Hey, listen, I love the Hip. But I don't love them uncritically - that's just not in my DNA, I don't love any artist uncritically. There are, however, relatively few Hip songs I truly loathe, and only one that causes me almost physical pain to listen to, in the way that (say) Celine Dion does. That song is "World Container." I just can't abide that kind of grandiose grotesquerie in music. Can't stand it.
As for the strong song "buried" under all that shit, I conceded earlier that there's a good lyric there for sure. The melody I can take or leave, it's nothing special. None of that is worth suffering through that abominable parodic cliche-ridden 1980s Big Ballad music-scape. You might as well crank up the David Foster records (which that dated and taste-deprived moron Bob Rock probably looooves).
On another note: does anyone have any theories as to what Gord is up to on "Drop Off?" Who is he referencing with that bizarre vocal? As I've been re-listening to WC in light of this thread, I find the vocal pretty much spoils a magnificent song. He doesn't sound like himself at all, and usually when a singer doesn't sound like themselves it's because they're referencing someone else; so I'm wondering who, in fact, he is trying to sound like - ? Or was it just a bizarre experiment?
(This leaves me with Rink, In View, Luv(sic), Kids, and Family Band as all that survive my personal filtering process from that album. Even there, I have to tolerate Rock's ridiculous synths and the comically inept "I am of you" line on In View, as well as the dumb pun and rather unexciting lyrics on 'Luv.' Oh, well. Not even the Hip can win 'em all).
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:On another note: does anyone have any theories as to what Gord is up to on "Drop Off?" Who is he referencing with that bizarre vocal? As I've been re-listening to WC in light of this thread, I find the vocal pretty much spoils a magnificent song. He doesn't sound like himself at all, and usually when a singer doesn't sound like themselves it's because they're referencing someone else; so I'm wondering who, in fact, he is trying to sound like - ? Or was it just a bizarre experiment?
I love when Gord stretches his vocals and The Drop Off is a fine example. It adds personality to the song. It's good to vary things, even if it doesn't fully work. This song has a "frenetic" feel, both in the vocal, lyrics ("Holy fuck, it's Jesus!") and metre (the "Personal stakes will get raised and get raised" rant).
I get that it's not for everyone, but the "Yer a comet from earth in a Kiss Alive shirt" line, along with the badass GS bass line are enough for me. The Dylan reference doesn't do anything for you, KWT?
Like I said...it's a great song (including the 'Dylan' line of course). And I agree that his singing in the middle eight is fun. It's the singing in the verses/chorus that bothers me. He sounds like a demented cartoon character. It doesn't work, to my ear at least, and that's too bad - when you have a tank of a song like that, FFS get out of yer own way.
Escape@Hand Wrote:they have released a few songs that are pretty weak, imho, especially on MMP.
That's crazy talk. MMP is the best thing they've done since at least IBE.
Killer Whale Tank Wrote:Like I said...it's a great song (including the 'Dylan' line of course). And I agree that his singing in the middle eight is fun. It's the singing in the verses/chorus that bothers me. He sounds like a demented cartoon character. It doesn't work, to my ear at least, and that's too bad - when you have a tank of a song like that, FFS get out of yer own way.
Mostly because I forgot to mention this in an earlier post - but the lyric "Our shovels meeting in some crisis" and the imagery it invokes is an all time favourite for me. I've wondered if it's a nod to these lines from locked:
Then I found a place, it's dark and it's rotted
It's a cool, sweet kind of place where the copters won't spot it
And I destroyed the map, I even thought I forgot it
However, every day I'm dumping the body
direwolf74 Wrote:Escape@Hand Wrote:they have released a few songs that are pretty weak, imho, especially on MMP.
That's crazy talk. MMP is the best thing they've done since at least IBE.
Well I don't want to stray off topic, and we will have this discussion in detail for that album, so all I will say is that it only has 10 songs, and about half of them are garbage. I also hate the production of that album more than anything they did with Bob Rock.
direwolf74 Wrote:Escape@Hand Wrote:they have released a few songs that are pretty weak, imho, especially on MMP.
That's crazy talk. MMP is the best thing they've done since at least IBE.
Agreed. I remember almost crying after my first listen. Was skeptical if the boys still had it after WC and aproached MMP as objectively as possible. Still cant believe they knocked the (maybe) last album out of the fucking park. Would have loved another Kevin Drew and Dave Hamlin produced record
Joe Wrote:direwolf74 Wrote:Escape@Hand Wrote:they have released a few songs that are pretty weak, imho, especially on MMP.
That's crazy talk. MMP is the best thing they've done since at least IBE.
