[tigerthelion]

I can understand the importance of maintaining the highest level of quality available for mass download. I remember before the days of the tracker when I first got into downloading boots through the internet...perhaps 7ish years ago. I was blown away by the DMB community and how they strived to maintain the integrity of each and every bootleg that was out there. At the time I got almost all of my Hip boots via trees or B&P and I always wished the Hip had a community of traders/collectors who cared as much for the quality of the music as did the DMB fans. We now have that community and it is very much alive and doing well.

FLAC are extremely easy to figure out and all a person needs to do is a wee bit of reading, of which links have been provided here. Once you have the FLACs conversion is a snap.

Yes, but is putting a few songs up for download as mp3's really causing that much trouble? Playing flac files is no problem for me because I just play them in winamp and i don't usually convert to mp3 anyway because i don't have an ipod or mp3 player...YET. Sure, it isn't difficult to convert but is it really that big of a deal? I mean, really? How valuable is this "integrity" we speak of? I mean, will it hurt The Tragically Hip if someone dl's a few mp3 files instead of a few flac files this time?

[Corby]

I can see the concern in spreading lossy files. It becomes a problem when the lossy files become the only surviving/widely available version. I personally don't see too much of a problem with sharing mp3s since I convert all my music for portable audio anyway, but keep the lossless for sharing, though. When you start to lose the lineage of the music it can quickly get out of control, and it only takes a couple generations of bad transfers to ruin the music. Maybe you can't tell the difference between the FLAC and a 192kbps mp3, but copy that mp3 to a disc, give it to a friend, they rip it at 128, burn a copy for another friend in a few months. That copy could end up in a collector's hands and they don't know where it came from or how to get the original. That would drive me nuts, personally.

I don't think anyone around here has issues with mp3s for personal use, but no one wants to see the integrity of the recording lost. I think if the mp3s were distributed there would be more copies out there than the lossless version, and that isn't doing much for the preservation.

I think this topic should be moved to its own thread.

[tigerthelion]

I can see the concern in spreading lossy files. It becomes a problem when the lossy files become the only surviving/widely available version. I personally don't see too much of a problem with sharing mp3s, I convert all my music for portable audio anyway, but keep the lossless for sharing. When you start to lose the lineage of the music it can quickly get out of control, and it only takes a couple generations of bad transfers to ruin the music. Maybe you can't tell the difference between the FLAC and a 192kbps mp3, but copy that mp3 to a disc, give it to a friend, they rip it at 128, burn a copy for another friend in a few months. That copy could end up in a collector's hands and they don't know where it came from or how to get the original. That would drive me nuts, personally.

I don't think anyone around here has issues with mp3s for personal use, but no one wants to see the integrity of the recording lost. I think if the mp3s were distributed there would be more copies out there than the lossless version, and that isn't doing much for the preservation.

I think this topic should be moved to its own thread.

I understand what you are saying but.....I don't understand why the integrity of the recording is so valuable. What's the worst case scenario? What if someone had a copy that was of lower quality than another guy? What's the big problem? Are people going to go around comparing each other's copies? Are people going to do physical harm to others because their copy is of a little lower quality? I mean, does every copy of a bootleg have to have perfect sound? What are the consequences of having a few lower quality bootlegs? I'm being serious with this question.

[Corby]

Lol. Tiger, I think the main thing is, those who wish to distribute the FLACs want any future collector to get the same quality they had. There's no law about it, I guess maybe its a courtesy. And yes, I think for some people there would be a bit of pride involved. There just isn't that much involved with going for better quality.

[tigerthelion]

Lol. Tiger, I think the main thing is, those who wish to distribute the FLACs want any future collector to get the same quality they had. There's no law about it, I guess maybe its a courtesy. And yes, I think for some people there would be a bit of pride involved. There just isn't that much involved with going for better quality.

Ok, I can certainly understand that. It still doesn't seem like a big deal but I guess to the distributors, it is a big deal. Fair enough. If it is a courtesy, that's great but what if the person receiving a lossy or little less lossless files is content with their copy?

Anyway, I understand that it is common policy among traders.

