Vancouver shows..... - Printable Version
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Vancouver shows..... - spottrax - 07-27-2013
Does anyone think these three shows will be a sort of "final hurrah" for a while with the band? Maybe the last chance for quite a while to catch them.... are there expectations? Surprises? Sure wished I lived in Vancouver....lol. Beautiful city (been there once). Three nights in theater settings, same town, end of tour....has to be something up their sleeves for this right?? :thumb:
Re: Vancouver shows..... - SRK - 07-29-2013
spottrax Wrote:Does anyone think these three shows will be a sort of "final hurrah" for a while with the band? Maybe the last chance for quite a while to catch them.... are there expectations? Surprises? Sure wished I lived in Vancouver....lol. Beautiful city (been there once). Three nights in theater settings, same town, end of tour....has to be something up their sleeves for this right?? :thumb:
They'll do 'greasy jungle' at the 2nd show and 'flamenco' at the 3rd. Exciting!
Re: Vancouver shows..... - restlesssoul - 08-02-2013
i give a quick rant about this in here
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZjkU77vN4A">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZjkU77vN4A</a><!-- m -->
for 127 bucks per ticket, they better fucking do something good.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - direwolf74 - 08-02-2013
restlesssoul Wrote:i give a quick rant about this in here
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZjkU77vN4A">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZjkU77vN4A</a><!-- m -->
for 127 bucks per ticket, they better fucking do something good.
They could start by switching up the damn setlist. For the love of humanity, please give the setlist writing duties back to Gord Sinclair. Because Rob Baker sucks at it.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - restlesssoul - 08-02-2013
direwolf74 Wrote:restlesssoul Wrote:i give a quick rant about this in here
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZjkU77vN4A">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZjkU77vN4A</a><!-- m -->
for 127 bucks per ticket, they better fucking do something good.
They could start by switching up the damn setlist. For the love of humanity, please give the setlist writing duties back to Gord Sinclair. Because Rob Baker sucks at it.
my wife works in makeup. she met a woman named Katherine the other day. She claimed to be the Tragically Hip's ex-manager. She stated that they have had new management for the last two years and are trying to work the heritage band angle, like putting them in with RUSH or whatever.
I understand it's a theater, but 127 per is fucked. And not changing the setlists is even more fucked, especially for this band, with such a vast catalog. I hate the fact they charge 5 dollars in Seattle for stickers, then in Canada they charge 15. Such bullshit.
It will be very interesting what these 3 shows give us in Vancouver. Here's hoping they wow us and dig deep like in 2009.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - Jack Straw - 08-03-2013
This is a great topic and I would like to raise some hell with it over the next month... in a fun way of course... The one thing I will say as I'm thinking about some of these other 'issues' is that Gord's voice/technique/whatever you want to call it has never been worse in my opinion. I have no desire to listen to any of these shows because of it. I've come to the conclusion that this particular point is now superseding setlist choice, festival debacles and cost. I mean, if all of those things were perfect within the realm that a lot of the sentiment here seems to agree with, would it still be worthwhile to go/buy/listen/etc??? As an example, what would your opinion of the Massey Hall run or the Fort York shows be if he sang those the way he's singing these? Would it be different? Better? Worse?
I have been around a lot of people over the years that have chided Gord's voice. I've always been a fan, but I do understand where they've always been coming from. This is the first time I've ever cringed. The Canada Day 'Grace' was awful. There's no other word. And the cadence is such that....
Put the voice (of late) aside, and we have to if we want to dig into this other stuff, what's the deal lately? I have so many ideas of stuff this band could do without much effort besides wanting to play live and innovative music in unique venues and in unique ways that keep it fresh for band and fan alike. Of course if they are... or once they start jobbing (playing for the pay check sans practice/creativity - the staples that brought us on board in the first place) - then it's all over and we can all stop typing.
Now Vancouver... I live on the west coast these days, though much farther south than Vancouver. If this was 2006 or 2009 there is no way I'd be missing these shows. No way. Now, I'd literally have to be paid to attend. And by that I mean costs covered. There a solid chance that 10+ songs will be repeated every single night! Maybe more. And they may not be sung in a way that's even recognizable... And what's the price at the high end? $130/night? Are you fuckin' kidding me? I can catch over half of the Phish fall tour for that amount ($60/show) and get 3+ hours a night with very few if any repeats... In a fully general admission indoor show no less... Apple & oranges? Maybe. I say it's rock 'n roll and someone above brought up price and therefore we're now talking VALUE.
