tigerthelion Wrote:Brandon Phillips wasn't shy when he burned his old team, was he? :rambo: :censored
Nope, because "his old team" burned him!
A heartfelt congratualtions to Jon Lester!!! Did anyone else see the no-hitter last night? I thought it was wonderful to see him get his due. His 2007 World Series performance was overlooked due to Boras' false, obnoxious and attention-grabbing announcement concerning A-Rod opting out of his contract. Additionally, this makes the FOURTH no-hitter that Jason Veritek has caught and called.
Way to go Sox!
Jenna_Bird Wrote:A heartfelt congratualtions to Jon Lester!!! Did anyone else see the no-hitter last night? I thought it was wonderful to see him get his due. His 2007 World Series performance was overlooked due to Boras' false, obnoxious and attention-grabbing announcement concerning A-Rod opting out of his contract. Additionally, this makes the FOURTH no-hitter that Jason Veritek has caught and called.
Way to go Sox!
I am not a Sox fan, (love my Mets) but, I did enjoy this game. Yeah, congrats! to Lester, wouldn't mind if Veritek was on my team :thumb:
Jenna_Bird Wrote:Did anyone else see the no-hitter last night?
Um, yeah, I saw it. First time I've been on the losing end of a no-hitter since I was 2 years old, so it stung a bit. Still, I couldn't be happier for Lester. Amazing story. Just hope the Royals can keep Masterson from doing the same thing again tonight. :roll:
Living where I do I hardly get to see the Sox on television, but Im happy for Lester, this guy is builidng a nice resume in such a short time.
lets go RED SOX!!
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:Brandon Phillips wasn't shy when he burned his old team, was he? :rambo: :censored
Nope, because "his old team" burned him!
Not really. He played like dog crap for the Indians. They couldn't wait forever for him to develop. So I take it that you endorse showboating now?
tigerthelion Wrote:Not really. He played like dog crap for the Indians. They couldn't wait forever for him to develop.
So he "played like crap" in those whopping 370 AB in the first half of his rookie season?
C'mon tiger....even Shapiro admits they mishandled his development. They made several mistakes with him, namely a) stubbornly insisting he "play through" his struggles as a raw rookie in the first half of 2003 (instead of sending him back down to AAA Buffalo early on to get his mind right), and then b) sticking him back at Buffalo in early 2005 after he tore it up there in 2004 (.303/.363/.430 with 8 HRs, 50 RBI and 14 SB), and finally c) trading him to Cincy for
Jeff Stevens. Jeff
Who?
So Cleveland virtually
gave the Reds a second baseman who, in his first two full MLB season, put up these numbers:
2006: .276 /.324 /.427 / 17 HR / 75 RBI / 25 SB
2007: .288 /.331 /.485 / 30 HR / 94 RBI / 32 SB
And he got gypped out of a Gold Glove last year, finishing 2nd to Orlando Hudson in votes even though he made fewer errors in more chances than Hudson.
Any perceived "slow development" can be blamed on the Indians for jerking the guy around. It pissed him off (justifiably), and his attitude took a nose-dive...which irked Wedge...who soon began to insist that freaking
Ramon Vazquez was a "better fit" for Cleveland. Shapiro didn't agree, but deferred to Wedge's discretion.
And regarding BP's "flamboyance"....sure, I'd prefer he scaled back a little...but in truth, the only times he acts in a way I'd describe as "showboating" is when he's scorching the Indians...which, given the way they handled him, will always get a free pass from me.
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:Not really. He played like dog crap for the Indians. They couldn't wait forever for him to develop.
So he "played like crap" in those whopping 370 AB in the first half of his rookie season?
C'mon tiger....even Shapiro admits they mishandled his development. They made several mistakes with him, namely a) stubbornly insisting he "play through" his struggles as a raw rookie in the first half of 2003 (instead of sending him back down to AAA Buffalo early on to get his mind right), and then b) sticking him back at Buffalo in early 2005 after he tore it up there in 2004 (.303/.363/.430 with 8 HRs, 50 RBI and 14 SB), and finally c) trading him to Cincy for Jeff Stevens. Jeff Who?
So Cleveland virtually gave the Reds a second baseman who, in his first two full MLB season, put up these numbers:
2006: .276 /.324 /.427 / 17 HR / 75 RBI / 25 SB
2007: .288 /.331 /.485 / 30 HR / 94 RBI / 32 SB
And he got gypped out of a Gold Glove last year, finishing 2nd to Orlando Hudson in votes even though he made fewer errors in more chances than Hudson.
Any perceived "slow development" can be blamed on the Indians for jerking the guy around. It pissed him off (justifiably), and his attitude took a nose-dive...which irked Wedge...who soon began to insist that freaking Ramon Vazquez was a "better fit" for Cleveland. Shapiro didn't agree, but deferred to Wedge's discretion.
