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cferneyh · 09-01-2005, 04:20 PM

Chris Tanz Wrote:She could have averted a lot of controversy by calling the song "Potentially Ironic".

She could have averted a lot of "controversy" by using examples of irony, rather than examples of bad luck.

But that would have required her to think and produce something original, and as the Jagged Pill Acoustic has proved, she's fresh out of original.

Chris Tanz · 09-01-2005, 05:41 PM

cferneyh Wrote:
Chris Tanz Wrote:She could have averted a lot of controversy by calling the song "Potentially Ironic".

She could have averted a lot of "controversy" by using examples of irony, rather than examples of bad luck.

well, thanks for missing my point completely.

if you think ending up with 10,000 (TEN THOUSAND!) spoons when all you need is a knife is just run-o'-the-mill bad luck, remind me not to go walking under any ladders or breaking any mirrors with you.

ct

Lizard King · 09-01-2005, 05:43 PM

I still want to know how you can get 10,000 spoons in a drawer or cupboard? Confused

cratch:

Chris Tanz · 09-01-2005, 05:57 PM

LizardKing51 Wrote:I still want to know how you can get 10,000 spoons in a drawer or cupboard? cratch:

irony, piled on irony ...

not only is she searching for a single knife, she ends up with a drawer impossibly filled with spoons... Picture her opening a drawer to an explosion of cutlery, every single last one of them the wrong piece. Can't you imagine yourself in that situation saying "Well, I can count on a lot of things in this life, but I certainly didn't see that coming. That was perversely unexpected and the opposite of the way I thought things would turn out."

and also, I don't buy the "it's just bad luck" comeback from people dissing the song ... when did "luck" get so unambiguously well-defined that that's the label to attach to all those situations. Why is it unlucky to get a free ride when you've already paid. Isn't that just an outlay of money for a service that could have been obtained gratis. What, exactly, is unlucky about rain on your wedding day that isn't also ironic in some way? Unless there some kind of expectational value about the kind of weather one would hope for or envision on a monumental day in one's life, which would be dashed when such hopes and visions did not come to fruition, then isn't rain just weather. Maybe she should have called the song "Instances of Weather and Other Assorted Experiences with no Unifying Theme".

And, yep, she sold the album again at Starbucks. Don't know how it makes a difference, but she sure did.

ct

cferneyh · 09-01-2005, 05:59 PM

Chris Tanz Wrote:
cferneyh Wrote:
Chris Tanz Wrote:She could have averted a lot of controversy by calling the song "Potentially Ironic".

She could have averted a lot of "controversy" by using examples of irony, rather than examples of bad luck.

well, thanks for missing my point completely.

if you think ending up with 10,000 (TEN THOUSAND!) spoons when all you need is a knife is just run-o'-the-mill bad luck, remind me not to go walking under any ladders or breaking any mirrors with you.

ct

Well, let's see what the songwriter has to say:

Alanis Morissette once said herself that the biggest irony of "Ironic" is that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all."

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song</a>)

The. End.

Chris Tanz · 09-01-2005, 06:00 PM

cferneyh Wrote:
Chris Tanz Wrote:
cferneyh Wrote:
Chris Tanz Wrote:She could have averted a lot of controversy by calling the song "Potentially Ironic".

She could have averted a lot of "controversy" by using examples of irony, rather than examples of bad luck.

well, thanks for missing my point completely.

if you think ending up with 10,000 (TEN THOUSAND!) spoons when all you need is a knife is just run-o'-the-mill bad luck, remind me not to go walking under any ladders or breaking any mirrors with you.

ct

Well, let's see what the songwriter has to say:

Alanis Morissette once said herself that the biggest irony of "Ironic" is that there is no irony in the lyrics: "The irony of 'Ironic' is that it's not an ironic song at all."

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song</a>)

For a guy who has admitted he likes to argue for arguments sake, you sure suck at it.

I wonder if she said that after everyone in the world took a huge dump on the song.

ct

I quoted you before you could edit out the ad hominem, too.

cferneyh · 09-01-2005, 06:02 PM

Great comeback. OK, we're all wrong, you are right. And Alanis changed her mind.

Sure, OK.

cferneyh · 09-01-2005, 06:08 PM

Chris Tanz Wrote:I quoted you before you could edit out the ad hominem, too.

Actually, it's not an ad hominem at all. You do suck at arguing, particularly when the songwriter herself proves you wrong. But I thought I went a little over the top in mentioning it the first time. This time, I'll stick with it.

Chris Tanz · 09-01-2005, 06:30 PM

wow. you say one (or ten ... okay fifteen) bad things about John Ferguson Jr. and the guy holds a grudge.

anyway, you're probably right that rolling over and giving up when met with revisionist commentary from a pop songstress who may or may not have any idea what true irony is when you're trying to suggest, not that Alanis Morisette has or hasn't any clue what she is talking about, but that in the song called "Ironic" there are in fact instances of irony if you can accept for a moment that one line in a song may be open to interpretation, perhaps even beyond what the songwriter intended, and may not be required to be taken literally in every instance, is a better approach to the art of debate.

can't wait till we sign Thornton and Hossa next year,
ct

EDIT: Sorry to hijack the thread. Slow day at work today.

cferneyh · 09-01-2005, 06:59 PM

Now I get it:

CT: I think Alanis takes unfair criticism, there is irony in that song.
Others: No there isn't.
Alanis: No there isn't.
CT: Well, it's open to interpretation, and my interpretation is right and everyone else's - including ALANIS HERSELF - is wrong.

Can't wait to hear what you would have done with the Leafs this year. Still waiting for that. So easy to criticize, yet so difficult to prove you have a better plan. At this rate you'll have Al Strachan's job by Christmas.

googolplex · 09-01-2005, 07:19 PM

We have a thread about a tragedy in New Orleans. Granted, we're relating it to song lyrics, but I think this thread deserves more respect than this bickering.

Cpt. Trips · 09-01-2005, 09:06 PM

Hey, maybe we can get a Tragically Hip New Orleans benifit show out of this...

patiodweller · 09-01-2005, 09:24 PM

Yes. The city is dear to their heart isn't it?

lord brazle · 09-01-2005, 10:51 PM

:lol: BEST. THREAD. EVER.

Prime example of the stuff I missed from the Hipbase.

I stand to mention 2 parts of my opinion on the current subject;

1) That Jagged Little Pill is one of the greatest albums of the 90s
and everything Alanis did before it sucked
and everything she has done since has sucked.

2) The stuff in the song is ironic. Look at the lyrics and think about it.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/alanismorissette/ironic.html">http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/alanismo ... ronic.html</a>

And we're off-topic...

longseason · 09-02-2005, 10:21 AM

Alanis' quote about the irony of the song not containing irony is pretty weak.

Nothing in her lyrics in Jagged Little Pill even approach the idea of the idea of met-irony or meta anything.

She pulled that quote from a grad student methinks.

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