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Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem
#46

potsie Wrote:My problem with the MMP album cover is that after the album name was changed from Dougie Stardust, the picture no longer seemed to fit the album name (or the contents).
Sadly I might need you to explain this one to me as well, potsie. Is Dougie Stardust saying GD is a Canadian Bowie (Dougie being a "Canadian" name)? Following this title with elaborate stage costumes, etc. I don't disagree that the comparison is apt, but it seems far too egotistical for the Hip.
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#47

andrew sharpe Wrote:
potsie Wrote:My problem with the MMP album cover is that after the album name was changed from Dougie Stardust, the picture no longer seemed to fit the album name (or the contents).
Sadly I might need you to explain this one to me as well, potsie. Is Dougie Stardust saying GD is a Canadian Bowie (Dougie being a "Canadian" name)? Following this title with elaborate stage costumes, etc. I don't disagree that the comparison is apt, but it seems far too egotistical for the Hip.

I'm not thinking anything too deeply on this one. I was merely suggesting that the picture of a kid that looks like Ziggy Stardust's son (he's got his dad's hair) seems appropriate for an album called Dougie Stardust. It doesn't fit for an album called Man Machine Poem, especially since the picture isn't really in any way representative of the songs contained within. For most other Hip albums, the cover art relates either to the album title or is a nice visual representation of the mood/atmosphere of the album's music. I think once the album was no longer going to be titled "Dougie Stardust", they should have also re-considered the artwork.
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#48

andrew sharpe Wrote:
potsie Wrote:My problem with the MMP album cover is that after the album name was changed from Dougie Stardust, the picture no longer seemed to fit the album name (or the contents).
Sadly I might need you to explain this one to me as well, potsie. Is Dougie Stardust saying GD is a Canadian Bowie (Dougie being a "Canadian" name)? Following this title with elaborate stage costumes, etc. I don't disagree that the comparison is apt, but it seems far too egotistical for the Hip.
Imagine an alternate timeline where Gord was healthy and the band went out on the road for the Dougie Stardust Tour -- complete with crazy suits. What would the reaction have been? What would your reaction have been?
potsie Wrote:I'm not thinking anything too deeply on this one. I was merely suggesting that the picture of a kid that looks like Ziggy Stardust's son (he's got his dad's hair) seems appropriate for an album called Dougie Stardust. It doesn't fit for an album called Man Machine Poem, especially since the picture isn't really in any way representative of the songs contained within. For most other Hip albums, the cover art relates either to the album title or is a nice visual representation of the mood/atmosphere of the album's music. I think once the album was no longer going to be titled "Dougie Stardust", they should have also re-considered the artwork.
On the original Dougie Stardust album cover wasn't the kid wearing face-paint? Not that I've seen it - but I feel like I heard that somewhere. When they changed the name, they simply removed the face paint. As it is -- and imaging we had no knowledge of this whole "Dougie" thing, I doubt we'd be questioning whether or not the album art suited the music? The relationship between their album art and musical context isn't always obvious/explicit. It can be. It might be. Open to interpretation.
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#49

potsie Wrote:
andrew sharpe Wrote:
potsie Wrote:My problem with the MMP album cover is that after the album name was changed from Dougie Stardust, the picture no longer seemed to fit the album name (or the contents).
Sadly I might need you to explain this one to me as well, potsie. Is Dougie Stardust saying GD is a Canadian Bowie (Dougie being a "Canadian" name)? Following this title with elaborate stage costumes, etc. I don't disagree that the comparison is apt, but it seems far too egotistical for the Hip.

I'm not thinking anything too deeply on this one. I was merely suggesting that the picture of a kid that looks like Ziggy Stardust's son (he's got his dad's hair) seems appropriate for an album called Dougie Stardust. It doesn't fit for an album called Man Machine Poem, especially since the picture isn't really in any way representative of the songs contained within. For most other Hip albums, the cover art relates either to the album title or is a nice visual representation of the mood/atmosphere of the album's music. I think once the album was no longer going to be titled "Dougie Stardust", they should have also re-considered the artwork.
No, I meant I need you to explain the album title to me. In the words of Forest Gump, I am not a smart man.
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#50

Moof_Milker Wrote:Imagine an alternate timeline where Gord was healthy and the band went out on the road for the Dougie Stardust Tour -- complete with crazy suits. What would the reaction have been? What would your reaction have been?
I said this on another thread but I think the costumes only worked because it was the last tour. Otherwise it felt very un-Hip.
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#51

I think "Dougie Stardust" would have been an excellent album title, and the flashy suits would have worked terrifically well with the tongue-in-cheek album concept.

