VioletlightHeron Wrote:I don't think you want to understand the point I am making, that no matter what race, creed,color exists, no race of people on this earth is innocent of practicing racial discrimination in its history. There are tribes in Africa; in Nigeria, Uganda and Congo that hate and destroy each other out of smug superiority of their race/tribe, but barely a word is breathed in the major newspapers of the underlying reasons why these countries are shambles. It is inpolitic to suggest that Asian and Black races share the same sad flaw of the skinheads and Aryan believers in the white race. What was the massacre in Rwanda about? It was about the hatred of the Hutu people by the Tsuti (sp?) tribe and their decision to slaughter them for some ancient wrong done or belief that the Hutu's were less than human and therefore slaughter could be justified. I think its a great thing to teach our schoolkids about the failings of the past, about slavery and Jim Crow. But, at some point, life has to go on. We have laws in this country and in canada that outlaw discrimination and the agencies to enforce those laws. The scenario that scares me the most in this country is based on the boy who cried wolf all the time. The NAACP and other organizations have done a wonderful job of pointing out the deficiencies of some governments and corporations, but it is very rare to hear something from them that is not a complaint. The NAACP is a political organization just like the rest of the right to life, pro gun, pro abortion groups out there that have their own agenda. To cry racism and discrimination because they did not get their way in politics is foolhardy and dangerous. Dangerous because the louder they scream about racism in this country without verifiable facts to back it up, the more people start to ignore them. The more people ignore them, the less power and believability they will have when it comes to pointing out real instances of racism in American society. In my ideal world, people would sit down and negotiate their differences with respect;all parties recognizing that sometimes they dont always get what they want and the best way to get what they want is to think smarter and present better arguements and convince more people their ideals are right rather than whining and carping about the raw deal they got.
I agree and disagree with you on this arguement. I feel the problem with NASA is it is a big government agency. Huge federal agencies are, in my opinion, prone to errors in judgement and slothfulness because their is a lack of accountability and common sense because of the size and amount of money spent. I dont think Corporations are good or evil, its the people who run them, especially in the big corporations that depend of government contracts to continue in business and get lazy or mismanaged and are concerned with profit motive rather than cost effectiveness and accountability. There are corporations out there, and people within some of the big corporations that follow their sense of right and wrong and use fair business practices. These companies invent faster, more effective rockets, fuel cells etc that make space exploration more conceivable and everyday living better for all of us. Hyundai Prius or that other electric car? Like anything in this world, I feel there are lots of good things and bad things and I feel that the best way to live life is to celebrate the progress and achievements we make toward a better human race and accept failure and work to correct it, knowing that it may take more time than i would want. Recrimination and bitterness leaves you in a trap of your own making. There's an old saying ive heard, cant remember off the top of my head who said it but it goes like this..Forgive the sins of the past of your fellow man, but never forget the choices and errors that lead to these sins.
ok, i've babbled enough here, thanks for graciously allowing me to speak my peace..over to you, leslee 
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I think I clearly understand the point that “you are making.” If you recall I said:
<<Now, this is certainly not to deny that human nature is based upon competition and whatnot. I obviously understand that humanity is greedy and flawed. When, however, you mention things such as “colonising” the moon, it reminds me of all of the disgusting things done to people.>>
BUT, in terms of you mentioning the (perhaps future) colonisation of the moon, I am simply reminding you of all of the terrible occurrences that went on in the world during the colonisation of Africa, South and North America. I am not turning this into a debate on race; however, you cannot deny the white, European discrimination that has tainted the last 300 years. Yes, many African tribes kill one another as the continent is in a constant state of disarray. (Not to mention the amount of support that *certain* nations receive from the US in terms of money, weapons and 'special forces training.' Indonesia is being helped by the US in the form of training and weapons, to destroy East Timor and where do you think Israel gets around 6 bill$ to ravage the Palestinians? And let us not forget poor South America. Remember, a lot of this 'colonisation' still occurs today with the US imposing puppet governments around the world in order to get what they want...and if this is not an overt form of "white" intervention, I do not know what is) I agree with Kim and would even argue that Imperialism and the intervention of colonisers has led to much of that disarray… especially with the attempts to instil white, democratic governments that clearly do not work in lands of Africa. You argument also falls a little flat because I think you are taking “colonialism” out of context. Colonialism is “a policy by which a nation maintains or extends its control over foreign dependencies.” So, regardless if people kill each other in their own lands (And just because others do it to each other does NOT serve as any sort of justification for us to be colonisers!), I am pointing out the fact that colonising the moon would easily parallel the white nations’ tendency toward “conquering and destroying” other nations for their own benefit.
<<Life has to go on>>
How can life simply “go on” when all of the faults of the past affect and influence many of the problems of the present?! How can one ignore cause and effect? How will society ever become better if we allow “life to go on” without dealing with past mistakes and the troubles they have left us with today?
<< Recrimination and bitterness leaves you in a trap of your own making.>>
Similar to what I mentioned above: What is in the present has stemmed from the past. We made it, so I do not think that ignoring it or moving on is a solution. It will leave many embittered and it will be pushing reality aside. It is the perfect capitalistic statement: Invent and purchase and everything will be forgotten; continue to make electric cars and better rockets to send us to the moon… but does this really solve the problems? What is “progress,” really? It is relative to whether or not you depend upon a capitalistic and materialistic society.
<<To cry racism and discrimination because they did not get their way in politics is foolhardy and dangerous. Dangerous because the louder they scream about racism in this country without verifiable facts to back it up, the more people start to ignore them>>
This statement is a little rowdy. I suppose that, if you think that it is wrong for ethnic minorities to fight for their right to equality in terms of government and the corporate ladder, and then it is also “silly” for women to cry discrimination when we are rejected time and time again because of male patriarchical traditions (biases)? I do not even want to understand your theory about “crying wolf.” It strikes me as ridiculous! People need to stand up for equal representation. Just look at the majority of CEO’s and upper management positions: male, white. So, should we simply accept that neither blacks nor women can ever break this mould? If not, is it a suggestion that minorities and women are not educated? Are not capable? If not, then what is the problem and what is wrong with standing up for rights? I am not suggesting that NAACP is an ideal organisation however, it is necessary to have groups that point out problems and deficiencies.
You know, any instance of discrimination is wrong, so I do not understand how you can accuse people of “crying racism.” As soon as one is being judged on matters of race/ethnicity and gender it is an act of discrimination.
<<. There are corporations out there, and people within some of the big corporations that follow their sense of right and wrong and use fair business practices. These companies invent faster, more effective rockets, fuel cells etc that make space exploration more conceivable and everyday living better for all of us.>>
Yes, and they also invent weapons and bombs. The product that they create does not determine whether or not they employ fair business practices. Can you please enlighten me as to how space exploration is making “everyday life better for all of us” because I can find many more important ventures that could be invested in that would ameliorate our current social situation. It is easy for middle and upper classes to support these useless ventures (and if not useless, they are no as important as feeding the hungry and educating the children).
<< Forgive the sins of the past of your fellow man, but never forget the choices and errors that lead to these sins. >>
I believe this better suits my argument. Instead of “not forgetting the errors,” how about doing something about them, first by recognising that they are a cause of many of the social situations that damage society today.
Leslee
