Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - Printable Version
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Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - edgoffin - 04-02-2018
Sadly, we've reached the end with album #13. Released June 2016, recorded at The Bathhouse and produced by Kevin Drew and Dave Hamelin.
Man
In a World Possessed by the Human Mind
What Blue
In Sarnia
Here, in the Dark
Great Soul
Tired as Fuck
Hot Mic
Ocean Next
Machine
With the benefit of hindsight, the band had a definite pattern of pushing the envelope, return to a more basic approach, push the envelope again. M@W, then IBE, then Bob Rock. WATS, then a pretty conventional NFPA. So it makes sense that MMP moved band in a different direction.
I also think they were treading water. NFPA is IMO a decent album, but if I had to pick one tour where I felt the band was a bit less engaged it was in support of this release. Shakeup was likely a bit necessary. It was also interesting to learn after the fact that Gord had made Secret Path with Hamelin and Drew, I assume enjoyed the results and brought it to the band.
I have a conflicted view on the album overall. In some cases, IMO the production leaves songs feeling unfinished. Possibly it's an album that also most reflects Gord's musical interests in terms of production and sonic palette. Lyrically, he went from some of his most straightforward writing to his most deconstructed. There's allusions to family, children, sadness, separation but I find it much harder to dissect or understand than any other album.
Track by track:
Man -- an interesting opening, just as much to signify this will be a different type of album for the band, but unless I'm listing to the whole album gets skipped.
IAWPBTHM: Lead off single, which was met with a lot of vitriol on this board, especially around the drum sound. I liked, it, I still like it, especially that transition into the chorus. After that May announcement, driving to work this song came up on shuffle. I showed up to work looking like I have been on a long weekend bender, bleary eyes and snotty.
What Blue: Sort of like a later day "The Rules" in terms of vocal delivery, with a cool throaty solo from Rob. I appreciate the lyrical sentiment.
In Sarnia: I go back and forth on this. It really feels like a scratch vocal take from Gord over a completed musical piece, but it's an interesting track.
Here, in the Dark: My second favorite track on the album. I like what Gord is doing vocally, and it's too bad this one never got a chance live.
Great Soul: Similar to In Sarnia, sounds unfinished to me. I'll have to listen to it again more closely, but generally forgettable.
TAF: Maybe this is a later day The Rules? Again, a song met with mixed views. I like it -- Gord singing slightly off the beat is interesting, plus I like gin.
Hot Mic: Never really got into this track at all.
Ocean Next: A song that benefits from its unique production. That moment at 3:17 when the distorted vocals end and the guitar line is repeated and then extended in sublime. I guess in Ottawa I saw the only performance of this song?
Machine: If this is the band's final album, this is a great track to close it on and again one where the production works (I like the background hand clapping rhythm). One of my favorite solos from Rob, and likely up there with all time -- simple, but it fits the song perfectly.
The record was met with strong reviews -- by far the most positive and prolific reviews of their later day albums. I like it, but it likely filters down towards the bottom of the discography when I consider their whole body of work. Possibly because I always appreciated Gord's lyrics and phrases, and on MMP he's far more compact in his writing. I don't think there's a Hip album with fewer words? That said, there are a few phrases here that do really stick for either their insight or humour.
I would like to hear the "shadow version" of this album, with curiosity of hearing these songs either in a more stripped down approach or with Drew/Hamelin given full reign over the production. And of course I would have like to hear what was next for the band -- how these songs translated in a full tour, and if they followed what had been the pattern with a more straightforward album as the next release. I listened to Wilco's Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, first time in a long time spinning that LP; it reminded me of MMP and it's interesting how that album influenced the direction they've taken.
In closing -- thanks for participating in these threads. It's been fun, cathartic, sometimes controversial. It's brought a new perspective on some songs, and made me relisten to some tracks with fresh ears.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - Tomacco - 04-02-2018
I think this is a strong and consistent album. The songs they played live also gained some more rock energy (Tired as Fuck, for example I enjoyed more in concert - same with Machine). It’s hard to judge the album out of context from what was happening surrounding it. But I definitely like it a fair bit. Tonally it reminds me most of In violet Light, I would say.
Top picks:
Man
In a World Possessed by the Human Mind
What Blue
Great Soul
Ocean Next
Tired as Fuck
Machine
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - potsie - 04-02-2018
My feeling on this album is that it is one where "the sum is greater than the parts". It's missing "heavyweight" songs, or as Killer Whale Tank put elsewhere, "anchor songs". Machine is the only song that would have truly deserved a consistent spot on setlists on the tours that would have followed the MMP tour. There are a lot of interesting songs here, and I appreciate the freshness of the sound, but none of the songs outside of Machine stand as "all-timers".
I like this album because it excites me to think about where the band could have gone, but I've also come to the realization over the past year that my thinking on it was clouded by the circumstances surround the release. I would have initially put it firmly in mid-pack of my album rankings but I think it's drifted a bit lower than that since then as I've been able to be more critical.
I'm always amazed looking at the lyrics of "Hot Mic":
I'm not afraid of convincingness, I'm just uncertain for sure
I'm in awe of no one, I'm made for this, teach me what to want
And though I'm not yet earnest enough, not unblinkingly sincere
I'm over here
On paper, you are left to wonder how the hell he could ever sing something like that and make it sound decent. It's amazing that he could drape a melody over that pile of words!
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - loach - 04-02-2018
edgoffin Wrote:Ocean Next: A song that benefits from its unique production. That moment at 3:17 when the distorted vocals end and the guitar line is repeated and then extended in sublime. I guess in Ottawa I saw the only performance of this song?
No, it was played a few times. I saw it in London.
I'm going to spin this a bit with fresh ears before I write my thoughts. It's hard to separate this album from the raw emotion that came with Gord's announcement and that final tour.
I will say now that I loved IAWPBTHM right away and agreed with it being the lead single even though it appears in retrospect that I'm in the minority here on that. I really dug that video as well, very interesting visual components that highlighted the lyrics well.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - edgoffin - 04-02-2018
potsie Wrote:On paper, you are left to wonder how the hell he could ever sing something like that and make it sound decent. It's amazing that he could drape a melody over that pile of words!
Agreed -- lyrically it's far different than any other Hip album, or his solo work where he was a bit more experimental sonically but lyrically generally still conventional in terms of telling a story or conveying an emotion. When I add solo work to the chronology, it's curious that he went from fairly linear storytelling in Secret Path (with a few exceptions) to a much more concise style with MMP. In some cases, I think the vocal delivery tells more than the actual words (In Sarnia would be an example).
I don't think he was ever fully autobiographical in his lyrics, or more truthfully I don't know when he is or isn't writing in first person. But with all other albums, for the most part I can recognize references or pull together a plausible "story" for the songs -- right or wrong there's a narrative that I can interpret. Much less so with this album, where he's much less specific or direct with his word choice.
We now know had a lot going on in his life when writing the album (separation, death of his father), and I get a sense of it -- maybe Here, in the Dark is the most obvious -- but for the most part its harder to piece together his lyrical intent. I don't think that's a bad thing -- one of my other favorite lyricists is Michael Stipe, whose lyrics are often deliberately obtuse -- it's just generally a stark change from GD's previous work. Put the lyrics from almost any other earlier work beside any song from MMP, and its really stands out that he was trying to do something different.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - Killer Whale Tank - 04-02-2018
A solid album. I don't see it as a sudden "return to form" after NFPA. This is partly because I like NFPA a lot, and partly because I don't think MMP is better than that album. In fact, ultimately, I don't think it's all that great.
The big problem with this record for me is that it has nine songs. ("Man" doesn't count, really, being a ricochet off "Machine," and a rather dreary one at that, much as I welcome the sonic experimentation it represents). Those nine songs are certainly solid, but apart from the indisputably splendid "Machine," none of them are what I'd call truly great Hip tracks. ("Sarnia" would have been one, as the live shows demonstrated, but Gord's bizarre vocal and the awful production decisions on the track make it a compromised artifact). It doesn't help that "Great Soul" is just unlistenable dreck and that "Hot Mic" is no more than a "meh." If you're going to have such a short track list, ideally there'd be a greater number of really top-shelf cuts in there, and no "skippable" cuts.
I hate to say it, then, but this would rate in my bottom third of Hip albums for sure. Better than the disastrous "World Container," yes, more consistent than WATS and much tighter than M@W. But not above that.
On a non-musical note, it's a shame they had to shelve the fantastic "Dougie Stardust" conceit. That would have made it the Hip's first "concept" album, at least in terms of presentation, and Gord's incredible touring outfit would have worked perfectly with the concept. In some less tragic parallel universe somewhere, with no deaths to overshadow the record, the Hip release the album under those terms and see whether the hilarious concept helps to restore them to critical and fan attention. We'll never know.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - direwolf74 - 04-02-2018
I've said this a couple of times since it was released, but this is the kind of album I've been wanting the Hip to make for a long time. For me it feels almost like a natural cousin to the DFN/TATH era, where the band really stretches out its artistic legs and gets a little more adventurous. Overall I'd probably rank the album in the top half of their discography, and just a notch above NFPA. The songwriting is top-notch, and I think Gord's lyrics and the individual performances are pretty damn great for the most part. I even like Gord's unhinged vocal take on In Sarnia, which I admit is a little contradictory, since I disliked his wacky vocals on Summer's Killing Us. In Sarnia is a much better song though, so maybe that's why.
