PunBB

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone (Canadian or American) but I'm just a bit curious. I'm pleased that are a considerable amount of American Hipsters here - not that nationality should even matter, but still it's nice. But here goes:

1. Do you consider yourself to be patriotic towards the US?
2. Have anyone ever questioned your patriotism for the US because of your love for the Tragically Hip/Canadian music? If so, does that bother you.
3. When you tell others about your love for the Tragically Hip/Canadian music, is the responce usually positive ot negative? Are they more likely to commend you for being open-minded or condemn you of treason?

Just to give a little background on why I'm asking. I have been interested in Canada since I was 9 years old and loved Canadian music. However, I also felt as if I was under immense pressure to be patriotic and that I would somehow be considered a bad girl if I wasn't patriotic. So for the next three years, I was trying to be patriotic towards the US while, at the same time, showing interest in Canada. But then, once when I was 12 years old, I was in the record store trying to purchase some CDs by various Canadian artists. When the salesclerk had told me that the stores didn't carry any of those CDs, I was just about to say thanks anyway for his help and have a nice day. However, he wasn't going to just let me go. I next bit of conversation went something like this:

Him: *angrily* Is this some kind of joke, little miss?
Me: *taken aback* No, why do you ask that?
Him: *indignantly* I have never heard of any of those artists before!
Me: *smiling* Oh, these are all Canadian artists who have never made it into this country.
Him: *incredulously* You listen to Canadian music?
Me: *nodding* Yes, I do. There's a lot of great artists that are not making it into this country.
Him: *sighing* Why don't just leave that music to the Canadians? We have plenty of great music in this country.
Me: *sighing* I don't dispute that - but why shouldn't I listen to Canadian music?
Him: *bluntly* Because this is not Canada - this is the United States.
Me: *rebelliously* So?
Him: *demandingly* So, aren't you proud to be a part of this country?
Me: *getting steamed* Sure I am - but I think Canada is a great country, too?
Him: *getting furious* I can't believe it! You kids these days! You can never be grateful for what you have. You always want more, more, more!
Me: *defensively* Well, excuuuse me for being open-minded and trying out new things!! So you think it's more patriotic to stay close-minded and not try new things?
Him: *rolling his eyes* You don't get it, do you?
Me: *agitated* Actually, no, I don't!! I don't understand your logic at all!!
Him: *fuming* You're not patriotic!! You're a two-faced creep!!
Me: *on the verge of tears* Two-faced?! Just for liking Canadian music, that makes me two-faced?! You are unbelievable!!
Him: *screaming* Two-faced scum like you don't belong in this fine country! You don't know how great you have it! Out of my store, now!!
Me: *runs out of the store, crying*

Anyway, it was from that day onward that I had finally decided to jump ship, so to speak. So, since, then, I was determined to rebel against everything having to do with patriotism. And, thus, this is why I'm moving to Canada this Friday.

So, I'm just wondering if anyone else ever experienced something like that. Again, I hope this doesn't offend anyone.

Good music knows no borders. Any record store dude picking on 12 year old girls who are just trying to purchase some new and different music has much bigger issues. I don't see how music consumption=patriotism, unless you are a narrow minded idiot named Toby Keith.

I wonder what this guy would have said if it was 2002 and you went into his store and bought a copy of Steve Earle's Jerusalem CD. Steve Earle is American, yet Jerusalem has many lyrics attacking US foreign policy and he even wrote a song (John Walker's Blues) trying to get people to look at things from John Walker's point of view (John Walker being the American kid they found fighting for the Taliban).

Anyway, I'm getting off-topic here but the long winded point that I am trying to make is that being open minded (like yourself) is the way everyone should be, but unfortunately you will run into many closed minded people in life. Just don't let them get you down.

And welcome to Canada!!!!!

Wow, thats 1 pissy clerk It seems to me that your very uncomfortable living in the U.S. from most of your postz I've read, there seemz to be that underlying unease of being a U.S. citizen. But I mean,, how bad can it really be? When I think of the lower 48, I think there'd be alot cool thingz to do down there, tonz of history, good and bad. I don't think I'd wanna trade in my citizenship but I do plan on going down there 1 day, grande canyon, daytona beach when the woman are wearing nary a shred of clothing, venice beach where the woman where nary a shred of clothing. Lost Wages to do some gaming. I could go on and on but I guess what I'm trying to say is we don't got a perfect country up to here but you may find there is some thingz you will end up missing about your country. I think your life expectancy will climb a few notchez though. We may have 1 or 2 less murderz a year than tha statez What province ya moving to?Oh and we got a good healthcare system......for now cratch: No i think it will survive :wink:

For me, the Hip have nothing to do with patriotism. I believe that Canadian patriotism is no better than American patriotism (jingoism, for that matter). How you can denounce American patriotism, yet embrace whole-heartedly a Canadian counter-part strikes me as a little odd and irrational(basing this on what Ive read of your posts).

If you believe that Canada is some sort of bohemian utopia, youve probably watched one too many Michael Moore movies, and will be sadly mistaken. Im very sorry to hear of your disturbing experience, but im certain that what you are referring to is a completely isolated incident.

Dont get me wrong, I love the country I live in, but there is so much more out there that is exponentially more important.

