[edgoffin]

This should be a fun one.

Released October 17, 2006.

Yer Not the Ocean
The Lonely End of the Rink
In View
Fly
Luv(sic)
The Kids Don't Get It
Pretend
Last Night I Dreamed You Didn't Love Me
The Drop-Off
Family Band
World Container

Produced by Bob Rock, whose list of credits is so long I'll just say if you listen to music there's a good chance he was involved. Sort of forgotten, due to his producer credits, is his earlier musical success with the Payolas and Rock and Hyde. I suspect there will be a lot of venom towards Rock, but it may still not match the anger you'll find from hardcore Metallica fans (I'm not one, but I do like reading some of the music forums specifically about the Black album.)

I'm going to possibly be a contrarian, and say I really like this album. I had generally not liked M@W, and while I now appreciate them IVL and IBE were two albums that it took me years to really get into. Could have been a case of life events, or other music. WC came out at what was likely the right time for me, and was the first Hip album in a longtime that I really appreciated and embraced right at its release.

I said it in an earlier thread, but I find their producer choices always interesting. Earlier in their career, in retrospect I'm surprised at some of the "heavy weights" they were able to work with, either as an unproven band or with limited international reputation. As they progressed, the choices they made generally seem to fit with what's needed with the next album.

I like the roughness, one-take sound of IBE. At the same time, while the records were still selling, I don't think the band's audience was significantly growing. While I think the band rarely made any decisions for commercial purposes, and instead passed up many opportunities for significant commercial gain over their 30 years, I would guess there was a bit of internal (and likely more so external) pressure for a more accessible album that would return the band to a wider audience. While I remained a fan, I know for many they'd pretty much dropped off the radar over the past two albums.

For lack of a better word, with WC Rock polished the edges. When you look at Rock's career, that's really how he's found success -- everything becomes a bit more concise and tighter. Two good examples would be The Cult, or Veruca Salt. In one case, I think he helped (I prefer Electric, but Sonic Temple is decent) and in the other he ruined it (Veruca Salt's debut was great, 8 Arms was neutered garbage). With WATS I think Rock polished too far, but that's for later.

As for the album, I think in listening to IBE more over recent weeks and moving on to WC, Gord went from one of his most lyrically complex albums to something a bit more straightforward. The allusions are a bit easier to understand.

I do recall being a bit taken aback by In View, and the keyboard riff always reminds for a SNL Christmas skit with Jimmy Fallon playing a keyboard. But the band seemed to enjoy playing it live, and it was the first time in a few years that I heard the band return the radio.

Two songs really make the album for me.

For a band that wrote a lot of great hockey related songs, Lonely End of the Rink is my favorite. I like that opening riff, and then when the drums kick in, and it's a pretty cool acoustic solo by Rob. Mostly I played goalie, and (stupidly for letting him) one of my kids now plays goal. At its simplest interpretation, it's the greatest song ever about goalies, parents, relationships, being part of a team but not really part of a team -- you're in this alone, and I can watch but not help.

Drop-Off has some of my favorite Gord in studio vocal deliveries. His "whooo" feels like an accomplishment. I'd love to see video of him recording this track in the studio.

It's also maybe the album where they most showed their influences beyond the usual blues rock cited bands from earlier in their career (easy to hear some Bowie, Clash, Iggy, Pink Floyd) and it was interesting that they chose to play covers to close sets on this tour. It was also maybe the tour when I most noticed Gord turn into a "performer", with painting the audience, tossing handkerchiefs, etc. I ended up seeing numerous shows on this tour, but sadly passed up the one I should have gone to when they inexplicably played the All In Lounge in Akwesasne. I do know one guy who went to the show, and his memories are pretty amusing. It was also the band's last real large scale arena tour until MMP.

For vinyl enthusiasts, this LP reissue is very solid and has some revelations. Gord's vocal presence in the mix is striking. Pretend, a song I hadn't been too keen on, is an entirely different presentation on the vinyl format (mostly much better separation, and you can better appreciate Rob's guitar work).

I expect this record will get a lot of hate, but I've always enjoyed it and when ranking the albums it's always higher up on my list than I'd expect. I'll save my hate for the next album, where I think Rock went from helping the band to hindering them. But again, I know there's a lot of members who really like that album....but that conversation will be for a few weeks down the road.

[Moof_Milker]

I have a theory that how you feel about WC depends on how you feel about IBE. For those who loved IBE, I'm guessing you were disappointed by WC. For those who were disappointed by IBE, you may have really liked WC. Maybe. I guess this thread will test this theory.

