[direwolf74]

Johnny's drumming was never better than when Rock was behind the desk; his drumming on Rink goes places he never went before. Rock got the best vocal performances out of Downie, and some great guitar work out of Rob Baker. Family Band and Drop Off are great examples of this. While I may object to the final product on some of the songs, from a strictly performance perspective, this is some of their best work.

Can't argue with any of that. There are definitely some fantastic individual performances on this record, especially on Rink, Kids, Family, Drop-Off, Last Night I Dreamed, and Luv Sic. And not surprisingly, those are the songs where Rock's production actually works pretty well with the material.

[potsie]

This album marks the beginning of a decline in the quality of Hip recorded output that was finally halted with the release of MMP (IBE > WC > WATS > NFPA). That being said, there are certainly some keepers on this one (Ocean, Rink, Luv (sic), Family Band, Kids, and Drop-off).

The lyrics on WC are less cryptic than on previous releases. Gord is not holding his cards as close to his chest. There is an emotional honesty and vulnerability on this album that up to this point had been fairly infrequent in Hip lyrics (whereas an album like Introduce Yerself is nothing but). “I love you, you know I do, Yeah, it's perfect, Well, it isn't and it is” is as straightforward and uncomplicated as Gord’s writing has ever been around the topic of love.

The elasticity of Gord’s singing is what really strikes me about this album. He’s got all bases covered here, ranging from the lounge stylings of Pretend to the yelling of Drop-Off. Nearly every song is a different voice, not an easy accomplishment and not something that is as readily found on other Hip albums. Luv (Sic) is a good example of this. There are three different voices on this song: softer verse-Gord, louder chorus-Gord, and then a screamo-lite Gord version in the outro.

As for production, I don’t get the hand wringing and teeth gnashing over Bob Rock’s work. I think the Hip “sounds” great on the album. If I could pinpoint one issue that I don’t like, it’s the addition of piano and keys on the songs. I enjoy a synth pop keyboard sound but the piano and keys on this album, specifically Pretend, In View, and World Container, don’t work for me. I don’t think we can lay this entirely at the feet of Bob Rock. He may have suggested these additions (or maybe it was the Hip’s idea) but the Hip circa 2005/06 was not a callow band to be easily pushed over by some dictating producer. I’m sure they could have easily vetoed any of Bob’s suggestions. I think the blame could probably be equally spread between the two. And when it comes to recording, I’d be remiss not to mention that the song “Spoon” certainly conjures up a positive feeling that Gord had in Hawaii recording with Rock.

“You were five, we were working with Bob in Maui
Driving a rental Sebring, the top down
Every morning we'd drive on down to Baby Beach
And the Pacific Ocean's not the sea”

Thoughts on a few songs:

Rink – I think this would have made the perfect opener for the album. That opening guitar gives me chills. The debut of the song on Hockey Night in Canada, scoring a montage with Foster Hewitt’s voice in the background, is indelibly stamped on my brain. While I enjoy 50 MC, I prefer the greater sophistication of the lyrics of Rink, thus making it for me the Hip’s best “hockey song”.

Moof referenced a Franz Ferdinand influence on this song and I definitely hear it. I love Johnny’s “dance rock” drum beat, something that was popular during the synth-rock period of the early and mid 2000’s (seemingly ushered in by the Killer’s debut album Hot Fuss). Bob Rock is a master at getting great drum sounds, Tommy Lee’s kick drum sound on Dr. Feelgood being a great example. Johnny sounds exceptional on most of the WC songs, Rink being the best example.

Fly – In addition to In View, this song seems like most overt attempt at a pop song on the album. I find the chorus grating and disposable. If I can label one song in the Hip canon as being “annoying”, it’s “Fly”

In View – This is economical song writing, something which Downie employed to great effect on Secret Path, and which he eschewed entirely, to the detriment of the songs, on M@W. I like the simplicity of the song. The band was no doubt thinking “radio” on this one, and while they didn’t hit a pop music homerun, they got a stand-up triple with this one.

Luv (sic) – One of my favourites on the record. Love that bass sound from Sinclair on this one.

Pretend – Dull and bland.

Last Night – This one is rescued from the bottom of the pile by Robbie’s solo. It doesn’t redeem the song entirely, but without it this should have never made the album.

The Drop-Off – Feverish. One of the most exciting things the Hip has ever put down. Gord’s singing voice on this one would get him kicked out of the Sunday choir, and I suspect an isolated vocal track of this song, particularly on the first verse and chorus, would be cringeworthy. However, it all works beautifully when set against the music. And “Yer a comet from earth in a Kiss Alive shirt Saying "Holy F**k it's Jesus” is one of my favourite (of many) Downie f**Ks to sing out loud in the car.

[potsie]

Yet funnily enough, even some of the rockers sound better on WATS. Specifically, 'Speed River' and 'The Exact Feeling' actually sound like a band playing rock and roll, rather than a band playing rock and roll and then having it fed through some sort of tacky, plastic Bob Rock production filter.