Thanks for your responce, guys. I'm moving to Ontario, near Toronto. I'm hoping that, one day, I can feel better about this country (the US) - but the war in Iraq pretty much just gets to me. Anyway, I will miss my folks and all - but I am looking forward for the move.

vicariousmartyr Wrote:If you believe that Canada is some sort of bohemian utopia, youve probably watched one too many Michael Moore movies, and will be sadly mistaken. Im very sorry to hear of your disturbing experience, but im certain that what you are referring to is a completely isolated incident.

I suppose it does seem that way at times, and I suppose your right. I understand that the taxes in Canada are bad - but the healthcare sounds better. As I've said, I hope I can one day feel better about this country. I'll still be too young to vote this year - and I'll be in Canada, anyway - but I really hope John Kerry wins the election. I'm also happy to see Bruce Springsteen, John Mellencamp, and a few others out on tour promoting a change in the US policies.

April, where are you from?

I live in Western North Carolina and the Hip is basically non exsistent. The only folks who know about the Hip are those seriously into music. The response I get from them is "I hear they are huge in Canada" (making fun of the "I'm huge in Japan..." ha..ha..haa.. )

The conversation you had in the record store sounds to be about normal with the knee jerk uberAmericans. Down here, the feeling about "America" is very polarized, everyone is either completely defensive, or about to cross the border. I personally could leave this country and not look back until things change. I don't see the "Coolness of America" anymore. GWBush seems to epitomize everything that I can't stand about this country. It's very smug here. The best way to describe the vibe in the states: Smug.

The war is being fought by the poor while everyone drives around in their SUV's with flag stickers. To me the Hip's lyrics always seem to put a sardonic mirror up to your face and make you think. Maybe that's why they are not "huge" here. IMHO

Well, back then, I lived in Alabama, but I've moved to Minnesota since. In three days, though - I leave for Canada. I suppose that record store clerk might have had issues with Steve Earle as well, even though he's American - for the reasons that cferneyh has stated. I'm happy to see that recent polls do seem to show more than half the Americans being against the war in Iraq, so maybe there is hope, yet. Well, at least my parents plan to vote for John Kerry - so at least that's something, I guess. I just hope that the people who usually vote conservative on the grounds of being anti-abortion will be able to think about the bigger picture this time around. I'm anti-abortion, too - but, at this moment, I think it would be considered the lesser of two evils compared to the war in Iraq. Well, you probably get the picture.

Well most of the ground has been covered, I guess...I'm really surprised, though, that you can dismiss your country's patriotism wholesale. I mean, this is the age of the American EMPIRE...in every sense of the word, the US is a more powerful country than any that ever existed. Obviously the US doesn't invade and conquer like the Romans, but they could if they wanted to. They have the free world by the balls...some countries they can threaten with military action, and perfectly friendly countries like Canada get threatened with economic sanctions on almost a daily basis. How is that NOT supposed to go to their heads south of the 49th?

I cam from England, and there's a lot politically that I am not happy with there, but I still have a lot of respect for the nation's affairs and folow them with interest. I can't say that because I love Canada so much - and I do, I'd never move back - that I hate England now by default.

So what are you going to be doing up here? Are you parents moving too? If you're too young to vote, I assume your whole family is moving? Regardless of your motives for moving, it will be a welcome opportunity to have one more politically aware and responsibly informed person in this country who take arms (metaphorically, of course...the Army's got salad shooters) against the American oppression that every country in the world - free or otherwise - is subjected to.

By the way, I didn't think half so bad of the US when Clinton was in power. If Kerry wins, my estimation of American society will improve tenfold.

As Gord once said: The band occupies the middle ground between jingoism and insecurity.

The boys love Canada and critisize her failings just as they do with the U.S.

I do however see how it would be easy for an American to say: "We're do YOU get off critisizing MY President!"

Just another aspect of the global village: we're all connected, so we're all critics. I think more than anything, the band, like most Canadians: can love the nation, and dislike the leader.

From Chart Magazine's recent interview with Gord:

"I love Americans. The present administration's policies? Those I don't love. And I think that ultimately has a ripple effect, ya know? And the ripple effect has hit Canada and its hit the rest of the world. It's important to make that distinction. It's not America that you dislike. It's certain people and certain policies."

and then later in the interview:

"It takes the form of a weird menace I think," says Downie (describing IBE). "In most of these songs there seems- in my mind anyway- a TV flickering away off in the corner of the frame. It's always there. And on that TV is FOX News."

we live in a great country, but there's still a lot of room for improvement VOTE DARKEST CANUCK for PM in 2044!!!!!!!!!!

1. id say im patriotic
2. No one has ever questioned my patriotism because of my love for canadian music, poutine, and 2 dollar bills in the form of multicolored coins.

being from buffalo i feel i have a good feel of what canada is all about. They love their beer , their hockey, mike myers, and their hours only have 22 minutes.

hehe, you forgot to mention our insanely good MARIJUANA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grooveless touque Wrote:So what are you going to be doing up here? Are you parents moving too? If you're too young to vote, I assume your whole family is moving? Regardless of your motives for moving, it will be a welcome opportunity to have one more politically aware and responsibly informed person in this country who take arms (metaphorically, of course...the Army's got salad shooters) against the American oppression that every country in the world - free or otherwise - is subjected to.

Actually, my parents aren't moving up to Canada with me, but they've arranged for a host family to take me in. Two of my friends, Brent and Sarah Jane, are moving with me.

You guys do bring up some good insight in this thread. I guess it's not really America that I hate - it's certain people and certain policies.

BTW, I think it would be nice if Canadians could vote in the US elections, as well - or, at least, this up-coming election.

Anyway, I'd better get packing, now.