Here are my thoughts on Hip albums leading up to WC:
M@W: I liked it but thought it had too much fat on it. It lacked some focus.
IVL: I liked it but thought it sounded a little too clinical. A little too clean/sterile sounding.
IBE: I liked the production but was somewhat underwhelmed by the songs
WC: I liked because the songs were big and tight. (<-other may dislike it for these same reasons)

I do have to admit that after listening to WC immediately after listening to IBE can give you the bends. It's quite a tonal shift...but a welcome one for me. Are you like me in that you remember where you were the first heard a new Hip song? I remember driving in my car when I first heard In View...and my initial thought was, "WTF is this???" The Hip made a pop song?" Yikes! But it grew on me. Big time. I love In View. And I love World Container. A big, bold record that oozed with drive and urgency. Songs like Lonely End of The Rink, Yer Not The Ocean, Kids Don't Get It, In View, Love(Sic), Family Band and The Drop Off stand up there with the best of the Hip's material. I look forward to hearing what others think.

[Escape@Hand]

I was living in Edmonton when this album was released, and got to two of the pre-tour warm up shows in Calgary, which were incredible (got to hear every song of WC live), and all told, I saw them 7 times on this tour, including two "post-tour" shows in Belleville in the summer of 2008 and also when they opened the arena in Kingston (which was another epic night). I did have the pleasure (horror?) of seeing the last show of the official tour in Hogansburg, NY. The bands set that night was not too inspired, but the whole atmosphere was a complete gong show and it is easily one of the most memorable concerts, and nights, in my life.

This was the first time I saw multiple shows on a tour, and I'm glad I took that opportunity. I really liked WC when it came out, and never understood some of the hate for this album. Yes, I get the whole too-polished, Bob Rock thing, but say what you will, no one got a better vocal performance out of Gord Downie. His vocals on this and WATS are far and away his best singing, and I love how Rock really pushed the band's performances musically. Johnny's drums parts are very exciting, and nuanced (see LEOTR), there are a lot of great rock tunes (don't know how I will vote on the weakest link between The Drop Off and Family Band) and the band pushed in some new directions without straying from who they are.

There are so many great songs on this album, and even though I heard it a lot on the tour, I was glad to catch some of the songs in Victoria on the MMP tour. Family Band, Ocean, Drop Off are all classic Hip tunes, imho, and there are lots of other great songs that fly under the radar, like Kids and Fly. For me the only "lull" is LNIDYDLM - it's not bad but I don't think it holds up as well to the rest of the album, and yes, I include Pretend in that statement. I actually really enjoy that song.

[edgoffin]

and also when they opened the arena in Kingston (which was another epic night).

The Kingston arena opener was great, after seeing this show I never missed another at KRock. I also saw them the night, or maybe two nights, before in the warm-up show in Brockville. It was pretty cool to see them in a theater after so many years, but I mainly remember is being really loud (like arena levels in a 800 seat room).

[ryan93]

I saw them a couple of times during this era. First at the 06 Festival of Lights show in Charlottetown, which included both yer not the ocean and lonely end of the rink on the set list. Both songs were great live and I was really anticipating the release of this album. I for one was not disappointed, I loved the album 10 years ago & I still love it today. I’ve been looking forward to this poll for a while now, knowing how so many of you fellow hipbasers have such varying opinions on WC.. The 2007 WC show in a Charlottetown was one of my favourite live Hip shows I’ve attended. Was front row/centre and the band sounded incredible, so tight!

[direwolf74]

Similar to my thoughts on IBE, this album is a hit and miss affair, with some really great songs surrounded by a few duds.

As far as choosing Bob Rock to produce it, I get the impression that the Hip were purposely aiming for a tighter, brighter, slicked-up rock album that would get them back on the radio. And if that's indeed what they were going for, I'd say they succeeded for the most part. In View was arguably their biggest hit since MM@W. I remember hearing that song everywhere at the time: on the radio, at the mall, at the grocery store, at the movie theatre, and it also got heavy airplay on top 40 mainstream pop stations.

This is a Bob Rock album through and through, with layers upon layers of overdubs and all sorts of bells and whistles. The production works surprisingly well on the big rock numbers and actually suits the material (Rink, Kids, Drop-Off, Luv Sic, Family Band). But on the mellower tracks, oh boy, where do I begin. World Container (the song) is the worst offender of the bunch, with the Bob Rock cheese factor cranked right to 11. The tasteless production makes it sound like a fucking b-side from the Top Gun soundtrack. Just awful on every level, save for Gord's wonderful lyrics and vocal delivery. The same could be said for songs like Pretend, Fly, and In View, all of which would have benefited greatly from a more scaled back Adam Kasper-like approach. But no, Bob just couldn't restrain himself and had to slather on layers of keyboards, synthesizers, multi-tracked vocals, and corny 80s-style guitars.