Why overpay to see the same thing regurgitated night after night and not at its highest level. Like I said at the beginning, if you're going to spew the the stuff night after night, presentation counts. That's why The Stones, RUSH. etc. can do it. The Hip have never played this game and the foundation, the bedrock of their fan base was not built by being subjected to this model.
So, thoughts?
Re: Vancouver shows..... - restlesssoul - 08-03-2013
Jack Straw Wrote:Of course if they are... or once they start jobbing (playing for the pay check sans practice/creativity - the staples that brought us on board in the first place) - then it's all over and we can all stop typing.
So, thoughts?
Great quote up there, man. So true.
I agree with everything you've said. I said on here after I saw the world premier of Bobcaygeon, that the live stuff was not great. Gord's gotta stop yelling the verses. Sing them. We all love a little embellishment and emotion, but the whole song, red faced yelling? Not for me.
The setlist thing, who knows what the hell is going on.
In vancouver 2009, they played 75 songs over 3 nights. 46 different tunes in there, so pretty damn good. That is the benchmark I will be holding on for. I believe those we 'Evening With..." billed shows however. Is there an opener in Vancouver? I don't know. We will see what happens.
As of now, I have front row on the middle night only. I dont have tickets to either of the other shows, but might get the first night to see what happens then make a judgement call for the 3rd based on the setlists of the first 2.
REALLY REALLY dissapointing right now with watching what is going on with our beloved band.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - jgardz - 08-03-2013
Yup, despite a solid album and a good show last winter in Detroit, I skipped last weeks show in my hometown for the first time ever and I don't regret it...the summer festival greatest hit shows are so meh, I refuse to spend the $$$! There live shows just aren't unique anymore, and their lack of releasing good merch (bootlegs, old vinyl, etc) is really dimming my interest these days. Sad times indeed
Re: Vancouver shows..... - direwolf74 - 08-03-2013
Restlessoul and Jack Straw have both hit the nail right on the head. As a creative force, I think they've still got it. Now for Plan A is a solid late-career gem in my opinion, and Gord's voice sounds fantastic in the studio. But the live show is an absolute disgrace right now. The lack of setlist variation and Downie's annoying scream-singing and screwing up his vocal phrasing, etc.. It's severely testing my loyalty as a fan. In over 20 years this is the first time that I've ever been truly disappointed with The Tragically Hip, and it hurts me to say that. I think it's seriously tarnishing their reputation as a live band. What's particularly sad about all this is that for their entire career, the Hip's live show has been their bread and butter. It was the one thing that separated them from any other band out there (well, that and Gord's unique lyrics). They were absolutely f'n brilliant for a great number of years. Loud, epic, powerful, incendiary, mesmerising. Gord Downie was (and can still be) a force of nature. The most unique and charismatic frontman in all of rock, and as recently as 2009 he actually SANG the goddamn songs. Up until, and including the '09 tour, these guys were capable of blowing any other band off the stage with their live show.
So the big question is what the hell happened to these guys between 2009 and now? Even on Gord's solo tour with the Country of Miracles in 2010, I thought his voice was sounding great. Then strangely during the 2-year span between his solo record and the latest Hip tour he turned into a big black hole of suck. In a recent interview he mentioned how he's trying to re-invent the way he sings the older songs in order to breathe new life into them. Well Gord, I've got some news for ya. It's not working. Please stop. It makes me wonder, do the other guys in the band ever approach Gord after a show and say "dude, what the f--- are you doing out there? Just sing the damn songs properly." Of course we'll never know the inner workings of the band and what goes through their heads. But man, if I were Paul or Gord Sinclair, I'd be really frustrated with what I was hearing through my monitors. Poor Paul has to try and sing background vocals over top of that crap. That would drive me absolutely insane if I was up on that stage.
Bottom line: their live show is broken, and it needs to be fixed. I really hope they can turn things around soon, because like I said, I still think they're brilliant songwriters. If someone can convince Gord to reign in his voice, and if they can start giving their back catalogue some love, they can still reclaim their throne as the best live band in the world. But right now they're a shell of their former selves, and that makes me sad.
**end of rant**
Re: Vancouver shows..... - cortezthekiller - 08-04-2013
Yep, the fans are the only ones being gouged in all of this. The asinine ticket prices and the asinine merchandise prices are out of control. It gives off the impression that the band doesn't give a shit about the fans and that the guys are just cashing out for a quick buck. I mean, why are Hip tickets so much more than PJ tickets? Their new management can go suck on a lemon.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - spottrax - 08-04-2013
Absolutely spot-on posts by everyone! This thread is becoming a sort of the "ringing out the frustrations" thread IMO and maybe it's time....
For some reason, there was a 100% shift in thinking by the band or their management after the 2009 tour. I have four theories for the major change in the bands business and musical direction.
1)The band possibly took sort of a bath on the 09 tour or it didn't meet their financial expectations.
2) More importantly, The homeland security laws of the USA went into effect in 2010... Now fans can't simply cross the boarder whenever they want for a concert! We must now pay extra for a passport or an enhanced license. Not only are these costly, they are inconvenient for people who don't use them for anything else but to cross over to see the Hip. In 09 the Hip could still play multiple nights in say Detroit to mostly Canadian folks crossing the boarder....that is not realistic now.
3) As the band and their families get older the cost of medical bills and the simple economics of kids getting older (college etc) is a reality. The Hip need to make as much as they can right now.....as was said earlier "Jobbing"
4) GD's voice and overall health. I am convinced he has a bigger issue going on. With all respect, I think he still gives what he can in concert but he relies on screaming, raw emotion and the teleprompter. The Hip can't spill the real details of what is going on because touring is $$$ and this is their livelihood. The Tragically Hip are one of those bands who simply can't change members and strive on (ie Journey, Foreigner or any other band who has a substitute singer). GD is probably the best front-man I have EVER seen when he was at his peak... from the 80's to 2000 and then 07 and 09 tours!
09 was the Hip in all it's glory. An absolute perfect mix of hits, rarities, an awesome lightshow, an acoustic set (where Downie could showcase that once-beautiful voice of his at a lower volume!) and....an extra musician to really fill out the sound. At that point I was the kind of fan who would still beg everyone I know (my wife included....lol) to go see them! The Youtube footage of those shows is FANTASTIC!!! The Bear, Throwing Off Glass even newer things like The Depression Suite were great....or how about the way GD engaged the crowd??? Jumping into the first ten rows to let people sing Blow or MAW or strum his guitar on Bobcaygeon? Also, the little things that us musicians love....Baker had an army of cool guitars that tour! Of course he played his usual PRS's and his Tele but he also played the Gretsch Falcon, a 12 string Rickenbacker and others....he even broke out the mandolin and pedal steel for songs!!!! Johnny had two drum kits, the usual one and a smaller one for the acoustic set....how bad-ass is that??? At that point, The Hip were still Canada's best kept secret!
Summer festivals are an guaranteed sizable paycheck for the band...with very little effort. They can roll through the hits, show after show. GD can scream his way through them at loud volume and the drunk masses can pay out their ears for the "party" and enjoy it. That show hasn't changed a bit since the summer of 2010! The backdrop panels, the setlists, the screaming, the format......all exactly the same!!! This has left us solid and unbelievably loyal hardcore fans scratching our heads with disappointment!
NFPA IS a very solid album, the USA smaller shows for last winter's tour were entertaining and had shades of what the Hip were once was.... Still watching some of the Youtube footage (from the past tour) is tough because GD's voice is hit and miss. As he himself says in the movie Bobcaygeon before the band hits the stage "it's still going to be a total struggle". The only other vocalist I can think of is Roger Daltrey who struggled as much. When I seen them in Detroit last November, I also noticed the mix was not what it once was. GD's voice was really isolated and up front. I am thinking every effort is made to give him the opportunity to hear himself.....and to not scream. This sort of backfires IMO because he (as we all love) gets amped up and yells through the first four or five songs....then the voice is shot and he compensates the rest of the show to sing the notes...etc....(I know I am over analyzing sorry)...and relies on the teleprompter way too much IMO...
These things that are being said I (we) say out of absolute respect for GD and the rest of the band.... I still LOVE the Hip. As a musician, they have helped to shape my musical endeavors. I don't copy them but they have influenced the way I approach my band and songwriting....
If the Hip come to Detroit or Windsor, I will be there. I'm a fan for the long haul. However, I certainly won't give an extra effort to see a summer festival show (London OT was close enough but no way!). Time is not on the side of most rock bands....There are personnel changes due to musical differences, health issues, or people simply growing out of being able to withstand the rigors of touring. We Hip fans are lucky that we still have all five original guys still rockin. However,I am convinced that time is running out and they are simply playing all these summer festivals for economics. If it was for the love of the music, the shows would be similar to the 07 Fort York shows..... where the Hip took risks with their setlists and gave us fans (and themselves) a terrific concert experience....
Re: Vancouver shows..... - cortezthekiller - 08-04-2013
spottrax Wrote:Absolutely spot-on posts by everyone! This thread is becoming a sort of the "ringing out the frustrations" thread IMO and maybe it's time....
For some reason, there was a 100% shift in thinking by the band or their management after the 2009 tour. I have four theories for the major change in the bands business and musical direction.
1)The band possibly took sort of a bath on the 09 tour or it didn't meet their financial expectations.
2) More importantly, The homeland security laws of the USA went into effect in 2010... Now fans can't simply cross the boarder whenever they want for a concert! We must now pay extra for a passport or an enhanced license. Not only are these costly, they are inconvenient for people who don't use them for anything else but to cross over to see the Hip. In 09 the Hip could still play multiple nights in say Detroit to mostly Canadian folks crossing the boarder....that is not realistic now.
3) As the band and their families get older the cost of medical bills and the simple economics of kids getting older (college etc) is a reality. The Hip need to make as much as they can right now.....as was said earlier "Jobbing"
4) GD's voice and overall health. I am convinced he has a bigger issue going on. With all respect, I think he still gives what he can in concert but he relies on screaming, raw emotion and the teleprompter. The Hip can't spill the real details of what is going on because touring is $$$ and this is their livelihood. The Tragically Hip are one of those bands who simply can't change members and strive on (ie Journey, Foreigner or any other band who has a substitute singer). GD is probably the best front-man I have EVER seen when he was at his peak... from the 80's to 2000 and then 07 and 09 tours!
09 was the Hip in all it's glory. An absolute perfect mix of hits, rarities, an awesome lightshow, an acoustic set (where Downie could showcase that once-beautiful voice of his at a lower volume!) and....an extra musician to really fill out the sound. At that point I was the kind of fan who would still beg everyone I know (my wife included....lol) to go see them! The Youtube footage of those shows is FANTASTIC!!! The Bear, Throwing Off Glass even newer things like The Depression Suite were great....or how about the way GD engaged the crowd??? Jumping into the first ten rows to let people sing Blow or MAW or strum his guitar on Bobcaygeon? Also, the little things that us musicians love....Baker had an army of cool guitars that tour! Of course he played his usual PRS's and his Tele but he also played the Gretsch Falcon, a 12 string Rickenbacker and others....he even broke out the mandolin and pedal steel for songs!!!! Johnny had two drum kits, the usual one and a smaller one for the acoustic set....how bad-ass is that??? At that point, The Hip were still Canada's best kept secret!
Summer festivals are an guaranteed sizable paycheck for the band...with very little effort. They can roll through the hits, show after show. GD can scream his way through them at loud volume and the drunk masses can pay out their ears for the "party" and enjoy it. That show hasn't changed a bit since the summer of 2010! The backdrop panels, the setlists, the screaming, the format......all exactly the same!!! This has left us solid and unbelievably loyal hardcore fans scratching our heads with disappointment!
NFPA IS a very solid album, the USA smaller shows for last winter's tour were entertaining and had shades of what the Hip were once was.... Still watching some of the Youtube footage (from the past tour) is tough because GD's voice is hit and miss. As he himself says in the movie Bobcaygeon before the band hits the stage "it's still going to be a total struggle". The only other vocalist I can think of is Roger Daltrey who struggled as much. When I seen them in Detroit last November, I also noticed the mix was not what it once was. GD's voice was really isolated and up front. I am thinking every effort is made to give him the opportunity to hear himself.....and to not scream. This sort of backfires IMO because he (as we all love) gets amped up and yells through the first four or five songs....then the voice is shot and he compensates the rest of the show to sing the notes...etc....(I know I am over analyzing sorry)...and relies on the teleprompter way too much IMO...
These things that are being said I (we) say out of absolute respect for GD and the rest of the band.... I still LOVE the Hip. As a musician, they have helped to shape my musical endeavors. I don't copy them but they have influenced the way I approach my band and songwriting....
If the Hip come to Detroit or Windsor, I will be there. I'm a fan for the long haul. However, I certainly won't give an extra effort to see a summer festival show (London OT was close enough but no way!). Time is not on the side of most rock bands....There are personnel changes due to musical differences, health issues, or people simply growing out of being able to withstand the rigors of touring. We Hip fans are lucky that we still have all five original guys still rockin. However,I am convinced that time is running out and they are simply playing all these summer festivals for economics. If it was for the love of the music, the shows would be similar to the 07 Fort York shows..... where the Hip took risks with their setlists and gave us fans (and themselves) a terrific concert experience....
Some interesting thoughts there. I don't know if this is the end for them or not, but they have definitely regressed recently. I think the teleprompter was a terrible idea. I mean, even with the teleprompter, he is still screwing up lyrics quite a bit so what's the point? From as far back as I can remember watching the band live, Gord has forgotten lyrics in their live shows. It has never been enough to ruin a show for me but it seems like it could be if I were to see a show now. Watching him look down at a prompter constantly and still messing up could get tiresome to a fan, I would imagine.
I think the apprehension about playing more of a variety of songs stems, at least partly, from the band's fear of not knowing the songs well enough. I guess, with families and whatnot, they just don't have the time (or don't want to make the time) to rehearse anymore. That's perfectly fine, but you can't blame fans for refusing to pay to see them live anymore, either.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - fingernailsonhull - 08-05-2013
After the show in Edmonton in January, I think I decided that I'm done seeing The Hip live. I paid $135 for my VIP seat. Second row was great. I even got to hear a couple of songs I had never heard live before - Escape and Eldorado. But overall, it was the same show I had seen in the summers of 2011 and 2012. Not only that, the yelling, the screaming. I still consider my Fort York show in the summer of 2006 to be the best concert I've ever been to. Ahead of U2 and Rush and a host of others. But the price is too steep and the on-stage product too poor quality to justify Hip shows anymore. There are much better bands I'd prefer to spend my money on now - and at 1/3 the price. I'm starting to think the band should call it quits. It's painful to watch them grow worse, not better, with age. It's like a great TV show that goes on for two or three seasons longer than it should. By the end, you're just sad to see what it's become. Sigh. I hope I'm just in a cranky mood today.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - direwolf74 - 08-05-2013
Man, this thread is so depressing, haha. But I have to say, everybody here is pretty much dead-on with their comments. The only thing I'll disagree with is the suggestion that they should call it quits. As songwriters, I still think they're very good at their craft. As mentioned in my post above, I think Now for Plan A is a fantastic record, and arguably much better than the previous two albums. But it's clear that their live show needs some serious work. I have tickets for the upcoming Calgary show and I'm actually dreading their performance. Never thought I'd ever say that about a Hip show, but there it is. This might be my last show, so I just hope Gord can control himself for once and sing the songs properly. Boring setlist or not, that's all I ask.
Re: Vancouver shows..... - spottrax - 08-05-2013
direwolf74 Wrote:Man, this thread is so depressing, haha. But I have to say, everybody here is pretty much dead-on with their comments. The only thing I'll disagree with is the suggestion that they should call it quits. As songwriters, I still think they're very good at their craft. As mentioned in my post above, I think Now for Plan A is a fantastic record, and arguably much better than the previous two albums. But it's clear that their live show needs some serious work. I have tickets for the upcoming Calgary show and I'm actually dreading their performance. Never thought I'd ever say that about a Hip show, but there it is. This might be my last show, so I just hope Gord can control himself for once and sing the songs properly. Boring setlist or not, that's all I ask.
I totally agree that the band still has some writing creativity bottled up and could do another solid album. I also believe the band's friendship is intact and that in itself is important.
I certainly don't see the thread as depressing. The Hip are so unique both musically and in their interesting success and failure. Most bands play about the same size venues no matter where they are in North America....take a band like The Gin Blossoms. They are usually packaged for summer tours with 2 or 3 other like bands at open air sheds....or they can headline for probably 1000-1500 or less at large clubs or small theaters. The Hip can play to 10,000+ headlining Canadian venues and then play to 600 at the House of Blues in Cleveland....it is very unique. My point is...they are taking the $$$ while they can in Canada. Musically, they still have gas in the tank. It's just discouraging for us hardcore fans. If you read posts on FB, people who seen them for the first or second time and are casual fans are really fired up about the performances... They don't over analyze like we do...
I hope they cut loose and play tons of different songs at the three Vancouver shows. It would be cool for the fans and for themselves....and a nod to that awesome catalog!
Gonna be interesting to see what the future holds....Still a fan here!