude). Quinn can get axed now since there was no way it was happening if Canada won gold again. In order to maintain some continuity, I think the Leafs need to hang on to Sundin, Tucker, McCabe, and Kaberle. They should also keep some of the youngsters: Tellqvist, Steen, and Wellwood. However, IMO, everyone else is on the block. They need to concentrate on building a younger, quicker team. This is what is essential in the "New NHL."
Well, I suppose we can be thankful that Team Canada at least lost with some class. Not surprisingly, someone on Team USA (Modano) had to spout off on how tough life was for him over there.
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But hey, at least they didn't trash any rooms this time around.
There is no excuse to play with such a lack of passion when representing your country. Everybody seemed to just shrug their shoulders and assume the next game would be better. Well now there is no next game for another 4 years. Someone has some serious 'splainin to do. This team needed a Sutter somewhere in the mix. You think they would have let this team get away with their who gives a shit approach? I can't wait to see the replay of Ovechkin bouncing off the plexiglass after his goal for the next 4 years. Its funny how a bunch of 18 year olds (last years WJ's)can figure out that hitting Ovechkin takes him off his game but the best players and coaches in the world can't do the same. All in all pretty fuckig pathetic.
what really pissed me off was prongers post game interview...he was actually smiling!!!
opiated Wrote:what really pissed me off was prongers post game interview...he was actually smiling!!!
I think he's one of those guys who is incapable of
not smiling when he talks. Iginla is the same way, as is Craig Conroy. Kirk Muller was also the same way and it drove me up the wall (well, when he was a Leaf it drove me up the wall).
Douglas Wrote:Its funny how a bunch of 18 year olds (last years WJ's)can figure out that hitting Ovechkin takes him off his game but the best players and coaches in the world can't do the same.
I think the difference is that the D in last year's WJ's were fast enough to catch Ovechkin. This time around they sure as hell weren't.
cferneyh Wrote:Douglas Wrote:Its funny how a bunch of 18 year olds (last years WJ's)can figure out that hitting Ovechkin takes him off his game but the best players and coaches in the world can't do the same.
I think the difference is that the D in last year's WJ's were fast enough to catch Ovechkin. This time around they sure as hell weren't.
Considering those WJ's... I wonder what Ovechkin would have thought if he saw Phaneuf lining up on the blue line for Canada? As much as I like Ovechkin's style and toughness, I think even he would have shrunk somewhat from that challenge.
The last 2 world junior teams knew how to play Euro's. The hammered the piss out of them for the first 10 minutes and then they were in their heads. I thought after a couple of days I would cool off but I just keep getting more and more upset about it. I waited 4 years for that? I guess it sets up pretty good for Vancouver. Should be cool to see that mayor get the flag in his wheel chair.