PunBB

DUNN TRADED TO ARIZONA!

WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

:jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump

The dismantling of the 2008 woeful Indians continues with the trade of Paul Byrd to the Red Sox.....

Wonder why the Tribe hasn't completely thrown in the towel and traded Cliff Lee?

VioletlightHeron Wrote:The dismantling of the 2008 woeful Indians continues with the trade of Paul Byrd to the Red Sox...

... and the race to avoid last place in the AL Central gains even more drama.
Sigh.
I mean, go Royals! Fourth place in '08!

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:

tigerthelion Wrote:Aren't you the same guy who has defended Chad Johnson? :nooooo Yeah, there's a real positive clubhouse presence. :?

I defended Chad when the issues were "clowning" with the media, posting checklists in his locker of DBs who "couldn't cover him", guaranteeing wins, and sending DBs Pepto Bismol. I never defended any on-field spats with Carson, his tantrums about not getting the ball enough, or his trade demand$. I don't defend whiners and money-grubbing bitches.

So now that we've gotten that straight:

tigerthelion Wrote:Manny was supposed to be bad for chemistry last season, and they ended up keeping him and winning a championship. Manny was supposed to be bad for chemistry in 2004 and look who ended up winning.

Right. So this was the "Third Annual Manny Bitch Fest" -- and his antics became more divisive and more petulant each time. Apparently, Epstein didn't want to wind up paying $25 million to a 40-year old, and both he and Francona were sick enough of playing day-care provider to let Manny and his Big Bat go. They must think that the team may not be able to rise above his ego this time.

So I guess I trust that the Red Sox know what's best for themselves over what you think is best for them.

tigerthelion Wrote:Jason Bay will NEVER be as good as Manny, EVER. The gap will never be bridged. It's like, in hockey, Gretzky could score like no other, but plenty of guys could check, had more speed than Gretzky, could play better d than Gretzky. Could they bridge the gap? No, just like Bay will never bridge the gap with Manny. Speed? Oh yeah, Bay and his 7 stolen bases really shows great speed. :nooooo Baseball acumen? Oh dear heavens. :lol: :lol: I find it funny that Manny has less errors than Bay this season and more assists. :rambo:

Maybe he won't bridge the gap. It sure is a "safe bet" for you to say that he won't; Bay hasn't yet achieved the elite level of slugger that Manny has to this point. But he hasn't had anywhere NEAR the protection in the lineup that Manny has enjoyed for the last 8 years.

And nice job using the errors, assists, and steals from the current partial season to make your argument. That's not ...like...selective or anything.....

Bay has a better career fielding percentage than Manny. Bay has more career steals than Manny does in 1300 fewer games played. Bay would smoke Manny in a footrace -- he has played center field for gosh sakes. Can you imagine Man-Ram in center? :lol:

Of the two, Manny is clearly the superior slugger. And that, in and of itself, may be more valuable to the Sox lineup than having a more complete player (which Bay is). But again, the Sox seem to feel that when you factor in Manny's character issues and penchant for being a hothead and a whiny baby, Bay is better for them right now.

I'm inclined to think they know what they're doing.

Protection? Manny was a great player back in his Cleveland days. He doesn't need protection. He provided protection for Ortiz as much as it is the other way around. :rambo:

Stats for this season show how the players are CURRENTLY PLAYING. It is relevant. BTW, Bay is an average defender. The few more fly balls he gets in the outfield as opposed to Manny doesn't make up for...ya know what, nevermind. I don't know what will transpire in the future. I do know that all too many people forget just how much of an impact player that Manny really is. All I know is that, in the last 80 or so years, the Sox have 2 World Series Championships with Manny Ramirez as their LFer and zero without him.

I'm inclined to think the Red Sox aren't as smart as you perceive them to be. They do have enough money to trade for high salary players over and over until they get it right, though. Kudos to them for that, I suppose. :what If Bay works out, great. If he doesn't work out, the Sox will just load up and get a high priced outfielder to replace him next year or whenever.

VioletlightHeron Wrote:The dismantling of the 2008 woeful Indians continues with the trade of Paul Byrd to the Red Sox.....

Wonder why the Tribe hasn't completely thrown in the towel and traded Cliff Lee?