We can say, "well, that's un-Hip," but as far as I'm concerned it was precisely what the Hip would have needed at that point, following complete public (and to some degree fan) indifference to NFPA - which also has a witty album title, incidentally. The Hip's image was staid and boring. No one except Gord had changed their look in 20 years. Dougie Stardust would have shaken it up, gotten some attention, and challenged some too-comfortable Hip fans in the process. It would have been fun. Hell, the outfits were still fun, even under the terrible circumstances in which they were ultimately rolled out.
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#52

I also don’t like the album cover.

Is that a kid with a mullet?

I don’t really get it.

That said, maybe on stage Gord would have slipped into a Dougie Stardust alter ego aka Bowie, Bono, etc.

That could have been fun.
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#53

sean.bonner Wrote:Re: M@W Art

I once saw an animated gif on how the artwork was constructed (layer by layer). Just took a quick look for it but I couldn't find it! Anybody know where this can be found?
I got you

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010828030156im_/http://thehip.com:80/html/images/artwork-animation.gif">https://web.archive.org/web/20010828030 ... mation.gif</a><!-- m -->
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#54

Joe Wrote:
sean.bonner Wrote:Re: M@W Art

I once saw an animated gif on how the artwork was constructed (layer by layer). Just took a quick look for it but I couldn't find it! Anybody know where this can be found?
I got you

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010828030156im_/http://thehip.com:80/html/images/artwork-animation.gif">https://web.archive.org/web/20010828030 ... mation.gif</a><!-- m -->

There’s your answer, Fishbulb
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#55

FourPistols Wrote:I also don’t like the album cover.

Is that a kid with a mullet?

I don’t really get it.
My interpretation was GD is Dougie Stardust...a Canadian Bowie, if you think of Dougie as a Canadian name (think Bob & Doug MacKenzie). The baby with a mullet is maybe also a kind of Canadian version of something...the mullet being a rural, loosely hockey-associated thing? But, again, this interpretation feels far too self-aggrandizing to be accurate. Or is it self depracting and totally consistent with the Hip's sense of humour? I need guidance!
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#56

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:The Hip's image was staid and boring. No one except Gord had changed their look in 20 years.
Your boring is my unpretentious. We already have Kiss and The Flaming Lips for that type of thing.
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#57

andrew, setting aside a disagreement about whether we prefer our performers to freeze their look in amber or to show some creativity and panache in self-presentation, I was making more of a strategic 'career management' point. The Hip were basically dead in the water commercially after NFPA. That album was met with complete indifference even by many Hip fans. The band had become taken for granted, its efforts greeted with a collective yawn from critics and the mass public. I'm suggesting that the group's unchanging and uninteresting self-presentation was one part of that tendency not to pay any attention to whatever the Hip were doing. Putting out an album with a strikingly sardonic concept ('Dougie Stardust') backed by an even more striking stage presentation (Downie's suits) might have shaken up that complacency, moved the critical and popular needle a bit. The Hip, in the public's mind, were in a rut; they needed to get out of it.
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#58

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:The Hip were basically dead in the water commercially after NFPA. That album was met with complete indifference even by many Hip fans. The band had become taken for granted, its efforts greeted with a collective yawn from critics and the mass public.
Nah, just you and a few other tongue cluckers ever too happy for a chance to voice your discernment. NFPA was their highest charting album ever on the Billboard 200, reached #3 on the Canadian charts and was nominated for Rock album of the year. Before you get on about the significance of those measures, reread what you wrote above and see if that information contradicts it. Now, was it my favourite album? No. But you're overstating things significantly.

I didn't mind Gord's outfits or the Dougie Stardust theme. But I always preferred the band as a group of five guys; hankie throwing, fancy outfits and other such theatrics don't do much for me (don't get me started on martyrs). Certainly not something I was burning CD's over, but neither do I celebrate it.
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#59

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:The Hip were basically dead in the water commercially after NFPA. That album was met with complete indifference even by many Hip fans. The band had become taken for granted, its efforts greeted with a collective yawn from critics and the mass public.
I heard Streets Ahead lots on the radio when this came out, and even more At Transformation. I still here AT on the radio frequently.

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#60

Moof_Milker Wrote:Imagine an alternate timeline where Gord was healthy and the band went out on the road for the Dougie Stardust Tour -- complete with crazy suits. What would the reaction have been? What would your reaction have been?

I think the most interesting question is, "What would the band's reaction have been?" Having Gord in those suits during a Dougie Stardust tour would have drawn a clear line between the leading actor and the supporting cast. During the LTR document Rob spoke about the band's desire to not want to give greater importance to Gord over the rest of the guys. However, having Gord in those attention drawing suits would have hastened the move toward the band becoming "Gord Downie and The Tragically Hip". Of course, for the MMP Tour, the suits were perfect. But he might have caught some grief over them from the other guys under different circumstances.
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