[restlesssoul]

GOOD MORNING!!!!
must be nice to wake up to that.
cant say im pumped for the show tonight.
very sad.


:thumb:

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[Escape@Hand]

That was a scathing review. Although the writers take on NFPA is absolutely off, it's one of their best albums ever, and I don't know of any hardcore fans that want to hear NOIS again.

[SRK]

That was a scathing review. Although the writers take on NFPA is absolutely off, it's one of their best albums ever, and I don't know of any hardcore fans that want to hear NOIS again.

Best albums ever...according to you. It's my least favourite by a pretty wide margin, and one of the main reasons (along with the lacklustre shows) that I'm pretty well out on the band as an entity at this point.

[BIGVDOGG]

That was a scathing review. Although the writers take on NFPA is absolutely off, it's one of their best albums ever, and I don't know of any hardcore fans that want to hear NOIS again.

Best albums ever...according to you. It's my least favourite by a pretty wide margin, and one of the main reasons (along with the lacklustre shows) that I'm pretty well out on the band as an entity at this point.

:thumb: goodbye.

[Escape@Hand]

That was a scathing review. Although the writers take on NFPA is absolutely off, it's one of their best albums ever, and I don't know of any hardcore fans that want to hear NOIS again.

Best albums ever...according to you. It's my least favourite by a pretty wide margin, and one of the main reasons (along with the lacklustre shows) that I'm pretty well out on the band as an entity at this point.

Well obviously it's according to me, but that goes without saying, just as the article doesn't need to point out that the review is solely the writers opinion...

You don't dig NFPA, and that's fine, but my point was I think the reviewer is totally off on a lot of his opinions. While the show may have sucked, which is pretty rare for the Hip (but not unheard of), most of the hardcore fans (at least around hear) have generally positive things to say about NFPA, and when the writer notes that, basically, hardcore fans only want to hear more NOIS, he's dead wrong.

[Killer Whale Tank]

Well, I'm going tonight and will make up my own mind.

It's worth noting that critics have seldom been big fans of the Hip, who are either insufficiently "conceptual" (a la David Bowie or Arcade Fire) or insufficiently "authentic" (a la Sheepdogs) for many rock critics. So I don't put too much stock in this reviewer, who clearly is among those lukewarm critical legions - not quite willing to come out and say he doesn't think much of the band, instead he shelters behind the supposed supremacy of their first four albums (which he probably didn't like at the time either, but now feels no need to mention).

I think Plan A is a really solid album with a small number of duds and a clutch of deeply heartfelt songs. Downie is uniquely vulnerable in these lyrics. Whether those songs work live is another question; I see no reason why they won't, but I'll know more tonight.

[Dark Canuck17]

Stop telling us you are no longer fans or been a long time coming...blah..blah...who cares move on what do you want people to beg for you to stay...get over yourselves...

[chives]

Stop telling us you are no longer fans or been a long time coming...blah..blah...who cares move on what do you want people to beg for you to stay...get over yourselves...

Agreed. This is supposed to be for HIP Fans. If you don't like them anymore, that's cool and ok, now go away.

[Killer Whale Tank]

Well, I went last night. Highlights for me included an unexpected and touching "Flamenco;" the retooled "Gift Shop" - which seemed a mess until about a third of the way through, when suddenly everything clicked, completely reviving a song that has been tired in concert for years and years; "Wheat Kings" with its solo spotlights given to Paul and the other Gord as vocalists (!); and "We Want to Be It" (what a great song that is. How can it not be a hit and future classic??) and the blistering "Streets Ahead," maybe the tightest and most intense moment of the set. Conversely, "At Transformation" and "Man Machine Poem" sounded better on record. Which is a weird thing to say about the Hip. (Part of the message here is that Plan A is a rare case where they actually nailed the songs in the studio version, making them hard to top live).

Unfortunately, most of the new album was shelved for the classic hits. Of which the Hip have an amazing number. I found that predictable but regrettable, sort of an admission of defeat, especially considering that the lead single ("Lookahead") wasn't played. But I know what people are complaining about re: Gord. I didn't find he was mindlessly screaming, though.