True, yet neither of those are very good songs. The way I see it, the production values on WATS are superior to those on WC, but WC contains better songs. While both characteristics are quite relevant in evaluating music, the latter is more important to me in how I enjoy an album. I can enjoy a good song with poor production (e.g. World Container title track, Smalltown Bringdown), but it's much harder for me to enjoy a poor song with good production values (e.g. The Exact Feeling).

[andrew sharpe]

I love the vocal melody in the song WC...the metre is original, complex (try to count the syllables...they don't even match and yet sonically they match perfectly) and satisfying and I love how Gord packs the verses together. And the "Cleveland" line has to be one of his best ever written about life in a world famous band.

This album was a real grower for me. At first I liked it, then I decided I didn't...and with time I'm starting to love it. Similar trajectory as IBE. I think WATS will be next on my "learning to love" list.

[potsie]

I love the vocal melody in the song WC...the metre is original, complex (try to count the syllables...they don't even match and yet sonically they match perfectly) and satisfying and I love how Gord packs the verses together. And the "Cleveland" line has to be one of his best ever written about life in a world famous band.

I've always thought "Cleveland" was a stand-in for the "Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame" (located, obviously, in Cleveland, and which seems to be your interpretation as well) and having "made it", but I've never been able to make much sense of that in terms of the overall context of the song. I suppose the line "Go past the 'No Attractions Past This Point' sign" could also be referring to hall-of-fame exhibits... bands that are in the wings, not having yet made it, off in the shadows where the craft is being worked on... where there are flaws in progress. "Bunk" could also be referring to sleeping quarters on a tour bus. There is a lot going on this song and it's a difficult one to piece together.

[Killer Whale Tank]

potsie, I'm not convinced the songs on WC are all that great, so from my point of view the distinction - while valid in theory - doesn't apply here. For that matter, I don't get why "The Exact Feeling" is a bad song. ("Speed River" I can see) while the stuff on WC isn't. Otherwise put, I don't see what makes the average composition on WC better than "The Exact Feeling." I won't bore people with track-by-track criticisms, but the album as a whole is best forgotten in my books. Just not hearing it.

[potsie]

potsie, I'm not convinced the songs on WC are all that great, so from my point of view the distinction - while valid in theory - doesn't apply here. For that matter, I don't get why "The Exact Feeling" is a bad song. ("Speed River" I can see) while the stuff on WC isn't. Otherwise put, I don't see what makes the average composition on WC better than "The Exact Feeling." I won't bore people with track-by-track criticisms, but the album as a whole is best forgotten in my books. Just not hearing it.

If you are asking me to explain why I think "The Exact Feeling" is a 'bad' song, I'll take a shot. In my opinion this song falls short of anything on WC, save Pretend. It plods along at a lumbering pace (unlike you, I wouldn't classify it as a "rocker"). There is very little vocal contrast between the verse, bridge and chorus. If you didn't know the song title, you won't know "For the exact feeling" is a chorus. For example, Gord opens the song singing "The exact feeling" and in the chorus he again sings "For the exact feeling" and these two phrases are sung in almost an identical manner. This leaves very little to distinguish the chorus from the opening line of the song. In contrast, what I like about Gord's singing on World Container is the stretching of his voice, not in the sense of trying to reach for the highest notes, but in a sense of using different planes of his vocal register to create a diverse sonic palette. He does this well all throughout WC (the album), in particularly on Luv (sic) as I pointed out above.

My second problem with the song is that the melody (which is barely discernible here) feels like it was imposed upon the words, rather than helped by them. The lines of "I'm up to my torch, I'm up to my tits, Maybe I've got no more interest" are an example of this. He sings them like you'd read them off a page. In addition, the music also does not aid the melody. It's not a song you are likely to find yourself humming along to.

Thirdly, this song is one of the few times that I don't connect with Gord's words. Admittedly I'm so bored by the song and lack of melody, that I don't care what he has to say (one of the very few times I can say that about a Hip song). The song ends and it feels like nothing has happened. I was not taken on a journey, musically or otherwise, I was not enlightened by interesting lyrics, I was not entertained by the music. A song that has none of those things going for it needs to be re-worked or simply dropped from an album. I have a suspicion that I'm not alone in my sentiment about the song, but if "The Exact Feeling" happens to make the final four of the WATS poll (instead of going out in the first round like I think it should) I'll be forced to re-examine my 'exact feelings' about it!

[Killer Whale Tank]

Good reply, thanks! You make a valid point about the uninspired chorus (although I suspect the primary reason I like the song all right and you don't is that you see the beat and tempo as plodding, whereas I rather enjoy that midtempo clomp - quite a different feel from the normal Hip stuff). But notice that it didn't say it's a great song. I just don't see that it is worse than most of the stuff on WC, as a composition. Again, apart from killer writing (but problematic vocals) on "Drop Off," the demented fun of "Kids," the touching ballad buried under the histrionics of "Rink," the solid pop of "Family Band," and the moving last line of the otherwise bloated title track, there is little about WC that impresses me at all.

[FourPistols]

So I’ll just add my two cents on World Container.

First, I love the title track. It’s one of the Hip’s most moving songs. In fact I was kinda hoping they’d close the Kingston show with it.The lyrics here are extraordinary. All songs are one song and that song is don’t forget. Holy crap. That says worlds. How’d it get this late so early? I wonder that often, and there’s a line that proved all too true in the past few years for the man who penned that line. If people don’t like the keyboards, okay, fine. To me, it’s still an immensely powerful song.

As many have said, Family Band and The Dropoff are raw and great.

I think Rink has some wonderful lyrics even if the song maybe only half takes off.

Ocean is a solid opener, but prob only that.

I do like In View. It’s a pop song, yes. So U2 and Springsteen can write pop songs, but the Hip can’t? I don’t agree. It’s catchy and it has some nice heartfelt lyrics. I’m fine with it.

I also like Fly. I think that’s a really good one. I love Freddie Mercury so that line is right up my alley. I think Gord is sharing something of himself here. There are places I’ve never been and always wanted to go. What’s he saying here? That he wishes the Hip had found a more commercial path? It’s a very interesting lyric and there are a few lyrics along these lines on this album, which makes me think Gord had a million ambitions and just as many emotions.

[daylight]

If you were to take the best of WC and WATS you'd have one serviceable album.

As it is we ended up with two spotty-at-best albums. The highs on WC are higher in my opinion, but WATS doesn't have Pretend on it so that has to count for something.

Ocean
Rink
Luv (sic)
Kids
Drop-Off
Family Band
World Container (without all the bells and whistles)

Morning Moon
Recluse
Maybe pick one of Struggle and Depression
Maybe Frozen
Maybe Love is a First
...actually, wait, WATS is way worse than I remembered

[schaggs]

You guys are all crazy. I've been listening to this album all day on repeat. WC is a great album, *nearly* start to finish.

[Moof_Milker]

You guys are all crazy. I've been listening to this album all day on repeat. WC is a great album, *nearly* start to finish.

I'm with you on this. I feel like with this album the boys rolled up their sleeves, cranked the amps up to 11 and said, "Let's make a fuckin' rock n' roll record!" If it's too slick or too glossy in parts for some, so be it. That's cool. For me, it's a great record all the way through...and whenever I put it on I'm ready to grip the city and hit the town :thumb:

[loach]

If you were to take the best of WC and WATS you'd have one serviceable album.

As it is we ended up with two spotty-at-best albums. The highs on WC are higher in my opinion, but WATS doesn't have Pretend on it so that has to count for something.

Ocean
Rink
Luv (sic)
Kids
Drop-Off
Family Band
World Container (without all the bells and whistles)

Morning Moon
Recluse
Maybe pick one of Struggle and Depression
Maybe Frozen
Maybe Love is a First
...actually, wait, WATS is way worse than I remembered

Maybe Depression? I think that's in the upper echelon of Hip songs. I'll leave it at that until the WATS insight thread.

[fingernailsonhull]

If you were to take the best of WC and WATS you'd have one serviceable album.

As it is we ended up with two spotty-at-best albums. The highs on WC are higher in my opinion, but WATS doesn't have Pretend on it so that has to count for something.

Ocean
Rink
Luv (sic)
Kids
Drop-Off
Family Band
World Container (without all the bells and whistles)

Morning Moon
Recluse
Maybe pick one of Struggle and Depression
Maybe Frozen
Maybe Love is a First
...actually, wait, WATS is way worse than I remembered

Maybe Depression? I think that's in the upper echelon of Hip songs. I'll leave it at that until the WATS insight thread.

Depression is great. Struggle is horrible. The guitars - yech.

[Escape@Hand]

You guys are all crazy. I've been listening to this album all day on repeat. WC is a great album, *nearly* start to finish.

I'm with you, I don't get the hate. My wrath is saved for the abomination that is MMP. :mrgreen:

WC is a solid album; it may not be their musical apex but there are lots of great tunes and, as usual, great lyrics. How an album with Ocean, Kids, Drop off and Family Band can garner so much negative emotion somewhat baffles me. I'd rank this album solidly in the middle of their cannon, above M@W, WATS, MMP, UPT, and maybe RA. Hmm...where's that thread where we ranked all their albums, I'll have to double check that. I think I ranked M@W too high in that list at the time. Maybe it's because I saw them so many times on the WC tour, but I think it's a solid album overall; I can get into pretty much every song on the album, including Pretend (I love the passion of the vocals at the end of the song..."You can't Pretend, yes I can, Yes I can, YES I CAN!").