[Jenna_Bird]

Woah, hold on there. It isn't fair to make generalizations about an entire nation based on a leader's mistakes. I know that I, and plenty of other people, are fighting like hell to get Bush out of office. I don't really see how disagreeing with Bush and wanting him out of office is "bitching". I think of it as desire for progress.

-Jenna

[The Darkest Canuck]

the bitching part was actually about us north of the 49th, i know a lot of you are trying really hard to get Dubya out of office, and i commend you for doing so, BUT, the fact that he even got into office, and by such a thin margin (quite possibly the same thin margin by which he actually lost the last election :roll, and that voter turnouts were/are so low, and that so many people really don't care, or don't bother to get informed, is very troubling, and reflects quite piss poorly on your country *shrugs*, not an insult, just an observation, i feel sorry for you guys having to put up with him, it must be incredibly frustrating.

[grooveless touque]

It's 18-5 for Kerry so far.

This leads me to ask an obvious question, but one with depeer roots than this poll:

Does Bush supporters not have internet access or what?! Out of all the Americans I have ever known in my entire life online - there must be hundreds over the past decade - I would say at least 4 out of 5 are Democrats and/or Bush-bashers. And yet when I go to the States, I find a closer-to-50-50 mixture (but still with a strong skew to the left). When I toured New England during the Clinton (Republican-driven hypefest) scandal, I found the vast majority of people I met were against censuring him. So where are all the Bushleaguers hiding?? How come all I ever meet are Democrats and people who are against Bush?? Obviously there are a few notable Bush supporters on here, and I am not - NOT - trying to marginalize them. But it's an impression I have had for years and years and years - almost all the Americans I come to know online are left-leaning. Does anybody else find this?

[Jenna_Bird]

It is frustrating. The apathy of many people in this country infuriates me more than most anything else. Sorry that I misunderstood your post, or if I seemed abrasive.

-Jenna

[CanuckCourage]

Definitely Kerry

Some of the points that stand out to me for my reasons to vote for Kerry:

1) I dont agree with the Iraq war and I dont like where this country is going
2) Government has NO right to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body...abortion is between a woman,her partner and her doctor. A government should not be allowed to make a decision like that. Bush believes that we can just educate people on how to have abstinence and sexual education...yeah that'll work :roll:
3) Health Insurance...My husband and I are one of the 47 million Americans without health insurance. We are small business owners and NOTHING has changed since Bush has been in office. Premiums are still unaffordable.
4) Stem Cell Research.. I want a president who believes in science and the future of medical advances
5) I want a president who takes responsibilty for our part in the environment
6) I believe in Gay rights and I know noone that is gay, I just believe that it should be the right of every person to marry who they love

I dont mean to write a book, but these are some of my strong points for voting for Kerry

Plus, I dont think I can take 4 more years of the way Bush says NU-CU-LEAR :?

Good points, well said Jen. :thumb: Unlike Dubya's NU-CU-LEAR :lol:

"ABORTIONS FOR ALL"

crowd: "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

"ABORTIONS FOR SOME, MINIATURE AMERICAN FLAGS FOR OTHERS"

crowd: "YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!"

That's just plain funny ! :mrgreen:

[Stephen Dame]

Where's the Nader Love? I demand to know who's in charge...

[The Darkest Canuck]

it's good to know that abortion jokes are funny and sexual harassment jokes aren't :mrgreen:, this is how we learn people, through trial and error, i am highly scientific in my methods of madness...or maybe just madly high :mrgreen:.

[CanuckCourage]

The abortions aren't funny, but the American flags touch made me crack up . :lol: Just how easy it is to please people, it would be like in Canada ...

" 10% tax increase !"

Crowd " BOOOOOOOOO"

"10 % tax increase for those working and a free Don Cherry Bubba can !"

Crowd "YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY"

:lol:

[Lizard King]

I was watching the debate and I see 2 people standing on stage.....hmm I would like to see more of a choice, a different view a different party represented, it was like watching a gunfight outstide the saloon. At least in Canada we can choose from 4 or 5 different parties, I was upset the Green party never got to be in the debate, they had some interesting ideas. I think every political party deserves a say, let the people decide! I think America needs a change. Vote 4 Kerry!!!!!!!! Take the lesser of two evils :lol:

[jen]

Just to add: I can't wait for the day when there is actually an atheist president. Someday there will hopefully be a serious separation of church and state. To me, that day can not come soon enough. :?

