[NMAS]

Oh God. The new album is a sure bet to suck rocks. (no pun intended).

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the material---as in the songs themselves---will be fine. But this record, like IVL and FC, is sure to sound awful, sapped of energy, *polished* (i.e., crap). And the worst part of it is, this comes after the Hip's best record in years...it risks robbing them of a chance to build on the ears perked up by IBE.

Nor do the Hip have a good track record of defeating bad producers: IVL and FC are both blots, sonically-speaking.

Oh, well. All my arguments to the fallen, former Hip fans, that the Hop are still a hungry-sounding, urgent, muscular band (based on IBE) will be in ruins. Balls.

Whose ears were percked up??? other than on this sight, That album didn't sell worth a shit.

[kennedy11]

The album isn't out yet people, nor is it finished. Wait until it comes out to judge Bob Rock. If Gord and the guys are happy with the way it is going, than that should be enough. 'Nuff said!

[chris]

...And the worst part of it is, this comes after the Hip's best record in years...it risks robbing them of a chance to build on the ears perked up by IBE...

Whose ears were percked up??? other than on this sight, That album didn't sell worth a shit.

IBE sold fairly well. It went Platinum (100,000 copies) in just 4 months.

Check out the CRIA Database to see how all of their albums have sold: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php">http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php</a><!-- m -->

EP - 200,000
UTH - 1,000,000
RA - 800,000
FC - 800,000
DFN - 600,000
Heksenketel - 50,000
TATH - 500,000
LBU - 200,000
PP - 300,000
MAW - 200,000
IVL - 100,000
IBE - 100,000

[NMAS]

...And the worst part of it is, this comes after the Hip's best record in years...it risks robbing them of a chance to build on the ears perked up by IBE...

Whose ears were percked up??? other than on this sight, That album didn't sell worth a shit.

IBE sold fairly well. It went Platinum (100,000 copies) in just 4 months.

Check out the CRIA Database to see how all of their albums have sold: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php">http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php</a><!-- m -->

EP - 200,000
UTH - 1,000,000
RA - 800,000
FC - 800,000
DFN - 600,000
Heksenketel - 50,000
TATH - 500,000
LBU - 200,000
PP - 300,000
MAW - 200,000
IVL - 100,000
IBE - 100,000

Thanks for that Chris, I didn't think it did nearly that well, but still the steady decline in album sale's is clear by your post.

Don't knock Bob Rock or the band until the album comes out.

[chris]

IBE sold fairly well. It went Platinum (100,000 copies) in just 4 months.

Check out the CRIA Database to see how all of their albums have sold: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php">http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php</a><!-- m -->

EP - 200,000
UTH - 1,000,000
RA - 800,000
FC - 800,000
DFN - 600,000
Heksenketel - 50,000
TATH - 500,000
LBU - 200,000
PP - 300,000
MAW - 200,000
IVL - 100,000
IBE - 100,000

Thanks for that Chris, I didn't think it did nearly that well, but still the steady decline in album sale's is clear by your post.

Don't knock Bob Rock or the band until the album comes out.

I wouldn't be so quick to suggest that a decline in sales is clear from my post. The Hip have long been known as a band who's back catalogue continues to sell well. The oldest albums have sold the most copies... because they have been on the shelves the longest.

Check some of the certification dates:
Road Apples sold 100,000 copies between 1996-03-06 and 1999-01-21.
Fully Completely sold 100,000 copies between 1995-08-25 and 1999-01-21.

Those records are selling 25,000 to 30,000 per year, as are some of their other early releases.

Either way, a new Hip album is always a good thing, and many (most) listeners don't give a damn over who the producer is. In fact, I'd bet than many of the fans who regularly visit this site would be hard pressed to name who produced most of The Hip albums.

[Killer Whale Tank]

Just to clarify...yes, FC has great songs on it. But enjoying the songs often involves 'hearing past' the production. 'Courage' and 'Looking for a Place to Happen,' and the title track seem especially damaged to me. (Although 'Trunk' sounds great).

I wouldn't expect a second FC in any case---they don't write tunes like that anymore, much---more like a second IVL.

Hope I'm wrong.

[NMAS]

IBE sold fairly well. It went Platinum (100,000 copies) in just 4 months.

Check out the CRIA Database to see how all of their albums have sold: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php">http://www.cria.ca/cert_db_search.php</a><!-- m -->

EP - 200,000
UTH - 1,000,000
RA - 800,000
FC - 800,000
DFN - 600,000
Heksenketel - 50,000
TATH - 500,000
LBU - 200,000
PP - 300,000
MAW - 200,000
IVL - 100,000
IBE - 100,000

Thanks for that Chris, I didn't think it did nearly that well, but still the steady decline in album sale's is clear by your post.

Don't knock Bob Rock or the band until the album comes out.

I wouldn't be so quick to suggest that a decline in sales is clear from my post. The Hip have long been known as a band who's back catalogue continues to sell well. The oldest albums have sold the most copies... because they have been on the shelves the longest.

Check some of the certification dates:
Road Apples sold 100,000 copies between 1996-03-06 and 1999-01-21.
Fully Completely sold 100,000 copies between 1995-08-25 and 1999-01-21.

Those records are selling 25,000 to 30,000 per year, as are some of their other early releases.

