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Good Charlotte

highwaygirl28 Wrote:

K-Town Lassie Wrote:Oh yes! Shania, who wrote such thought provoking lyrics as...

"Don't be stupid-you know I love you
Don't be ridiculous-you know I need you
Don't be absurd-you know I want you
Don't be impossible ..."

How's this for stupid? People buy her albums. Impossible? Swallowing any of her inane "lyrics".

That is IF she even writes any of her own lyrics. It seems like most modern country artists do not write their own lyrics. I often amuze myself at our store looking at the booklets from the country cds...hardly any country artists (or 'pop' artists for that matter) write their own lyrics/music.

Doesn't surprise me :?

Not to defend Shania, but writing your own lyrics and music isn't really very important to being a musician or performing artist.

In fact, the need to perform original music is a recent phenomenon which arose when we developed recording technology. You can't base a record industry on endless reinterpretation of a few standards. And this leads to the demise of folk, blues, and other roots musical forms, but that's a whole other discussion....

Now, what inarguably is important to being a musician or performing artist is actually playing or singing the music you're allegedly performing. In recognition of which, I nominate to the pantheon of terrible bands all the members of the lip-sync hall of fame, and most importantly, Milli Vanilli.

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:Not to defend Shania, but writing your own lyrics and music isn't really very important to being a musician or performing artist.

I couldn't disagree with you more. In my opinion, writing your own music is very important. What Shania (and others) do is simply well-packaged karaoke. If Shania weighed 300 pounds she'd still be in Timmins. The world is littered with thousands of pretty girls with lungs. It ain't littered with people who can write good tunes.

cferneyh Wrote:What Shania (and others) do is simply well-packaged karaoke.

While I don't disagree that Shania would still be in Timmins had she not marketed herself as the world's highest-paid lap-dancer, writing your own tunes isn't what really matters.

Consider Howlin' Wolf, for example. Most of his best-known stuff was written for him by Willie Dixon. Was he singing well-packaged karaoke?

Let's face it, our beef with Shania et al isn't who wrote the songs, it's the songs themselves.

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:Consider Howlin' Wolf, for example. Most of his best-known stuff was written for him by Willie Dixon. Was he singing well-packaged karaoke?

Let's face it, our beef with Shania et al isn't who wrote the songs, it's the songs themselves.

Agreed re: Shania, but I maintain that being the songwriter is infinitely more important than being the performer. Take Bob Dylan. He isn't a great singer, isn't a great guitarist, but he is one hell of a songwriter. Should Hendrix or U2 or DMB get more credit for a brilliant rendition of All Along The Watchtower than Dylan? Without Dylan, there is no All Along The Watchtower.

I think if you took 100 Hipbasers and gave em all 50 guitar lessons, most of 'em would be able to do a great NOIS riff. But could any of us write NOIS?

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:

cferneyh Wrote:What Shania (and others) do is simply well-packaged karaoke.

While I don't disagree that Shania would still be in Timmins had she not marketed herself as the world's highest-paid lap-dancer, writing your own tunes isn't what really matters.

Consider Howlin' Wolf, for example. Most of his best-known stuff was written for him by Willie Dixon. Was he singing well-packaged karaoke?

Let's face it, our beef with Shania et al isn't who wrote the songs, it's the songs themselves.

That maybe true, but I think I have to agree with cferneyh's original post. Even if she didn't write that stupidity, she chooses to sing it. Songs that seem almost juvenile. Produced only to market to young girls who think she is pretty and want to be like her.

To me, whether you write you own songs or not, good music is something timeless. You can pull a Howlin' Wolf album out after ten or fifteen years on the shelf, and it is still as interesting and entertaining as the first time you heard it. Somehow, I can't see that ever happening with anything Shania sings.

(Mind you, I am probably wrong. If I knew that much about the music business, I'd be the one living in a villa in Switzerland, and she'd be here pouring over piles of credit card bills.... )

cferneyh Wrote:Agreed re: Shania, but I maintain that being the songwriter is infinitely more important than being the performer. Take Bob Dylan. He isn't a great singer, isn't a great guitarist, but he is one hell of a songwriter.

Ah, but Bob is a good singer, and a good guitar player, in his own inimitable way. He knows something that Shania and Celine don't.

He didn't write "No More Auction Block," for example, but his recording of it is chills-down-yer-spine beautiful. His performance of good old "Dixie" in Masked and Anonymous is another example -- he takes the simplest of traditional songs and applies his own inimitable voice to it with amazing results.