And regarding BP's "flamboyance"....sure, I'd prefer he scaled back a little...but in truth, the only times he acts in a way I'd describe as "showboating" is when he's scorching the Indians...which, given the way they handled him, will always get a free pass from me.
Fair enough. Yeah, the Indians didn't handle him as well as they could have. They did him a favour by trading him to the Reds. For that, he should be grateful. Phillips wasn't exactly a "team friendly" player either, from what I've read. He was a whining malcontent. Maybe he had some reason for that, but, he should have handled himself in a more professional manner IMO.
So, how long do you think the Indians should wait for Marte and Josh Barfield to develop?
BTW, if you see Adam Dunn in the near future, tell him, from me, "F**K YOU!" :lol: :lol:
I've heard rumours of Seattle being interested in bringing Griffey back. Have you heard anything on local radio stations or the papers about that happening?
tigerthelion Wrote:So, how long do you think the Indians should wait for Marte and Josh Barfield to develop?
Well Barfield...he's at the point where I don't think there's much else they can do besides let him work through some things at AAA. Unlike Phillips, he performed
well in his rookie season in San Diego (2006) after hitting .310 in 500 AB at AAA Portland in 2005. He just didn't get it done with the Indians in 2007 and probably belongs in AAA. He's 25 now, so if his performance at AAA this year merits a callup, he'd better take full advantage. But there's no rule that says you have to trade a guy with his pedigree if he struggles.
As for Marte, I can't understand why he isn't in AAA with Barfield. There's no point letting a 24 year-old sit on the bench for your big club, not getting ABs. Another bad decision by Shapiro if you ask me.
tigerthelion Wrote:I've heard rumours of Seattle being interested in bringing Griffey back. Have you heard anything on local radio stations or the papers about that happening?
A ton. But Jocketty said they've had no talks RE: trading Griffey, and Griffey has said he'd prefer to stay in Cincy and try to win here. :roll:
tigerthelion Wrote:BTW, if you see Adam Dunn in the near future, tell him, from me, "F**K YOU!" :lol: :lol: ?
If I see Adam Dunn in the near future, I'll tell him "F**K YOU!" for
me. :lol:
Chances of him getting traded are better than Griffey, imo....
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:So, how long do you think the Indians should wait for Marte and Josh Barfield to develop?
Well Barfield...he's at the point where I don't think there's much else they can do besides let him work through some things at AAA. Unlike Phillips, he performed well in his rookie season in San Diego (2006) after hitting .310 in 500 AB at AAA Portland in 2005. He just didn't get it done with the Indians in 2007 and probably belongs in AAA. He's 25 now, so if his performance at AAA this year merits a callup, he'd better take full advantage. But there's no rule that says you have to trade a guy with his pedigree if he struggles.
As for Marte, I can't understand why he isn't in AAA with Barfield. There's no point letting a 24 year-old sit on the bench for your big club, not getting ABs. Another bad decision by Shapiro if you ask me.
tigerthelion Wrote:I've heard rumours of Seattle being interested in bringing Griffey back. Have you heard anything on local radio stations or the papers about that happening?
A ton. But Jocketty said they've had no talks RE: trading Griffey, and Griffey has said he'd prefer to stay in Cincy and try to win here. :roll:
tigerthelion Wrote:BTW, if you see Adam Dunn in the near future, tell him, from me, "F**K YOU!" :lol: :lol: ?
If I see Adam Dunn in the near future, I'll tell him "F**K YOU!" for me. :lol:
Chances of him getting traded are better than Griffey, imo....
Shapiro sucks. I'm gonna go ahead and say it-- last year was a fluke. The bullpen guys had huge years last year, which won't happen again. I mean, Raffy Perez and Betancourt were damn near unhittable last season. Not so much this season. Kenny Lofton was a monster for the Indians in the playoffs (first round, anyway) and that wasn't expected. The Tribe's farm system has zero high end talent right now, and Shapiro refuses to trade his prospects for proven performers, even though the prospects aren't anywhere near blue chip prospects. At some point, a GM has to take a chance to try to win. For f^ck sakes, all reports indicated that Shapiro wouldn't include Shoppach or Cabrerra in any potential deals. Shoppach is a backup catcher for frig sakes, and Cabrerra is hitting sub .200 this season and showing no signs of getting better anytime soon, and his defense is overrated. It's not Shapiro's fault that Sizemore is playing like crap or that Peralta can't hit, I admit. Sizemore is overrated, though. He's good but for all the talk of him being a superstar, his numbers simply do not back up that claim. Giving Hafner the huge deal seemed risky at the time, but even that signing can be justified I suppose. I dunno, it just seems like most other teams get their high draft picks up in the bigs a lot quicker than the Indians do. Look at the D-Backs. They are ridiculously young but they have great young talent. Trevor Crowe, among others, was supposed to be a great prospect out of college, yet he hasn't sniffed the big leagues yet. They need to either draft better or actually give some guys a chance. It's not they have no clue evaluating young talent for the most part, and that goes beyond Shapiro to the scouts and others in the organization. Shapiro goes out and signs old bum platoon players like Dellucci and Michaels and tries to tell the fans that the team is set to make a run? C'mon now. :nooooo :nooooo :nooooo
I wasn't aware of Dunn's mediocore season this year until now. I just saw him hit moonshots against the Indians' pitchers and didn't particularly care for it. :lol:
It's a shame, really, that the Indians are getting such tremendous starting pitching and it's all going to waste.
