[tigerthelion]

Kerry flip flops on issues more than any canditate in history.

Uh...no, that's not true. Kerry's problem is ABSOLUTELY NOT that he changes his mind about things...it's that he's far too intelligent. People like you have bought into the Bush hype that Kerry flip flops...you even use that gawd-awful expression. You've fallen for it, bought it hook line & sinker. Sorry, but this is how it is: Kerry does not talk in quips and easily digestible sound-bites. This is one thing the Bush white house loves to do, but Kerry is above it.

Kerry mulls everything over. Bush makes rash, irrational decisions based on what he's told. Kerry thinks and studies all sides of an issue BEFORE making a decision. Therefore, compared to Bush's dangerously impulsive behaviour, everybody thinks Kerry can't make up his mind. But Kerry knows more about any given governmental affair than you or I could ever hope to... but the Bush people have used their predisposition for speaking in one-liners to BRAND Kerry with the title flip-flopper and because that's so much easier than Kerry's explanation for his ruminations, everybody buys into it. That's a very superficial and uninformed way of thinking.

Kerry confuses simple minded people (and the Bush White House helps it along a lot) by saying he would have voted for the war if he had to do it all over again, but not the way "President" Bush carried it out. Bush's cronies say that you're either for the war or you're not. This leads people to believe the Bush White House is more resolute in its decisions than Kerry. But Kerry is smart enough to know that, although Iraq is a better place without Saddam Hussein, there were better ways of carrying out the invasion (not liberation) and he regrets giving BUSH - specifically - the authority to cary out his nefarious impulses.

Many people, therefore, think Kerry voted for it but is now against it. You have said you believe as much with your incredibly dismissive catch-phrase labeling of the Democratic candidate. Read up a bit why don't you.

It's not hard to tell you're a staunch Democrat. Nothing wrong with being a Dem but your bias is sure showing. I don't think Bush or Kerry are particularly good candidates.

I have fallen for it have hook line and sinker have I? I think you are the one that's fallen in absolute love with Kerry. How the fuck do you know how intelligent Kerry is? You're the one who's brainwashed into thinking Kerry is some brilliant political mind. What, did you hear how smart he was from Ben Affleck? Rob Reiner? Barbara Streisand? Bono?

Why don't you read up a bit and give me some actual info on Kerry's views other than the damn war? I certainly don't endorse Bush but I don't endorse any canditate from the USA. I know however that everyone on here seems to be for Kerry and any rational debate will be out the window since it's me against 1000 people. So you read up on Kerry insteasd of pretending to be smart by following the crowd and going anti-Bush, and by fooling yourself into thinking Kerry is any better.

[The Darkest Canuck]

well, he's at least a genius comapred to Bush...the president with the all time lowest IQ :roll:...who only got to be president because his daddy was...so he could finish the war that his daddy started...and continue on with his daddy's agenda ...

[tigerthelion]

well, he's at least a genius comapred to Bush...the president with the all time lowest IQ :roll:...who only got to be president because his daddy was...so he could finish the war that his daddy started...and continue on with his daddy's agenda ...

Yes, I agree with all of what you said. I am just not a fan of Kerry either.

[Stephen Dame]

well, he's at least a genius comapred to Bush...the president with the all time lowest IQ :roll:...who only got to be president because his daddy was...so he could finish the war that his daddy started...and continue on with his daddy's agenda ...

Trust me, underestimating him is exactly what he wants.

He's easily understimatable, but he's nowhere near stupid.

Part of his "everyman" appeal is to appear un-intellectual, as opposed to Ivy League Kerry.

Bush isn't a genius, but he aint stupid, nor are the people surroundng him.

Unless Kerry can position himself strongly and clearly on Iraq and the economy, Bush is going to walk away with this one... cake walk.

The swing states aren't swing states anymore... they now have an issue that differentiates the two parties. Unlike 2000, nobody see's the two parties as identical, this time, folks are going to rally to the cause. Bush and his folks are masters of soft power influence.

Pearl Jam and REM need to stop bashing Bush and start giving people reasons to supprot their guy.

I hate to say it (Simply because I'm ideologically opposed) but Bush is slowly pulling away with this one.

[tigerthelion]

Pearl Jam and REM need to stop bashing Bush and start giving people reasons to supprot their guy.

I agree with this also. Everytime I read about some band, like these two for example, campaigning their political beliefs it is always "Don't vote for this guy or that guy" instead of "Vote for so and so". I get it that they are against Bush but I'd rather hear why they are for another guy.

[The Darkest Canuck]

or myabe Kerry's people are waiting til October/November to really hit them with the hard stuff in order to be on the minds of Americans right when they go to the polls, there's still LOTS of time between now and the election and one has to wonder if it might not be better to lay low a little bit take a few punches and then come out swinging hard a little bit later on to get the KO when they're least expecting it.

[The Darkest Canuck]

Pearl Jam and REM need to stop bashing Bush and start giving people reasons to supprot their guy.

I agree with this also. Everytime I read about some band, like these two for example, campaigning their political beliefs it is always "Don't vote for this guy or that guy" instead of "Vote for so and so". I get it that they are against Bush but I'd rather hear why they are for another guy.

well, really i don't think they're for any candidate, they're just very very strongly against bush, i'm sure like most of their peers they fucking hate politics and polititcians due to the copius amounts of bullshit that are always entailed.

[grooveless touque]

Your argument is very strange, tiger, and I'm not even sure how to respond. You launched Bush-esque sound bites about Kerry that had no substance, and I responded with detailed information that contravenes that with hard evidence. You make no pretensions towards justifying your nicknaming of Kerry in precisely the fashion Bush would have you do. You make absurd blanket statements and I'M the one who needs to read up? Give me a break. Better yet, give yourself a break by not spouting such baseless rhetoric because you're making yourself look uneducated and woefully uninformed.

I'm not in love with Kerry, I defended his character the way I would any man who was being unfairly criticized. He is far from a perfect candidate. Al Gore was much more in line with political beliefs, he just didn't have Bush's cowboyish good-ol'-boy "charm" (though any intelligent person would call it "blissful ignorance") so he didn't get elected. Well, actually, if Florida had been forced to do the statewide recount in the interest of justice, Gore WOULD have been elected, but Bush's cronies intervened. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms. The fact remains that I do NOT think Kerry is an ideal candidate but your Bushisms make me look past that to portraying Kerry far more accurately than you care about doing.

Bush's people are liars. Outright abject liars. They say certain things and then later, when the media (IE, Tim Russert) try to hold them accountable for their words, they deny ever having said such things even though those words ARE ON TAPE! Russert is above demeaning these liars, so he doesn't make it all that clear that they're lying, he alows them to squirm and weasel their way out (not that it works, given the average intelligence of Russert's viewers trumps that of your average Bush voter).

However, Jon Stewart is a comedian and doesn't mind making these people look like the fools they are. While you might pettily criticize me for referring to a comedian's point of view, the facts are in evidence: Stewart shows Cheney saying one thing - such as "Saddam Hussein presents an imminent threat to the safety of Americans" - followed by complete contradictions; the most famous example of this is when he used a clip from Russert's show where Russert DIRECTLY QUOTED Cheney and Cheney said, in plain words, "I did not say that. I did not use those words." However, unfortunately, the point is LOST on the Bush voters because they don't watch Russert or Jon Stewart. The few who do - stewing in embarassment for the mockery every member of the bush camp is subjected to - won't pay attention. Condoleezza Rice, one of the most evil-looking people to ever walk the earth in my opinion, is no less vile in her speech. She has out and out lied before by denying she said something attributed to her as a DIRECT QUOTE.

How can you have people who LIE so boldly and without any consideration for what is right and just in charge of the world's most powerful country and then criticize John Kerry using those very people's statement about him?! "Flip-flopper" is a bloody outrageous LIE like most of what they say! Obviously all politicians will at some points in their careers get themselves in trouble for things they say, but the Bush camp is so goddamn arrogant they do it with impunity. They simply do not CARE about the truth, knowing their people are not the types to excercise better judgment. I think that's despicable, as are you for so crudely and ignorantly using fraudulent statements to brand an intelligent man a fool. So how the hell am I supposed to read up on something to change your rampant ignorance?

[The Darkest Canuck]

he got served! AGAIN! :mrgreen:

we truly are long lost brothers i believe, we need to have a Keith's together someday

[grooveless touque]

I hear that! Where are you, anyway? It shames me to admit that I really don't know Where The Wild Are Strong...unless it refers to the Hockey team, but then you'd be in Minnesota, and wouldn't have a Cdn flag in your sidebar would ya?

[The Darkest Canuck]

i am in Sudbury Ontario...NORTHERN Ontario, not sissy ass "call the army it snowed" Southern Ontario!






ps: i'm just messin with you Southerners

[arock]

...Condoleezza Rice, one of the most evil-looking people to ever walk the earth in my opinion...

Wow. Getting nasty now. Pretty hateful quote there. Why don't you stop the petty insults before it gets too far...

[grooveless touque]

Yeah...ok. I knew when I was typing it I shouldn't say it. But it's so fitting for me because I think she's a duplicitous person who is too smart for her own good. There's no doubt she's intelligent, but she uses it to be crafty, evasive and looks down on the media and those who would seek to hold her accountable for her words. She has no regard for them and considers it an inconvenience to have to put up with people who take a sober second look at such things. And no, that's not me talking, look her up...people who know her have said it.

I mean, tiger is going to hold me to account for what I said in the above post. If I get fed up and want to back out, which I won't, I'm certainly not going to say "I never said that" when anybody can clearly see I did. I'm not going to act like everybody else is an idiot and shouldn't question me. I don't even have anything against tiger, per se; we share opinions in other parts of the forum...I was just very put off by his slandering of Kerry. When I say controversial things I KNOW it's going to make waves with someone...that's something of which the Bush camp has no regard. "You're with us or you're against us" is tantamount to saying "You support us and believe our every word or you're an unpatriotic fool."

[The Darkest Canuck]

no, i think she's pretty evil looking too, so's Cheney, i hope they lose this election, and he's so shocked that he has a heart attack and dies and rots in hell....before you criticize me for that statement consider this...HE VOTED AGAINST THE CLEAN WATER BILL!!!!!!!!!! CLEAN WATER! WHO VOTES AGAINST CLEANER WATER!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! NO! I WANT MY WATER TO BE DIRTY AND TOXIC!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's just the kind of scummy people that the Bush camp is full of though, and the Republican party as a whole...

[opiated]

shouldn't this be in the "non-tragically hip discussion" forum