It's smart of the Tribe to trade away as many players like Byrd as they can. CC was gonna leave after the season, Blake is old and doesn't have much time left, Byrd sucks anyway. I'm not sure if Shapiro, the dumbass, got as much for CC as he could have, but we'll have to wait to see how that turns out. Hafner is a bust and Carmona might turn out to be a one year wonder. The future doesn't look good in Cleveland. Sizemore, their supposed stud, is hitting around .270. Lee might win the Cy Young, which is very little consolation. Shapiro and Dolan don't really want to win. Dolan isn't willing to spend any money and Shapiro keeps getting the likes of Kobayashi and Delucci and tries to con the fans into thinking they were big pickups. cratch:

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:DUNN TRADED TO ARIZONA!

WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

:jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump :jump

I thought you'd love that! :lol: :lol: :lol:

VioletlightHeron Wrote:Wonder why the Tribe hasn't completely thrown in the towel and traded Cliff Lee?

Lee is under contract for only $5.75 Million in '09; they have a club option on him for 2010 at $8 million. Those are bargain prices for how well he's pitched. They'd be nuts to trade him.

Byrd's a free agent next year, and they were faced with the futility of paying out the rest of his 2008 contract ($7.5 Million) just to get one compensatory pick in the draft if he declared FA. Probably a smart move to get something for him while they could.

I'm watching the Jays-Rays game right now and it makes me wonder how Tampa still has a franchise. It's nearly September and this is a first place team, yet there is nobody there to watch them. I know the Jays aren't exactly a marquee opponent but come on people this is ridiculous.

grimes Wrote:I'm watching the Jays-Rays game right now and it makes me wonder how Tampa still has a franchise. It's nearly September and this is a first place team, yet there is nobody there to watch them. I know the Jays aren't exactly a marquee opponent but come on people this is ridiculous.

i was thinkin something along those lines last evening, what a great effort by Purcey, that catch to end the game was pretty intense

tigerthelion Wrote:Sizemore, their supposed stud, is hitting around .270.

You are overly concerned about his BA. For a leadoff hitter, it's all about OBP. His leads all MLB CF at .382.

Dude is a 30/30 guy! And he has driven in 82 runs out of the leadoff position on what has been a sluggish team for most of the season. That is most definitely "studly".

You should have no issues with this guy. If you consider all his skills (and not just select, over-emphasized skills), he is "elite" in every sense of the word.

kleh Wrote:

grimes Wrote:I'm watching the Jays-Rays game right now and it makes me wonder how Tampa still has a franchise. It's nearly September and this is a first place team, yet there is nobody there to watch them. I know the Jays aren't exactly a marquee opponent but come on people this is ridiculous.

i was thinkin something along those lines last evening, what a great effort by Purcey, that catch to end the game was pretty intense

It's just nice to know that another Jays pitcher can throw a complete and still lose this season. Sigh.

Watching the Red Sox-Yanks game, they were commenting on the piss poor attendance in Tampa and mentioned the series against the Jays as an exciting team that still can't draw -- well I think that's how it came off -- I was drinking at the time. It sounded like a good compliment for the Jays at least.

Cheers,

Pat

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:

tigerthelion Wrote:Sizemore, their supposed stud, is hitting around .270.

You are overly concerned about his BA. For a leadoff hitter, it's all about OBP. His leads all MLB CF at .382.

Dude is a 30/30 guy! And he has driven in 82 runs out of the leadoff position on what has been a sluggish team for most of the season. That is most definitely "studly".

You should have no issues with this guy. If you consider all his skills (and not just select, over-emphasized skills), he is "elite" in every sense of the word.

I'm not gonna lie to you. I didn't know his OBP was that high this season. He's definitely the best player on the team this season, excluding pitchers.

I have a question for you- do you think he's best served in the leadoff spot? With his increased power numbers, do you think hitting in the 3 spot would make him even better? I mean, one would think it would increase his RBI production. Maybe they need him hitting #1, though, and to be the catalyst. I wonder though, what would his numbers be like hitting in the 3 spot.