My take on the songs:

Yer Not the Ocean: A damn solid pop song almost ruined by Rock's excessive production and Gord overdoing it on his vocals. Live versions of this song were much better.

Lonely End of the Rink: Excellent hard-driving rocker and also a touching story about Gord's relationship with his dad. The music always reminds me of the Police, particularly the guitars and the reggae style rhythm. Other than 50 Mission Cap, this might qualify as the most overtly Canadian song they've ever written.

In View: A fun, energetic pop song that's grown on me over the years. I hated the keyboard part when I first heard it, but now I can't picture the song without it. Even when they played it live, I would still have that keyboard bit playing in my head. The bridge is my favorite part of the song: "In the day eraser's dark of night, excited states gone in plain sight..." That's good stuff.

Fly: Hate, hate, hate this song. One of the worst things they've ever done, on par with other clunkers like Are You Ready, Wild Mountain Honey, and Summer's Killing Us.

Luv (Sic): I dig this one. Great vocals from Gord, and I love the guitar work.

The Kids Don't Get It: Hands down my favorite song on the album. Very Clash-like in it's composition and rhythm, with excellent guitar work from Rob and Paul and a fierce, passionate vocal from Gord. Fantastic lyrics as well.

Pretend: Easily one of the weaker tracks on the album. Should have been stripped down to just acoustic guitars and Gord singing, or just left off the album entirely. From a songwriting standpoint, it's not one of their better moments.

Last Night I Dreamed: Decent tune. Strong lyrics and vocals from Gord, and a beautiful guitar solo from Rob.

The Drop-Off: Love it! One of the heaviest things the Hip have ever recorded, with gnarly guitars and a wonderfully menacing vocal from Gord D. But the real star here is Gord Sinclair who is a freakin' badass on this track. This song was an absolute beast in concert, and it's too bad it didn't stick in around longer in the setlist. I would have loved to have heard it on the final tour.

Family Band: My 2nd favorite song on the album. I love everything about it, particularly the lyrics. Arguably Gord's best vocal performance on the album.

World Container: A gross, garish, disaster of a recording. Like Trump pouring ketchup on his steak. Just....ugh, why did they record it this way? Strip away all the Bob Rock layers, and this is actually a pretty solid tune with superb lyrics. As with Pretend, this would have sounded great with a couple of acoustic guitars and Gord's vocals, a-la-Wheat Kings or Fiddler's Green. This song deserved so much better.

[Tomacco]

Big fan of the album.
“Pretend” is a contender for worst Hip song ever though.

[NWOntario]

So many memories about this record/tour:

- The week after the album was released I worked up north for a week. Wonderful memories driving from North Bay to Kirkland Lake in the driving rain listening to WC for the first few times. Of course, prior to that...
- ...were the Fort York shows! They're wrapped up in my memories of that record, too.
- I was back up north in the spring - so while I echo Wolf's thoughts about "Fly," it was fun hearing it in Moonbeam, Ontario.
- I saw two of the four Phoenix warm-ups, then four of the arena dates. The Hip were reinvigorated on this tour, imo. The Ottawa show on that tour was SENSATIONAL. And the nightly covers were great, too - except for "Diamond Dogs" at the ACC, which was awful.
- The album still holds up. Oceans, Rink, Drop-Off, Family, and WC are my standout tracks. I LOVE "Drop-Off" and "Family."
- I got to hear four of the songs live one more time in 2016, including WC (which is one of my genuinely favourite latter-era Hip songs: "Go suck some souls, be a reader, get used, laugh at a funeral or two" is genius).

And that said, I can't wait to vote for LNIDYDLM.

[carebread]

Largely great songs (Pretend is a dumpster fire), ruined by Bob Rock.

[direwolf74]

Forgot to mention, my favorite memory of the WC era was seeing the band at Sasquatch 2006 at the Gorge. Best Hip show I've ever seen, hands down. The Hip were on the main stage, sandwiched on the bill between Neko Case and the Shins in the middle of the day. Those who were there will remember the freak hail storm that started just a few songs into Neko's set, eventually forcing her off the stage and forcing the crowd to run for shelter. It took the crew an hour or so to clear all the snow off the stage and make sure it was still safe for the show to continue. After what seemed like an eternity, the Hip finally went on and absolutely wiped the floor with every other act on the bill that day. Gord was in peak form, throwing himself around the stage like a rag doll and ranting like crazy, including some funny bits about the crazy weather. Such a brilliant performance.

[sean.bonner]

Why listen to Pretend when you can listen to Broadcast.