Griffey is optimistic of winning in Cincy is he? Good for him.
To a man, I like Shapiro. Seems like a good guy, and I like the direction he has tried to go with the club. I wouldn't say that he and his staff cannot evaluate talent, but I would say that it seems that they don't know what to do with it once they get it.
There have been some successes.....signing Victor Martinez was like finding some hidden treasure. And the deal which sent Bartolo Colon to Montreal for Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips was one of the greatest steals of all time. Though, as we covered before, handing Phillips to the Reds for nothing in return hedged their gains on that one. I just cannot emphasize enough what a setback that was for Cleveland in this building process. They could have had the 2B position and a big top/middle-of-the-lineup bat locked up for years. And it looks like they are dying for some offense right now....
I apparently view Sizemore much differently than you. I love players with his skill set - incredible athlete (he also excelled at football and basketball), a great defensive outfielder (and true centerfielder), decent power, decent speed, can hit for average and draw walks. The only flaw I see is he whiffs a little too much. But I'll take his regular-season averages over Adam Dunn's any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Sure, Dunn crushes 40 moonshots a year and draws a gob of walks, yet he barely manages to drive in 100 runs because he strikes out 200 times and can't hit .250. He is a deplorable defensive outfielder, and has no speed. So what do you do with him? High OBP, but you can't hit him high in the order becuse he has no speed, can't hit for average, and can't move runners. Tremendous power, but when you hit him in the middle of the order, his Ks ruin scoring opportunities. You have to hit him low in the order, which wastes his only assests - his power and his ability to draw walks. On top of it all, he has no leadership qualities and absolutely no "fire" or "passion"....the dude is complacent, and losing just doesn't seem to bother him at all.
He needs to go metastasize in someone else's clubhouse.
Don't run on the field! :lol:
[youtube]<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lJ0HKaPnYto&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lJ0HKaPnYto&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>[/youtube]
HAHAHA, wicked hit! GO SOX!
..
Jays fire John Gibbons and half his coaching staff, bringing back Cito Gaston and half his coaching staff. I was never a big fan of Gibby but I had actually warmed up to him a bit this season - you really can't blame him for the fact his players have forgotten how to hit when guys are on base. But as is usually the case in pro sports you can't fire the players mid-season, so you fire the coach. And who knows, maybe Cito can turn this around....if he remembers how to manage that is, he's only been out of the game for about a decade. If not hopefully Riccarrdi will also be gone at the end of the season. Luckily they had the sense to keep pitching coach Brad Arnsberg - he's always been the mvp of this coaching staff.
The Horrible Esthete Wrote:To a man, I like Shapiro. Seems like a good guy, and I like the direction he has tried to go with the club. I wouldn't say that he and his staff cannot evaluate talent, but I would say that it seems that they don't know what to do with it once they get it.
There have been some successes.....signing Victor Martinez was like finding some hidden treasure. And the deal which sent Bartolo Colon to Montreal for Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips was one of the greatest steals of all time. Though, as we covered before, handing Phillips to the Reds for nothing in return hedged their gains on that one. I just cannot emphasize enough what a setback that was for Cleveland in this building process. They could have had the 2B position and a big top/middle-of-the-lineup bat locked up for years. And it looks like they are dying for some offense right now....
I apparently view Sizemore much differently than you. I love players with his skill set - incredible athlete (he also excelled at football and basketball), a great defensive outfielder (and true centerfielder), decent power, decent speed, can hit for average and draw walks. The only flaw I see is he whiffs a little too much. But I'll take his regular-season averages over Adam Dunn's any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Sure, Dunn crushes 40 moonshots a year and draws a gob of walks, yet he barely manages to drive in 100 runs because he strikes out 200 times and can't hit .250. He is a deplorable defensive outfielder, and has no speed. So what do you do with him? High OBP, but you can't hit him high in the order becuse he has no speed, can't hit for average, and can't move runners. Tremendous power, but when you hit him in the middle of the order, his Ks ruin scoring opportunities. You have to hit him low in the order, which wastes his only assests - his power and his ability to draw walks. On top of it all, he has no leadership qualities and absolutely no "fire" or "passion"....the dude is complacent, and losing just doesn't seem to bother him at all.
He needs to go metastasize in someone else's clubhouse.
I guess JP agrees with you about Dunn.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2008/06/19/ricciardi_dunn/">http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2008/0 ... ardi_dunn/</a><!-- m -->