Either way, a new Hip album is always a good thing, and many (most) listeners don't give a damn over who the producer is. In fact, I'd bet than many of the fans who regularly visit this site would be hard pressed to name who produced most of The Hip albums.

That is interesting. you certainly know your stuff, I will never knock you for that. I don't think you will see M@W, IVL and IBE put those kinds of numbers up each year. But that is just my opinion. havet to wait and see, I hope they do.

[skippy the wonder dog]

Actually, the data show a clear trend of declining sales.

Road Apples sold 500,000 copies within 3 years (by 1994). But IVL, released in 2002, has yet to be certified double platinum (200,000 copies).

IVL, in other words, hasn't sold even half as well as Road Apples.

Now, I like the band no matter how many albums they do or don't sell, but I think NMAS's comments are on the money here. I'd put it to you that the reason Kasper isn't producing them again has nothing to do with scheduling, and everything to do with relatively flat sales.

[cferneyh]

Now, I like the band no matter how many albums they do or don't sell, but I think NMAS's comments are on the money here. I'd put it to you that the reason Kasper isn't producing them again has nothing to do with scheduling, and everything to do with relatively flat sales.

Interesting theory, but I think - well at least I hope - you are wrong. If the Hip were interested in increasing album sales methinks they would have gone to a big name producer YEARS ago.

The more I think of it, the more I think their point of view is simply "why the hell not". I imagine they run in largely the same circles, so perhaps they got to know the guy and quite like him.

Yeah, it doesn't look great on the periphery, but should we already be passing judgement on something that hasn't even been released yet?

[NMAS]

No we should not be passing judgement yet.
I think IBE is a good album, I think part of the problem is that the band and the label are bad at picking singles. I though Vac scar was the worst song on IBE and a bad choice for a single, although not a single's type album I think they could have picked something else that could have got some airplay right off the bat, not that VC did poorly, I just think there were better choices. I also think that this has been a problem for them for a few albums, Good life is a great song but a bad first single, THis of course is just one fans opinion.

[direwolf74]

No we should not be passing judgement yet.
I think IBE is a good album, I think part of the problem is that the band and the label are bad at picking singles. I though Vac scar was the worst song on IBE and a bad choice for a single, although not a single's type album I think they could have picked something else that could have got some airplay right off the bat, not that VC did poorly, I just think there were better choices. I also think that this has been a problem for them for a few albums, Good life is a great song but a bad first single, THis of course is just one fans opinion.

I still think The Darkest One should've been the lead-off single from IVL. It's just so damn catchy, and I think they released it too late in the game for it to have any impact on album sales.

As for IBE, I still can't believe they didn't release Makeshift as a single. Much like the Darkest One, it's kind of your traditional Tragically Hip up-tempo rocker with great hooks and a catchy chorus, and that's exactly what radio wants. To me that song had "hit single" written all over it.

[skippy the wonder dog]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with looking to increase album sales. Music isn't something they do for fun, it's their business. The only people who think it's cool to starve for your art are those with full time jobs doing something else. And if Bob Rock helps them get there, that's fine by me.

Re singles, that's definitely a problem. Good Life was a good single choice but a bad first single choice from a band like the Hip. I agree, Darkest One should have been the first single.

And Vacc Scar was a lousy single (and not a good concert opener, either). It's kind of a half-developed song, IMO, that never quite manages to go anywhere. I think Makeshift was the obvious kick-ass single on IBE.

Strange choices.

[tigerthelion]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with looking to increase album sales. Music isn't something they do for fun, it's their business. The only people who think it's cool to starve for your art are those with full time jobs doing something else. And if Bob Rock helps them get there, that's fine by me.

Re singles, that's definitely a problem. Good Life was a good single choice but a bad first single choice from a band like the Hip. I agree, Darkest One should have been the first single.

And Vacc Scar was a lousy single (and not a good concert opener, either). It's kind of a half-developed song, IMO, that never quite manages to go anywhere. I think Makeshift was the obvious kick-ass single on IBE.

Strange choices.

I agree with you on a few of your points. People sometimes forget that music is a business and while it's cool to keep credibility and not sell out, money is important. You can still make money and be credible. Pearl Jam are the perfect example. They fly under the radar and are thought of as a band of the people; yet they are still multi-millionaires. If I were an artist, I'd rather get paid than not get paid and retain my level of credibility with some fans.

I also think Vacc Scar was not the best opening song. It sounds alright but I kind of agree with you that is sounds half developed. It didn't have the musical tightness that I'm accustomed to hearing from the Hip. Not that I hate the song, but it did sound rough live.

The song I wish they played more live from IBE is Heart of the Melt. I guess they weren't satisfied with it when they practiced for the tour. It's a high energy song that I think could be a crowd pleaser.

[Chris Tanz]

And Vacc Scar was a lousy single (and not a good concert opener, either). It's kind of a half-developed song, IMO, that never quite manages to go anywhere.

agreed. and the proof is that in concert Gord always has to add in the second round of "went down like a bad card table like the tacoma narrows bridge" because the album/single version of the song is about 30 seconds to a minute too short and even at that length it runs out of lyrics before it gets to the end. It needs another verse of something.

ct

[kennedy11]

I could have sworn that this was a topic about Bob Rock, not about what singles are good or not!