As for the Indians, I wish they had more speed. I like a team with speed, I really do. Kenny Lofton was the last guy I can think of on the Indians who was really a threat on the bases. Sizemore is a fast guy and a good base stealer, but I'd love to have another few guys in the lineup who were real threats to steal and hit and run with a lot. I'd love to have a guy like Ichiro on the basepaths. Grady is fourth in steals though, and has 34 steals and has only been caught 3 times. WOW. Another suprising stat. Maybe the days of 70+ steals is over. Speed is much more exciting to me than just seeing guys try to swing for the fences. You know what I'm talking about? That feeling of watching a playoff game and seeing the leadoff guy get a walk or single. Then, watching the game within the game between the pitcher/catcher and the runner on first. Is he gonna go? What pitch is he gonna go on? Is he taking the focus off the pitcher too much? It's fascinating stuff. Seeing a guy turn a walk into basically a triple by stealing second and third base is just fantastic if you ask me. The Indians are such a boring team to watch. I'd wager that most of Grady's steals have been just him picking his spots, and not being called for by Wedge.

Can you believe that Milton Bradley has a .444 OBP this season? hock:

tigerthelion Wrote:I have a question for you- do you think he's best served in the leadoff spot? With his increased power numbers, do you think hitting in the 3 spot would make him even better? I mean, one would think it would increase his RBI production. Maybe they need him hitting #1, though, and to be the catalyst. I wonder though, what would his numbers be like hitting in the 3 spot.

I've actually wondered that very same thing myself this season. I think that the Indians are going to be forced to consider him in the 3 hole next year with his power numbers. They had probably hoped that they wouldn't have to put him there with the type of sluggers they thought they had in Hafner and Martinez, but after the way things have gone this season, they have to be very concerned about the middle of the linup.

What about this Choo kid? Does he have speed? He seems to have the ability to get on base. If he could hit leadoff, they could put Francisco in the 2-hole, Grady in the 3-hole, and Martinez at cleanup -?

tigerthelion Wrote:As for the Indians, I wish they had more speed. I like a team with speed, I really do. Kenny Lofton was the last guy I can think of on the Indians who was really a threat on the bases. Sizemore is a fast guy and a good base stealer, but I'd love to have another few guys in the lineup who were real threats to steal and hit and run with a lot. I'd love to have a guy like Ichiro on the basepaths. Grady is fourth in steals though, and has 34 steals and has only been caught 3 times. WOW. Another suprising stat. Maybe the days of 70+ steals is over. Speed is much more exciting to me than just seeing guys try to swing for the fences. You know what I'm talking about? That feeling of watching a playoff game and seeing the leadoff guy get a walk or single. Then, watching the game within the game between the pitcher/catcher and the runner on first. Is he gonna go? What pitch is he gonna go on? Is he taking the focus off the pitcher too much? It's fascinating stuff. Seeing a guy turn a walk into basically a triple by stealing second and third base is just fantastic if you ask me. The Indians are such a boring team to watch. I'd wager that most of Grady's steals have been just him picking his spots, and not being called for by Wedge.

I'm with ya. I'll go one further and say that not only does speed make for more exciting baseball, but the fascination with the long ball is hurting the overall quality of the game and is severely limiting teams. The Reds have been lacking in speed for a while too, and they are far too dependant upon HRs. The ability to "manufacture" runs with "smallball" is an important part of this game, and it has been a dying art. Teams that want to win championships better have some guys with speed and can manufacture single runs.

tigerthelion Wrote:Can you believe that Milton Bradley has a .444 OBP this season?

I picked him up as a FA early on in both my fantasy leagues, so I know all about Milton. He's an incredible middle-of-the-order guy, and doesn't get the 'pub' he deserves as a hitter. The problem with him is that he's a huge wuss. He cannot stay in the lineup. He has 370 AB compared to Hamilton's 536, and all his "injuries" are extremely minor - if not mythical.

The Horrible Esthete Wrote:What about this Choo kid? Does he have speed? He seems to have the ability to get on base. If he could hit leadoff, they could put Francisco in the 2-hole, Grady in the 3-hole, and Martinez at cleanup -?

Honestly, Choo was iffy at the beginning of the season to even stay on the roster as an outfielder with the Tribe. After seeing his production this season, I'm pretty sure he'll stick with the team. As far as I know, he has never been considered a leadoff type of hitter so I can't see him hitting in the #1 slot.

Here's a recent article about him, albeit a short one:

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Seems like someone needs a tissue. This is for you, Hank: