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Old vs New: LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE
#1

In the spirit of all the recent obsession with rankings and comparing 'old' vs 'new' Hip, I thought it might be preposterous fun to do a head-to-head battle between IBE and Road Apples. I know this is self-indulgent but I'm hoping it provokes some argument, so LET'S GET READY TO RUUUUUUMBLE!!!!!!!!!

IN THIS CORNER WEARING THE RED TRUNKS, THE WILY VETERAN ROAD APPLES.

AAAAAndD IN THIS CORNER IN YELLOW, THE CHALLENGER, IBE.

1. Little Bones vs Heaven.

LB: A classic rave-up, ferocious chorus, and some social commentary to boot.
Heaven: Layered lyric, but a largely unconvincing track. One of their weaker openers.
WINNER: BONES, BY KO.
SCORE: 1-0 Road Apples.

2. Twist My Arm vs Summer is Killing Us.

Twist: The Hip's ultimate gutbucket number. Entertaining lyrics; no tune to speak of.
Summer: A thoroughly demented send-up of the 'band complains about its job' genre in which Downie pushes more envelopes than Canada Post.
WINNER: SUMMER, ON POINTS.
SCORE: 1-1.

3. Cordelia vs Gus.

Cordelia: Another famous rave-up. Very strong lyrics and some of Downie's wackiest vocals.
Gus: Menacing study of psychosis combining great groove and lyrics that double as an attack on American imperialism.
WINNER: a draw.
SCORE: 2-2.

4. Luxury vs Vaccination Scar.

Luxury: a wonderful, slow-burning fuse and an early sign that this band is more than just balls-to-the-wall music. Great character sketch ('Zoo Lion').
Scar: terrific guitar work, magnificent lyrics. All that's missing is a compelling melody.
WINNER: The Luxury by TKO.
SCORE: 3-2 Road Apples.

5. Born in the Water vs Nashville.

Water: pedestrian rocker with a rather clumsy crack at Canada's language wars.
Nashville: stomping rhythm section, nice chorus and a sharp potshot at Bush's America.

WINNER: Nashville by KO.
SCORE: 3-3.

6. Long Time Running vs If new Orleans is Beat.

Running: powerful portrait of a young lover being pressed into commitment before his time. Simple, poignant guitar enhances the great lyric. If the world made any sense this would be rated a rock and roll classic.
INOIB: rather busy melody-line encompassing an elegant rumination on both the decline of America and the possible decline of the band itself. Great lyrical play on their signature tune.

WINNER: Running by TKO...barely.
SCORE: 4-3 Road Apples.

7. Bring It All Back vs You're Everywhere.

Bring It: a neat lyric with a suitably obsessive musical structure. Nice opportunity for Baker to stretch out a bit on guitar.
You're Everywhere: one of the Hip's finest moments, with an impassioned vocal, haunting lyric, cool progression and perfectly-pitched guitar work.

WINNER: Everywhere by KO.
SCORE: 4-4.

8. Three Pistols vs Makeshift.

Pistols: Does it get much more kick-ass than this? Perhaps Gord's single most warped recorded vocal performance. Great lyric against a primitive rock backdrop.
Makeshift: Similarly anthemic chords back one of the band's catchiest choruses and tight, enigmatic lyrics. Vocals mixed too low.

WINNER: Hoo boy. I'll call it a draw.
SCORE: 5-5.

9. Fight vs Mean Streak.

Fight: straightforward, serviceable song that could have been written by any number of average-to-good bands.
Mean Streak: a strange, complex, and disturbing play on western motifs, with a deadly, on-target vocal that still manages somehow to kick ass. Menacing as only the Hip can be.

WINNER: Mean Streak by KO.
SCORE: 6-5 IBE.

10. On the Verge vs Heart of the Melt.

Verge: hugely fun lyrics with a blistering vocal. Run-of-the-mill melody, but a good rave-up.
Melt: features about 30 seconds of the most savagely orgasmic guitar- work on any Hip CD (the final bars), hair-raising chorus ('dorsal fin') and a truly memorable, spine-tingling vocal. Are you kidding me?

WINNER: Melt by KO.
Score: 7-5 IBE.

11. Fiddler's Green vs Copanhagen.

Green: a gorgeous, heartfelt lyric and arguably one of their best pieces of songwriting. Great, soulful vocal: a classic (and unfortunately rare) example of the Hip as muscular folk-country band.
Copanhagen: a favourite in some circles; one of Downie's finest poems is set to a repetitive melody that quickly palls.

WINNER: Green by KO.
Score: 7-6 IBE.

12. Last of the Unplucked Gems vs Are We Family

Gems: a neat little construction with an unexpectedly Beatlesque sound and deviously clever lyric. Hints at an unheralded musical versatility.
Are We Family: terrific play on Sister Sledge cliche. Thundering rhythm section keeps the tune out of 'airy-fairy' territory; a unique sonic landscape for this band and, for that reason alone---plus catchiness and its much-needed lyrical sentiment---should have been a US single.

WINNER: a draw.
Score: 8-7 IBE.

13. Goodnight Josephine.

An extra track that could be considered an unfair advantage over Road Apples, but this is a very memorable tune. Nice shift in tone from the mild verse into the bridge, and a powerful lyric.

WINNER: Jospehine by default. But probably would have won anyway.
Score: 9-7 IBE.

THE WINNER AND NEW CHAMPION...

IN BETWEEN EVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mrgreen:
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#2

I differ slightly...I'd give Cordelia the outright win over Gus, take VS over Luxury, 3 pistols outright over Makeshift (though I love Makeshift, 3 Pistols is top shelf Hip stuff in my view, same situation with Cordelia over Gus) and Unplucked outright over Are We Family.

That would make my tally: IBE 7 RA 6 (only because of Josephine does IBE get the nod, deservedly so, its my favorite on the album).
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#3

3 Pistols Destroys Makeshift!!! :rambo:

Imagine a world before the "beginning was the word.”
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#4

Oh, for the love of silliness... Tongue :lol:
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#5

the way i see it

Bones and Heaven is a draw
SIKU gets its ass handed to it by Twist My Arm
Gus puts up a good fight with Cordelia, but loses in the end
Vaccination Scar edges out The Luxury in a close one
Nashville stomps all over Born In The Water
INOIB rides the pines
You're Everywhere puts up a valliant effort but can't defeat Long Time
Makeshift takes Bring It All Back
Meanstreak is raped by Three Pistols
At The Heart Of The Melt outfights Fight for the W
Copenhagen is sitting beside INOIB on the bench
Are We Family and Fiddler's Green refuse to fight each other
Josephine and Gems KO each other at the very last second, draw

wow, it's a tie
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#6

Uh, you can't compare the albums that way.
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#7

guess what...I JUST DID! BOOOOO YAAAAAAAA!
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#8

The Darkest Canuck Wrote:guess what...I JUST DID! BOOOOO YAAAAAAAA!


haha, I love it! :thumb:
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#9

I loooooved reading this thread. I agree giving Cordelia and Gus a tie. But Pistols does indeed blow Makeshift out of the water. Which would make it a tie no? Or would it still be 8-6? Baaa!!! Anyhow, both are killer albums. I think I'd still take RA over IBE bot oh well. Very well thought out thread. Awesome.