Agreed. I remember almost crying after my first listen. Was skeptical if the boys still had it after WC and aproached MMP as objectively as possible. Still cant believe they knocked the (maybe) last album out of the fucking park. Would have loved another Kevin Drew and Dave Hamlin produced record
I remember almost crying too, because I was thinking "What happened to the Hip?!!!???"...anyways, I digress and I'm getting off topic. So to get back onto WC, I think almost every song on it is better than most of MMP, except the glorious Machine. The best WC songs can't touch Machine, but the rest are better overall. I'll take the worst songs on WC (Last Night, Pretend) over most of MMP (Tired as F*#k (their worst song ever), In Sarnia (their second worst song ever) Great Soul, Ocean Next (an ok song, but because MMP is so weak, it's almost a standout track on it)). I listen to MMP so rarely that I had to double check the track listing on Wikipedia to make sure I didn't miss any songs. :mrgreen:
Escape@Hand Wrote:I remember almost crying too, because I was thinking "What happened to the Hip?!!!???"
That gave me a good chuckle. One day you'll come around to MMP!
I guess we'll get around to much more discussion when MMP comes up, but I think the overall gravity of the situation weighs on a lot of us and made us listen to MMP with different ears due to the circumstances. I have a feeling would have much differing opinions on the album if it was "just another new release"......
Not saying I don't like it, I'd just be curious as to how it would have been accepted under differing circumstances.....
cochise Wrote:I guess we'll get around to much more discussion when MMP comes up, but I think the overall gravity of the situation weighs on a lot of us and made us listen to MMP with different ears due to the circumstances. I have a feeling would have much differing opinions on the album if it was "just another new release"......
Not saying I don't like it, I'd just be curious as to how it would have been accepted under differing circumstances.....
I've had that exact same thought since it was released.
I think this is exactly right.
It’s really hard to look at Man Machine Poem in a vacuum.
Man, I’m just happy this album got made.
If we had been waiting five years for an album that never came, it would have been even worse.
And heaven knows things got rough.
I think MMP is all right, but disagree that it is some stunning "return to form." There aren't enough songs on it (it's only nine tracks, since "Man" is too turgid a ricochet off the mighty "Machine" to count as a proper song) and not all of those tracks are all that great. I skip the atrocious "Great Soul" and the dull "Hot Mic." That leaves six cuts. And worse, it lacks the critical mass of really major "anchor" songs that top-flight Hip albums have. Even the wrongly reviled NFPA has Attawapiskat, Man Machine Poem, and We Want to Be It, i.e., three self-evidently powerhouse songs. MMP really only has "Machine;" the other contender, "In Sarnia," is a splendid composition compromised by terrible production that makes it hard to rate among the Hip's real top-tier efforts.
That being said, it has it all over WC for the simple reasons that it avoids any such grotesqueries as "Fly" or the title track. Just the absence of that idiot's trite and plodding keyboards marks a huge advantage.
Anyway...YES WE ARE OFF TOPIC :lol: :lol: :lol: Let's keep the discussion focused on their worst record, i.e., World Container! :thumb:
andrew sharpe Wrote:I'm surprised hardcore Hip fans "hate" any Hip songs. Even their worst one is quite listenable by my standards.
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
Amen. I've been on a 18 month post Kingston virtual non-stop listen to the Hip's catalog after not hearing them at all since MAW. I don't skip any songs other than 4 on the EP, bun nothing from their actual albums. I personally put World Container near the bottom of the Hip discography but it is still an excellent album, albeit different from anything else they ever attempted.
I love WATS, and while I suspect it probably shocked people when it came out, I never had that experience. From the first time I listened to it in 2016 I was blown away. Depression Suite is one of the greatest things I've ever heard by any band. I'm kind of stunned anyone could say "Struggle" is a bad song. That's just crazy talk.
southtampacane Wrote:I'm kind of stunned anyone could say "Struggle" is a bad song. That's just crazy talk.
I'd put it in the bottom 5% of Hip songs. It's overly earnest in it's criticism of the response to the Truth and Reconciliation Report. There are a couple nice lines in there, like using "the sun in a mirror" to describe the transient and fleeting interest by the general public in the apology, but overall it misses it's mark. I take four issues: 1. Gord sings beautifully but it feels like over-emoting in relation to the subject matter. 2. The addition of the strings is awful on this one and bother me much more than they do on the song "World Container" (or on The Depression Suite, where the strings actually work for me). Rock takes a failing stab at trying to make this song majestic in scope but instead turns it into something grandiose and full of pretension, which doesn't suit the seriousness of the subject matter. A more sombre acoustic vibe might have worked better here. 3. Less than appealing tone on the guitar solo. 4.The song tackles a subject matter that was handled much more adeptly on Secret Path.
Sorry to "stun" with the "crazy talk"!