I've speculated for a while that Downie is under the influence of his hero Bob Dylan and beginning to do what Bob does live, i.e., rework his delivery in terms of the rhythms of language (speeding up here, deliberately delaying there, constantly defeating the listener's expectation) and melody (suddenly go way up; hold that note twice as long as before; etc.). So the game for the singer is to bob and weave and move around constantly pulling against the structure of the song as it's laid out by the band. Based on last night, that's what we're seeing.

The problem with this approach is twofold. First, Dylan is extraordinary among pop vocalists in his ability to extract endless variation from song structures - what he does is very hard to do. And I don't think Gord has quite achieved that level of mercurial magic (or total disinterest about what the crowd thinks). Second, the pleasures of seeing Dylan live are those of watching a mad scientist experimenting with his material on stage. But people don't go to the Hip for that; they go for a mad rock and roll catharsis. And that requires that you deliver the climactic parts of a song climactically - not much room for fooling around with the basic structures.

I think the Hip should do a tour where it's clearly advertised that they will be reconstructing their music on stage. Call it "The Hip Stripped Down," make it a quieter show with lots of acoustic and "unplugged" reinventions of the material. I'll bet that would become one of the most musically rewarding tours of their career and could really shift the expectations of the fans, in a good way.

[Summiteer]

Well, I went last night. Highlights for me included an unexpected and touching "Flamenco;" the retooled "Gift Shop" - which seemed a mess until about a third of the way through, when suddenly everything clicked, completely reviving a song that has been tired in concert for years and years; "Wheat Kings" with its solo spotlights given to Paul and the other Gord as vocalists (!); and "We Want to Be It" (what a great song that is. How can it not be a hit and future classic??) and the blistering "Streets Ahead," maybe the tightest and most intense moment of the set. Conversely, "At Transformation" and "Man Machine Poem" sounded better on record. Which is a weird thing to say about the Hip. (Part of the message here is that Plan A is a rare case where they actually nailed the songs in the studio version, making them hard to top live).

Unfortunately, most of the new album was shelved for the classic hits. Of which the Hip have an amazing number. I found that predictable but regrettable, sort of an admission of defeat, especially considering that the lead single ("Lookahead") wasn't played. But I know what people are complaining about re: Gord. I didn't find he was mindlessly screaming, though.

I've speculated for a while that Downie is under the influence of his hero Bob Dylan and beginning to do what Bob does live, i.e., rework his delivery in terms of the rhythms of language (speeding up here, deliberately delaying there, constantly defeating the listener's expectation) and melody (suddenly go way up; hold that note twice as long as before; etc.). So the game for the singer is to bob and weave and move around constantly pulling against the structure of the song as it's laid out by the band. Based on last night, that's what we're seeing.

The problem with this approach is twofold. First, Dylan is extraordinary among pop vocalists in his ability to extract endless variation from song structures - what he does is very hard to do. And I don't think Gord has quite achieved that level of mercurial magic (or total disinterest about what the crowd thinks). Second, the pleasures of seeing Dylan live are those of watching a mad scientist experimenting with his material on stage. But people don't go to the Hip for that; they go for a mad rock and roll catharsis. And that requires that you deliver the climactic parts of a song climactically - not much room for fooling around with the basic structures.

I think the Hip should do a tour where it's clearly advertised that they will be reconstructing their music on stage. Call it "The Hip Stripped Down," make it a quieter show with lots of acoustic and "unplugged" reinventions of the material. I'll bet that would become one of the most musically rewarding tours of their career and could really shift the expectations of the fans, in a good way.

Great analysis KWT :thumb:

[miles_hi]

i think they should tour with albums.
phantom power, road apples, in violet light.
i would pay to see that.
no surprises no dissapoitments. :thumb:

[carebread]

Joel Plaskett did something like that a few years back in Toronto. Five shows five days in a row, playing the entirety of an album per night. I would love to see The Hip do that and somehow not screw it up.

[Marcus1970]

this all seemed to start back in 2004 to be honest, gord started singing selective songs improperly such as ahead by a century, little bones and 100th meridian. Now it seems that it has spread to many other songs to the point where only the newer songs seems to get the proper vocal treatment. I fully understand gord wants to have new interpretations of songs but clearly it has gone too far. It won't be long before even the casual fans decide that this doesn't sound like the hip anymore. I feel that if gord were to watch his live show he may realize that the songs just don't sound as good, or maybe he likes the way they sound. Unless the start taking the pearl jam model they may be doomed. PJ is not afraid to playh any song they have ever done and for the most part Eddy sings all the vocals they way they sound. They still jam out certain songs and they play different covers and seem to keep it fresh even though they have staple songs they they pretty much play every concert as well. I believe Eddy also has a huge song book and refers to lyrics as well (similar to a teleprompter). Somebody needs to convince the hip that all their old stuff is pure gold and they should never be afraid to play anything. People love to hear rarities and old classics and they love to hear vocals sung they way they were recorded with minor change-ups and variations. Until they do this, it could get ugly for long time and even casual fans of the live shows.