Jeff

Jeff

June 21, 2003 Toronto, ON: SkyDome
July 1, 2004 Toronto, ON: Molson Amphitheatre
November 26, 2004 Toronto, ON: Air Canada Centre
June 24, 2006 Toronto, ON: Historic Fort York
May 10, 2007 Indianapolis, IN: The Vogue
July 14, 2011 Edmonton, AB: Northlands Festival Site
June 30, 2012 Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON: The Commons at Butler's Barracks
January 23, 2013 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
July 28, 2016 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
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#10

Glad you liked it, Fingernails. Unfortunately my little exercise hasn't generated the discussion I hoped it would. But it's a really fun thing to do :thumb:

I stand by Gus/Cordelia being a tie, but the consensus is probably right that Pistols beats Makeshift (although they're quite different songs, hard to compare). On the other hand, I've since concluded that 'Family' beats 'Gems' because it's a more ambitious 'major' song where Gems---while perfect---is a modest tune by definition. So my number stays the same, for what it's worth.
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#11

Well, I'll offer my two cents...

I like Makeshift, but Three Pistols KICKS ITS ASS!!!

Luxury beats Scar? No way! Scar all the way. Luxury is boring after two minutes, and I skip it more than any other song on Road Apples.

And Gems takes Are We Family anyday. The live jams in Gems offer so much more than the repetitive riff of Family. Family's a good song, but I'll be tired of it soon.

So I would have declared it an outright tie. I can't elevate either album above the other. They're both towering examples of CanRock, and both powerful testaments to the band we love.
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#12

This is a neat idea, sure it's a little silly and hard to compare 2 albums, but when you look at it as "old" vs "new", it's a good metaphor. I am not one of those who bash the new stuff, but I have to say, for me, the old stuff is always going to win. Having said that I really, really like Music At Work and I thought IVL was also a great album. IBE on the other hand just doesn't seem to catch my imagination...I'm hoping that might change when I see some of the new songs live a couple of weeks from now.

My take on the comparison:
-Bones, Twist, Cordelia, Long Time, Three Pistols, Verge & Fiddler's Green all win hands down...no contest.
-You're Everywhere, Mean Streak & Family probably rate as 3 ties for IBE to at least get on the board. If Gems had a little more stamina (i.e. was more than 2 minutes long) it would probably get the decision, but we'll leave it as a tie with Family.
-Vaccination Scar wins a split decision over Luxury, not because of VS being that strong, but we'll call Luxury the weakest entry from RA.
-That leaves Nashville as the only outright winner from IBE.

That gives Road Apples a record of 7 wins, 1 loss, 3 ties and 1 OT loss.

My favorite album seems to vary between Up to Here, Fully Completely and Day for Night...then I look back at Road Apples, and wonder how can it be as low as #4 on the list!

Jay
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#13

Interesting to see the variety in people’s tastes.

Mine differ pretty significantly from what the general consensus appears to be. In my world, Road Apples wins in a rout over IBE. This is because I don’t think anything on IBE is as good as Bones, Cordelia, Bring It All Back, Fight, or Pistols. I do think that SIKU, Nashville, and Gus might be better songs than the other seven Road Apples cuts, but not by far....
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#14

Little Bones leading off and Twist My Arm hitting number two. Gus is out of luck against Cordelia in the hits-for-average spot, but Vaccination wins the battle of the clean up hitters against The Luxury, both of whom are in a bit of a slump. IBE really gets going with number five Nashville. NOIB beats LTR, just because I never quite loved LTR as much as some people (where's that leave you and me?). You're where? You're Everywhere and you're all over number seven. Then we get into some serious pyrotechnics: How can Three Pistols be beat? Well, if anybody wants to try, they should try being Makeshift. At the end of the day, however, Three Pistol's strong and its hitting number eight. Fight is a fighter, not a lover - and takes ninth spot.

Hitting around to the Top of the Order is the Heart of the Melt (On the Verge, my friends, is a poor man's Three Pistols). Batting eleventh (?!) One Night in Copenhagen stands up and knocks one out of the park, while Fiddler's slumps dejectedly in the bullpen. Last but not least is Last of the Unplucked Gems, an enigmatic young pinch hitter, who just can't not stop not getting the job done.

And pitching a frickin' perfect game: Goodnight Josephine.

Final Score: 6 a piece. Go figure.

CT
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