[Corby]

What's the worst case scenario? What are the consequences of having a few lower quality bootlegs? I'm being serious with this question.

Worst case scenario? Every Hip fan in the world is selectively murdered by a fascist music hating regime. The Final Solution All of their music is burned in the street. Centuries later, the regime is overthrown and the Great Music Recovery period begins. The only surviving copies are lossy cd's made by friends of friends. The music is lost forever.

I think that most of the Lossless Question comes from the fact that collectors are sticklers. They see collecting as an art, and the finest form of it is in original copies of the music, the next best thing is an exact duplicate. Thats the way the music should be heard. Who knows the lineage of this latest tape? Maybe it could've been better quality if someone hadn't copied it. I heard a few people bitching about it already, hopefully not anyone making a comment about "who cares if its just mp3."

[Corby]

but what if the person receiving a lossy or little less lossless files is content with their copy?

Here was my original thought:

"I don't see any problem as long as it was only going to those who would use it only for personal use."

Then I second-thought-ed it:

"In one generation there is already a loss in quality(from Flac to mp3), albeit minute. What if someone they knew was content with a little less-less-lossless?"

I don't know which thought is right.

[Billy]

I downloaded the flac files today and it was a busy enough torrent that it was done when I got home from work. I converted the flac's to wav's and then put those on my Creative Zen. The conversion was nice and easy and only one step.

If you have a hard drive MP3 player, chances are you have 20gb or higher for storage. Just put the wav files on your mp3 player like you would any mp3 songs and you're in business.

To get them as mp3's then upload them somewhere for download, one of us has to convert them from flac to mp3, and really, what's the point of that?

I could see if you were on dial-up and a flac download would take you forever, but otherwise...nope.

[chris]

Or put them into a lossless compressed format that your portable, or computer player can play. I use Apple Lossless for all my audio files. Smaller files, yet still lossless.

If the freeloading downloaders can't respect the wishes of the people who post the material, perhaps we should just stop posting the material.

Now... let's get back to the original discussion of the content on the tape: The alternate NOIS lyrics were performed in a concert or two; I remember hearing them, and discussing it here. I'm off to test the search engine!

[Tthip]

The alternate NOIS lyrics were performed in a concert or two; I remember hearing them, and discussing it here. I'm off to test the search engine!

Here is another version from 1988 that contains the extra verse. I do not remember what show it is from right now.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.thehundredthmeridian.com/downloads/16-NOIS.mp3">http://www.thehundredthmeridian.com/dow ... 6-NOIS.mp3</a><!-- m --> (look guys MP3!)

On another note, on the way into work this morning the last song that played in the car was Rain, Hearts, Fires.
Well for the last half hour I have been sitting at my desk singing "Montreal"
Is it just my mind playing tricks on me or by some chance does anyone else hear similarities - maybe Rain became Montreal.

[Daryl24]

i have dial-up and there is no way i'll be getting this downloaded anytime soon...

*edit* actually i've just got azureus here at work :p

[chris]

Just ask for a B&P...

[Daryl24]

Just ask for a B&P...

I probably should be familiar with that but...what is B&P ?

[hotmetal401]

On another note, on the way into work this morning the last song that played in the car was Rain, Hearts, Fires.
Well for the last half hour I have been sitting at my desk singing "Montreal"
Is it just my mind playing tricks on me or by some chance does anyone else hear similarities - maybe Rain became Montreal.

I'm not hearing that, but I hear a lot of "Ouch" in "Leather Man." It's missing the signature bass line that made "Ouch" what it was, but I can see similarities.

Also, is it just me, or does "It Came Round" borrow heavilly from Clapton's "Cocaine"?

Cheers,

Pat

[chris]

Just ask for a B&P...

I probably should be familiar with that but...what is B&P ?

Sorry 'bout that.

B&P = Blanks & Postage

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.mcnichol.com/bnp/">http://www.mcnichol.com/bnp/</a><!-- m -->

Basically you send a package containing blank CDs and a self addressed, stamped envelope to a willing fan who burns the show onto the CDs for you, and sends them back to you in the enelope you provided.