But there's two issues here. One is the question of variety in the set-lists. That's a legitimate issue, especially if Gord (or the band) are getting bored by the same old "hits." Yes, you always have to include enough hits to keep the casual fan - who make up most of any given concert crowd - happy. But there's no reason not to go deep into the catalogue, either. That's part of the advantage of having a huge body of work, and if they're not seizing this advantage, that's dumb.

The second issue is "singing the songs properly," i.e., "the way they were recorded." This is the kind of musical conservatism that I have a problem with. There is no one "proper" way to do a song. Gord is heavily influenced by Bob Dylan, and Bob has always been very clear that his recordings are just "blueprints" that are in no way binding upon what he chooses to do on stage. The key is not to see the recorded versions as some how the "essence" of the song, but rather a launching-pad for further exploration. Indeed, as with Dylan, when it comes to the oldies Gord knows that the audience knows the song - which ought to give him leeway to mix it up. Instead, the pressure goes in the exact opposite direction ("how dare you change your phrasing!!"). I find that there's something constipated about this demand that the songs sound Just Like on the Album. It seems to be rooted in an anxiety about hearing anything done differently.

There are many was to keep songs fresh and eliminate the boredom factor. The Hip often do a good job at this. NOIS, Meridian, ABAC, Wheat Kings, etc. have all gone through some sort of evolution.

As for Grace Too, I've always been a fan of this 1997 version.

[youtube]IUVU8mk_tmM[/youtube]

[Escape@Hand]

Conversely, "At Transformation" and "Man Machine Poem" sounded better on record. Which is a weird thing to say about the Hip. (Part of the message here is that Plan A is a rare case where they actually nailed the songs in the studio version, making them hard to top live).

That's funny, because I was not a fan of MMP until I heard it live; then it "clicked" for me and now I love it. I wonder if it was just an "off" night. The Vancouver shows seem to have been pretty big disappointments, from what I've read. Not just in terms of setlists, but the actual performance as well, which is a sad/scary thought. Now every band is allowed to have a bad night here or there, but the HIp have been pretty consistent in bringing it every single night. Even "greatest hit" shows are generally lively and entertaining, to say the least, but these three shows seem to have been pretty sloppy.

I wonder if there is something going on with the band? Perhaps a hiatus is on the horizon, or maybe there are personal issues causing them to be less focused than usual? It just doesn't seem like the band we're used to seeing. The shows I saw at the beginning of the tour were out of this world, but it seems by the time they started the Canadian leg, their momentum and energy just died.

[abrown]

The Vancouver shows seem to have been pretty big disappointments, from what I've read. Not just in terms of setlists, but the actual performance as well, which is a sad/scary thought. Now every band is allowed to have a bad night here or there, but the HIp have been pretty consistent in bringing it every single night. Even "greatest hit" shows are generally lively and entertaining, to say the least, but these three shows seem to have been pretty sloppy.

I wonder if there is something going on with the band? Perhaps a hiatus is on the horizon, or maybe there are personal issues causing them to be less focused than usual? It just doesn't seem like the band we're used to seeing. The shows I saw at the beginning of the tour were out of this world, but it seems by the time they started the Canadian leg, their momentum and energy just died.

____

I don't think I'd call the show I saw (night 3) sloppy - the band sounded great. I would call what Gord was doing sloppy though. I almost want to say lazy as well, but it's not laziness, screaming and messing around with the mike stand does take work, and he sure does work up a sweat.

I'm also not one to say that I expect a band to play their songs live exactly like they sound on the record. I think experimenting and jamming and improvising is great, but I don't thin that is what the Hip as a collective are doing. The band seems to be playing most songs true to recorded form, it's just Gord "improvising" (ie screaming and messing up the timing). I'd love to hear the band collectively rework and reinvent some classics.