And I seem to be in the minority on this one as well, but I kinda dig Great Soul. I agree it sounds somewhat unfinished and probably should have been a b-side. But from a purely musical standpoint it's got a cool, swampy groove, and I really like the guitars. Gord's vocal performance is fantastic, particularly when he hits the "oh great soul, from the india of my dreams" part. Yea, it's not their best song by any means. But it's a cool jam nonetheless.
I'm also a big fan of the production by Drew and Hamelin. To my ears, this is the best sounding Hip record since at least IBE, and the production choices perfectly suit the material-- especially the more experimental tracks like Man and Ocean Next.
As for the songs themselves, there are three flat-out Hip classics on this album: Machine, World Possessed, and Ocean Next. In my humble opinion, these songs can easily stand up to anything from their back catalogue. I'm so thankful I got to hear at least two of those during the final tour. My other favorites from the album: What Blue, Here In the Dark, and Tired as F**k.
Hot Mic is one of the weaker tracks IMO, but Johnny's drums kinda slavage it. Excellent percussion work by him on that tune.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - sean.bonner - 04-02-2018
Almost two years on, and this album is still heavy in the rotation. I play it with the most frequency of any of their discography recently. It had been a very long time in between the release of this and Now For Plan A, mainly due to the ten-month Fully and Completely tour, and I had all the anticipation and excitement that came with the build-up to any Hip record.
I'm sure we all wish we could have experienced this record the way it was intended to be experienced. It will always be connected to the crazy emotions of what ending up being, but I genuinely think that if life went a different direction and this was just another Hip album being released with more to come, that I would still think this is one of the best records in The Hip's discography.
I think it's their best album released this millennium.
I love 9/10 songs on this record. The only song I'm very 'meh' about is In A World Possessed By The Human Mind, and that may be because it feels like the safest song on this record. Not a bad song, but it's never 'Wow'd' me like all of the other songs on the record.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - Killer Whale Tank - 04-02-2018
I see 'Hot Mic' as basically combining the drums from 'Butts Wigglin' with the chords of 'The Bear.' Call me crazy, but that's how it seems to me. The song lacks any kind of interesting melody for the chorus, and that's what leaves it dwelling along the border of mediocrity. That and the line about cheese. :lol:
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - mark - 04-02-2018
I'll have to listen to this a few more times, but I feel like we are going to have a hard time separating Gord's illness and the reaction to the album. I think everyone will like it, if for no other reason than we all know it is there last one.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - andrew sharpe - 04-03-2018
Top five album for me, but like potsie noted, it stands up well as an album, less as singles. I enjoy it front to back. The band sound really in sync. I'm still waiting to discover what "super dangerous" means...it's far too specific to be taken at face...I have to think eventually someone will come across the phrase in some book or news article.
I generally favour albums with GS and JF higher in the mix, this one being a great example. Love their work on Here In the Dark and Machine.
Machine, Possessed, and In Sarnia are my trois étoiles. The delivery and enunciation of "staring at your phone like-a-po-ker-hand" still gets me every time.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - fingernailsonhull - 04-03-2018
Why so little love for What Blue? To my ear, it's the most hopeful love song in the Hip's canon.
To me, Machine, Mind, and What Blue are the standouts on the album. And I really, really dig Rob's guitar work over the offbeat rhythm guitar at the end of Tired.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - Escape@Hand - 04-03-2018
I have so much hate for this album and it easily ranks as their worst, imo. It's only 10 tracks, and 3 of them rank as some of the weakest material the band has put out (In Sarnia, Great Soul, TAF). This feels to me much more of a Gord Downie solo album than a Tragically Hip one. I remember when I first listened to it, I was shocked, as I couldn't find an actual Hip sounding song on it until "Here, in the Dark". The opening track was just weird (although I admit I really like that song now), and many of the tracks I find rather middling, until the glorious "Machine" closes out the album. I feel as though the Hip lost their snarl on this album, and there is a lack of aggressiveness (as well as songs, in general) that is a trademark of the band. I also can't stand the production of this album; the drums in particular sound horrible throughout the album, and it seems like they replaced guitars with synths a lot, which is rarely a good thing, and is certainly not for The Hip. I don't ever listen to this album straight through, only the few songs that I like when they pop up on my playlist. Can't say that for any other Hip album.
Man - yes it's weird, but I dig it, probably because it came out of the the best song, Machine, on the album. I love the groove of this song, and it's an interesting theme lyrically.