[fingernailsonhull]

I have a generally positive relationship with this record. (I should say, I really like IBE, too.) When I saw them in 2007 they opened with Rink and it was electric. I love the interplay between Gord's vocals and the guitars during the chorus of Luv (sic). Drop Off is a beast of a song. Pretend and WC are terrible. Family Band is another great song.

But this album has my most intimate Hip show experience. The wife and I lived in St Louis at the time. There had been rumblings that they would play The Pageant there (not having played STL since the mid 90s), but no dice. So when they announced the US shows in the spring of 2007, we bought tickets and made the four hour drive to Indianapolis. I'd only ever driven through before. They were playing at a small club called The Vogue. It was their first show back after a break, so it was on the shorter side. But the place was small. It was packed and there were maybe 400-500. We got there early and snagged a table only about thirty feet from the stage. I took some fantastic pictures which are now pretty special to me. Wintersleep was a great opener. I still remember Gord leaping in the air at the opening notes of Rink. Just a great night.

[Tomacco]

I think I saw this album promoted Live more than any other. Went to one of the Phoenix Concert Theater shows in 2006. Went to the Vegas show in 07, the ACC show in 07, and the Kingston show in 08. Those shows made me fall in love with The Kids Don’t Get It and The Drop Off most of all. But I really enjoy every song on the album except Pretend, to be honest. Fly isn’t my favorite either, but it’s okay. I went through a big phase of loving the title track too, but I’ve cooled on it in recent years a bit.

[gsmacleod]

I really enjoy much of World Container; some really solid songs that translated well live and I was excited to finally get back to a show after missing the two previous tours. Gord was in fine form, driving the mic stand around in circles through 100th

Yer Not The Ocean - I think they hit here what they were trying for on the previous two openers; some big power chords to start followed by some basic riffs driving the song forward. Where Are You Ready and to a lesser extent, Heaven fail in the opening spot, Ocean works quite well.

Lonely End of the Rink - liked this song from the first time I saw it but seeing it live as an opener truly made me fall in love with this song. I think 50MC still holds top spot for "hockey" songs but this one is a very close second.

In View - wasn't sure about this when I first heard it; it has grown on me over the years and despite only seeing them three times after this tour (NFPA, FC and MMP), including this tour I saw this song three times. They seemed to enjoy playing it when I saw them and of the new stuff, the crowd seemed pretty into this song as well.

Fly - don't hate it but certainly meh. I do like the intro and the Freddie Mercury line though.

Luv (sic) - luv it - the guitar work; some big chords and lots of understated licks and fantastic tone

The Kids Don't Get It - great lyrics and the driving guitar riff is fantastic into the big sound of the chorus

Pretend - a good argument for a ten track album; not terrible but nothing noteworthy

Last Night I Dreamed I Loved You - good solid song; really like the guitars and Gord's performance

Drop Off - very heavy; bass is outstanding and I'm sad I missed this one live. Really like the outro; seems as though it's going to be pretty tame and then it builds

Family Band - great vocal performance and really enjoy the fast paced guitar licks; they fit very well with the song

World Container - I love the lyrics and Gord's performance; way too much added to it. Live it worked well; stripped down and what it should have sounded like on the CD.

Shane

[cochise]

As with EVERY Hip release, each one of them brings back exact memories/times in my life (good, great and not so great).

WC brings back great memories. As others have mentioned, I think it was the most heavily promoted album? It seemed they were everywhere and prior to its release, so many bootlegs were held off being posted out of respect. I think this might have been the first time where fully finished, completely polished songs were performed so long before the album came out, or even a single being released to the radio? Sure seems it anyways.

This was one of the best tours as well, I think I caught about 5 or 6 of the shows (if I included the summer fling as part of the full tour). The Phoenix shows were just stellar, not only hearing the entire WC album, but they dug so deep into their catalog and pulled out songs I had completely given up on ever hearing live.

As for the album itself, I did enjoy it, but was a tad underwhelmed initially. After IBE had come out,l I thought the Hip were starting to head back to their roots and had expected more of a "Road Apples" sound to the new album. When I first heard In View on the radio, I knew that wasn't what we'd be in for.

There are some good tracks on it though. Yer Not The Ocean is a perfect opening track, the initial guitar riff catches you as soon as it starts and sets up the remainder of the album quite well. Rink, Drop Off, Family Band all fit quite well into the Hip catalog as well. Duds existed as well and have already been mentioned above.

Lastly, this was the first album where I was questioning if Gord was using autotune. It seemed most apparent on Pretend, but there are parts of other tracks too that just don't sound quite right, or should I say sounded too right with not enough "realism" to it. I assume this was all under the direction of Bob Rock.

All in all a fairly good album. Not in my top 5, but not in my bottom 5 either, ranks somewhere right in the middle.