[Gov'tMule]

Where the hell is this "Canada" place anyway?

[vicariousmartyr]

Oh yeah, whats different in Canada?

The lack of a strong, unifying national mythology based on notions of exceptionalism and good old manifest destiny?

The failure of some people to question that mythology is the source of comments like, "Canada is an American suburb."

Thats too specific, and not what Im referring to. In general, like any nation, we have a systematically distorted sense of our history.

This being a cornerstone to what we call nationalism.

[skippy the wonder dog]

More generally, then: Canada lacks a strong, unifying mythology.

This makes our distorted sense of history different from countries such as the United States, which possess strong, unifying national myths. In those countries, national myths are political levers and as such are continually played upon and reinforced.

This is one of the reasons that Canadian nationalism is relatively weak.

[lord brazle]

I think all countries are prone to have at least some errors of judgement when it comes to what's taught in history classes. My high school history classes centered specifically around world events. I literally learned nothing of Canada. A quick list of what was covered off the top of my head; Bay Of Pigs, all the wars (from 1812 to Nam), the Suez Canal, etc. I only learned primarily Canadian history when I was in grade school and still, that was all candy-coated.

But America puts a good sense of patriotism forward with all the symbols it has. The Statue Of Liberty, Mt Rushmore and Empire State buildings have all made appearances in movies and such and, like Skippy said, it's diced together with this strong American mythology.

*If my previous post was considered by some to be that of a negative impression of America, I apologize (especially to my southern brothers and sisters). It seems this thread might turn into some America-bashing thing. I was merely making an observation about America and its international reputation/role.*

I don't really have an issue with America. Or any other country for that matter. Wouldn't having something against some particular country be sistered with this freak-nationalism, this extreme patriotism? Loving a country as opposed to hating a country? I'm neither. But I can do without all this proganda about America being a great country and all this shit. Is America a better country than say.. Egypt? Or Canada for that matter? The answer's bullshit no matter which way you cut it. There shouldn't be a "greater" country or anything like that.

By hyping your country up and saying it's a great country is basically saying other countries are not as great. I wouldn't say Canada's a great country just because I was born here. I'm not a patriot. But I am Canadian and, as Canadian, I certainly fall into the stereotype of a Canadian. And I do have a certain admiration for things that are Canadian. But do we all sit around drinking beer and watching hockey? No. So in defense of Americans, I'd ask my Canadian friends to watch how they diss the average American.

If your engine runs on stereotypes you'll be bumming a ride tomorrow. :thumb:

Plus, it could be argued that because of America's mythology (or what could commonly be conceived as it's "arrogance") is the primary reason of 9/11. I mean, why America? You could say that America is like a celebrity and with the greater frequency of people that admire you or the accomplishments you may acheive, the greater of a frequency will there be of those who hate you and think of you as undeserving of your status. Certainly there haven't been terrorist attacks on Canada of such a magnitude as 9/11 but then again, in an international game of dodgeball, Canada aims below the waist.

This is merely the waste of my opinion on these matters. I certainly don't mean to go either way on the America:Good Or America:Bad fence. I don't mean to start a debate on the root cause for 9/11 or that America is arrogant. I'm just saying it's a country. No matter what the politicians or citizens or corporations can say in regards to a country, it's still just a country and not a living breathing entity. It's a group of people living in a geographic boundary under certain laws, by certain standards and codes that may, and do, differ from other countries. It's not an individual and all the people that live in it aren't clones of a stereotype or something.

And I'm spent. :wink:

[tragicallymike]

Probably your finest post!

I think all countries are prone to have at least some errors of judgement when it comes to what's taught in history classes. My high school history classes centered specifically around world events. I literally learned nothing of Canada. A quick list of what was covered off the top of my head; Bay Of Pigs, all the wars (from 1812 to Nam), the Suez Canal, etc. I only learned primarily Canadian history when I was in grade school and still, that was all candy-coated.

But America puts a good sense of patriotism forward with all the symbols it has. The Statue Of Liberty, Mt Rushmore and Empire State buildings have all made appearances in movies and such and, like Skippy said, it's diced together with this strong American mythology.

*If my previous post was considered by some to be that of a negative impression of America, I apologize (especially to my southern brothers and sisters). It seems this thread might turn into some America-bashing thing. I was merely making an observation about America and its international reputation/role.*

I don't really have an issue with America. Or any other country for that matter. Wouldn't having something against some particular country be sistered with this freak-nationalism, this extreme patriotism? Loving a country as opposed to hating a country? I'm neither. But I can do without all this proganda about America being a great country and all this shit. Is America a better country than say.. Egypt? Or Canada for that matter? The answer's bullshit no matter which way you cut it. There shouldn't be a "greater" country or anything like that.

By hyping your country up and saying it's a great country is basically saying other countries are not as great. I wouldn't say Canada's a great country just because I was born here. I'm not a patriot. But I am Canadian and, as Canadian, I certainly fall into the stereotype of a Canadian. And I do have a certain admiration for things that are Canadian. But do we all sit around drinking beer and watching hockey? No. So in defense of Americans, I'd ask my Canadian friends to watch how they diss the average American.

If your engine runs on stereotypes you'll be bumming a ride tomorrow. :thumb:

Plus, it could be argued that because of America's mythology (or what could commonly be conceived as it's "arrogance") is the primary reason of 9/11. I mean, why America? You could say that America is like a celebrity and with the greater frequency of people that admire you or the accomplishments you may acheive, the greater of a frequency will there be of those who hate you and think of you as undeserving of your status. Certainly there haven't been terrorist attacks on Canada of such a magnitude as 9/11 but then again, in an international game of dodgeball, Canada aims below the waist.

This is merely the waste of my opinion on these matters. I certainly don't mean to go either way on the America:Good Or America:Bad fence. I don't mean to start a debate on the root cause for 9/11 or that America is arrogant. I'm just saying it's a country. No matter what the politicians or citizens or corporations can say in regards to a country, it's still just a country and not a living breathing entity. It's a group of people living in a geographic boundary under certain laws, by certain standards and codes that may, and do, differ from other countries. It's not an individual and all the people that live in it aren't clones of a stereotype or something.

And I'm spent. :wink:

[skippy the wonder dog]

By hyping your country up and saying it's a great country is basically saying other countries are not as great.

Well, I think Canada's a great country. I also think the US is a great country.

Wow. That was easy.

So in defense of Americans, I'd ask my Canadian friends to watch how they diss the average American.

Well, it's probably not your intent, but this whole "don't be anti-American" rhetoric annoys me. Certainly, anti-Americanism exists, but at present in Canada any criticism of the US is branded anti-American.

Many Americans criticize US policy, US leadership, or aspects of their own national character. They don't get called "anti-American" any more than Canadians get called "anti-Canadian" for saying that Paul Martin and/or Stephen Harper is a dork, or that our perception of ourselves as international boy scouts is false.

It's time to recognize this whole "anti-American" argument for what it is: a straw man argument erected by politicians for political ends.

Despite what ya say, Brazle, nations are like people (which isn't the same as confusing the nation with the individual). And like people, they can be flawed and decent at the same time. It's okay to see both sides.

[Gov'tMule]

>>Many Americans criticize US policy, US leadership, or aspects of their own national character. They don't get called "anti-American"

Naw, we just send them to Guantanamo.



Everything I know about Canada I learned from South Park.