Possessed - not bad, and one of the strongest songs on the album, but if this were on any other release (save the EP, and perhaps UTH) it would be in the middle of the pack. I fell as though the song lacks energy; it's like they start ramping up the intensity, only to cut it off and end the song. A bit frustrating, in that regards.
What Blue - a nice, poppy little ditty. Has a more classic Hip vibe, but the production still bugs me a lot, the drums in particular. Also, the fuzz guitar/synth line in the chorus, is great musically, however, the decisions on production for it detract from the song, it sounds out of place. A different tone, and perhaps slightly lower in the mix would suit the song better.
In Sarnia - very boring musically, and I can't stand Gord's vocal delivery; a perfect example of his "screamo" delivery, if there ever was one.
Here, in the Dark - two great musical ideas in the verse and chorus, but they don't mesh as well as they should. I love the grove in the verse, it's reminiscent of something form TATH, like Don't Wake Daddy, but something is missing to bridge it to the chorus. I almost wonder if they had turned those two ideas into different songs if it would make for a stronger output. Nevertheless, it's an enjoyable tune and I wish I saw it live.
Great Soul - a rather forgettable track with a boring drum beat, which I can't stand the sound of.
TAF - probably the worst song they have released since the EP, I can't find much to redeem it and wonder how it made it on the album.
Hot Mic - a decent song, could fit in on DFN, as it's a bit like Fire in the Hole, but again, it seems a bit neutered, especially compared to Fire.
Ocean Next - One of the more interesting songs on the album, a bit of a departure from their usual work but I think it works. Like much of the album there is a lot of restraint, but it fits the song and works well.
Machine - easily the best song on the album, and one of the best songs they have ever recorded, although, the live version has a much different feel than the studio, mostly because Paul's guitar is almost non-existent on the recording. When they hit the instrumental break/Rob's solo on the album, there is no rhythm guitar part, just bass and drums, with a bit of synth in the background. Another example of poor production, imo - why wouldn't there be another guitar part, when they are a two guitar band, and this is the climax of the song?! However, even that decision can't ruin a virtually perfect song.
I'd be really interested to hear the shadow album they talked about, and wonder if it is much different. I know that Gord mentioned the Hip have some other stuff in the can, and I can only hope it wasn't done with Drew/Hamelin behind the desk, because I really don't like the direction they took the Hip in. At least we got Machine out of this, though, it's a monster of a song.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - SRK - 04-03-2018
I agree with the "hard to separate the album from the news" sentiment, so it is inevitably going to be over-rated.
I remember thinking when I listened to it the first time "it's...fine, I guess?" I have no strong feelings one way or the other about it. It's okay, with 'machine' being the best thing on it by a mile, to the extent that I'd say the version I saw in Ottawa was one of the 2-3 highlights of that show, which blows my mind. The rest of it is just sort of there.
Re: Thoughts and Insights -- Man Machine Poem - cochise - 04-03-2018
First, how sad is it that this is the finale for the "thoughts and insights" discussions..........
Secondly, to me this is THE HARDEST release to critique as it is impossible to separate between being a "typical album release" and what it ended up signifying.
I have to admit that I was being a bit down on the band after the past WC, WATS and NFPA releases. To me they had turned down a completely different road than they were originally on after IBE. Of course they detoured a lot with albums up to WATS, but always seem to go back to that main road.
When IAWPBTHM was released, it seemed to reinforce what I expected from the album, a bit more of the same direction. There was a thread started on here with a lot of differing opinions and I will admit that some of my comments were a bit harsh. But after a few more listens on the radio, I actually started to like the song, the opening has a nice mild hook to it and some of the lyrics are just pure Gord. It started to make me curious what the rest of the album was going to be like.
Then..........the news........
It's too hard to hear the album and not think of the surrounding events that overtook it. The album sadly ended up in the shadows of it all, nothing much more than just a period at the end of a sentence.
In trying to review it; The production was definitely a bit more than unexpected. The overdubbing and synth on Man seemed so "Unhip" to me and can't say it ever grew on me. The album did have some good tracks on it though. IAWPBTHM I still find to be a solid piece of music. Machine is definitely the "hard" track of the album, with light undertones of classic Hip hidden inside. Similar I find Great Soul to have more classic undertone to it, to a point where it may have even fit fairly well onto Day For Night (a Grace Too sound to it for certain).
Its an OK Hip album, but even an OK Hip album is better than 90% of other music out there. That was the epiphany I had when the news hit and I was just happy period that we were blessed with new music.
It would have been so interesting to see how the record would have been received as "Dougie Stardust" and the following tour. It sure would have been seeing the band in a different light. Would it have worked or would it have left people scratching heads? Welll who knows, because what it ended up doing was bringing an entire country together and celebrating the best Canadian band ever and just grateful we had the opportunity to see and hear them one more time....