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:

cferneyh Wrote:Agreed re: Shania, but I maintain that being the songwriter is infinitely more important than being the performer. Take Bob Dylan. He isn't a great singer, isn't a great guitarist, but he is one hell of a songwriter.

Ah, but Bob is a good singer, and a good guitar player, in his own inimitable way. He knows something that Shania and Celine don't.

He didn't write "No More Auction Block," for example, but his recording of it is chills-down-yer-spine beautiful. His performance of good old "Dixie" in Masked and Anonymous is another example -- he takes the simplest of traditional songs and applies his own inimitable voice to it with amazing results.

Surely you aren't taking the position that Bob is held in the esteem he is because of the songs he's covered rather than the songs he's written. Bob Dylan is Bob Dylan because of his catelog of music - music he's written. Had he spent his entire career covering Woodie Guthrie tunes he'd still be playing coffee houses on Bleeker Street. :lol:

No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he would have had a successful career during the 60's folk revival had he never found his songwriting muse. Remember, his first album was mostly covers.

It's oversimplifying to say that Dylan is a success because he is a great songwriter. He's also a success because of the way he performs the material. Same-same for Howlin' Wolf. Which leads us back to Shania, and to the suggestion that maybe it ain't just the songs that are obnoxious, but the prepackaged delivery.

cferneyh Wrote:I couldn't disagree with you more. In my opinion, writing your own music is very important. What Shania (and others) do is simply well-packaged karaoke. If Shania weighed 300 pounds she'd still be in Timmins. The world is littered with thousands of pretty girls with lungs. It ain't littered with people who can write good tunes.

Well said :thumb:

highwaygirl28 Wrote:

cferneyh Wrote:I couldn't disagree with you more. In my opinion, writing your own music is very important. What Shania (and others) do is simply well-packaged karaoke. If Shania weighed 300 pounds she'd still be in Timmins. The world is littered with thousands of pretty girls with lungs. It ain't littered with people who can write good tunes.

Well said :thumb:

OK, newbie about to get flamed here...
Although I do not own a Shania Twain CD, never went to one of her shows, etc... I have nothing but the most respect for her. I went to school with her (grades seven & eight), and back then (as "Elaine") she told everyone who would listen to this shy reserved kid that she was going to be a country singer. Whether she writes her songs or not doesn't matter to me, she went from being this awkward skinny kid 2 lockers down from me to a star, just like she said she would. Well done kiddo!

back to hanson for a second...funny story...i was working at virgin megastore in vancouver and hanson were pretty new...i'll never forget talking to this one guy, and he seemed like a pretty decent fellow..we're chatting away, and i'm not sure how it came up but he says to me.."you know..those gals from hanson are gonna be hot when they get older.."...i wasn't sure if i should tell him or not, but i ended up saying.."umm..they're 14 year old boys.."...i've never seen a face go that red before ever...he stared blankly at me, turned around and walked out the door...

skippy the wonder dog Wrote:No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he would have had a successful career during the 60's folk revival had he never found his songwriting muse. Remember, his first album was mostly covers.

It's oversimplifying to say that Dylan is a success because he is a great songwriter. He's also a success because of the way he performs the material. Same-same for Howlin' Wolf. Which leads us back to Shania, and to the suggestion that maybe it ain't just the songs that are obnoxious, but the prepackaged delivery.

We'll never know if Bob would have had a successful career simply singing other people's tunes. But what we do know is that he has had an incredibly successful career writing his own tunes.

If you can show me another folk singer who made a Dylan-esque career out of doing other people's material, I'll grant you a "maybe you are right". But I simply can't think of any. There were dozens upon dozens doing what Dylan originally did. What separated him from the pack (and he knew this is what would separate him from the pack - he even said so in Chronicles) is that he started writing his own tunes.

Anyway, I doubt that we are going to be successful in changing each other's minds. But as you mentioned before, what we can agree on is that Shania's music is crap. But because she's hot, and because she's Canadian, she gets a free pass whereas I really don't see what the difference between her and Britney is.

Well, it's unfortunate that I've failed to convince you, as I've just checked and learned that Shania does, in fact, write (or co-write) her own material.

If you hurry, HMV is still having it's boxing week sale. I'm sure this news has converted you into a Shania fan, and fortunately for your post-Christmas bank balance, her discography is pretty small.

What? You're saying that her music didn't suddenly improve? Could this be an admission that authorship isn't relevant to the quality of her records?