[VioletlightHeron]

To answer Neil's question, there actually are alot of conservatives online. I've been in Yahoo politics chat rooms and there seems to be a broad mix of conservatives debating and arguing with liberals and also arguing amongst ourselves. One spot to check out conservative thought in a blog is littlegreenfootballs(sorry dont remember the address, just google it and you'll find it). I've never actually talked with another conservative about their taste in music, so I cant explain the dichotomy of my political beliefs and my taste in music.

Jen, with regards to an atheist president, I'm not so sure that would be a good thing. I don't hold alot of truck with the christian conservatives because I am a skeptic about organized religion and agendas, both secular and non secular. This country, and alot of other countries, were founded by men with varying degrees of religious beliefs and the important thing in my mind is that the state and religion be seperate and equal partners in the stability of society. I look at the seperation of church and state by the Founding Fathers as a mechanism to prevent one official religion from being pushed on the citizens of society. I don't believe the Founding Fathers had the intention of having religion and moral beliefs excluded from the foundation of mens philosphical beliefs of the purpose and action of government. I don't think the sky would be falling if an atheist was campaigning for the presidency, but I think he or she would be wise to promise to respect the religious and moral philosphies that make up the foundation of our government.

[LastStop]

Just to add: I can't wait for the day when there is actually an atheist president. Someday there will hopefully be a serious separation of church and state. To me, that day can not come soon enough. :?

Will never happen in our lifetime. Perhaps several generations from now, but we definitely won't live to see it.

[Kim]

Just to add: I can't wait for the day when there is actually an atheist president. Someday there will hopefully be a serious separation of church and state. To me, that day can not come soon enough. :?

Will never happen in our lifetime. Perhaps several generations from now, but we definitely won't live to see it.

Yeah I think you're right. I remember there was an article in a Dutch newspaper last week in which a journalist travelled to the USA and interviewed people there about their vote in the upcoming elections. One couple answered "We're going to vote for Bush because he is a religious man". That was it - I felt like smacking them. This was an elderly couple and although I understand that in their generation religion meant everything, to base such a major decision on religion these days is just wrong in my opinion.

[The Horrible Esthete]

Definitely Kerry

2) Government has NO right to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body...abortion is between a woman,her partner and her doctor. A government should not be allowed to make a decision like that. Bush believes that we can just educate people on how to have abstinence and sexual education...yeah that'll work :roll:

...to go further, what about women who are raped, or victims of sex crimes? Should they be forced to have a baby?

I dont think anyone can say to a woman that she cannot have the choice. It just seems so fundamental to me... I really can't wrap my head around that.

First, addressing the statement that "Government has NO right to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body...abortion is between a woman,her partner and her doctor." (highwaygirl28).

Hmmm. Notice that the baby to be killed doesn't even get mentioned in this equation. I guess abortion supporters just ignore the fundamental principle that a woman has NO right to terminate a human life.... I can't wrap my head around that!!

Secondly, I understand only 1% of abortion cases involve an impregnated rape victim. What I don't understand is how killing the baby in these cases lessens the heinousness of the rape? Baby didn't rape anyone! Hey, life sometimes brings cruel tragedy and unthinkable decisions, but exterminating unborn humans doesn't figure to be a justifiable and civilized response to any criminal act. There's always the option of adoption services, youknow. And the nuturing of that baby gives it its due right to life, potentially becoming an asset to society and an unforseen joy to the victimized mother or the adopting parents. The bottom line is that humans have NO right to qualify the circumstances surrounding the creation of life.

[Kim]

Definitely Kerry

2) Government has NO right to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body...abortion is between a woman,her partner and her doctor. A government should not be allowed to make a decision like that. Bush believes that we can just educate people on how to have abstinence and sexual education...yeah that'll work :roll:

...to go further, what about women who are raped, or victims of sex crimes? Should they be forced to have a baby?

I dont think anyone can say to a woman that she cannot have the choice. It just seems so fundamental to me... I really can't wrap my head around that.

First, addressing the statement that "Government has NO right to tell a woman what she can and can not do with her body...abortion is between a woman,her partner and her doctor." (highwaygirl28).

Hmmm. Notice that the baby to be killed doesn't even get mentioned in this equation. I guess abortion supporters just ignore the fundamental principle that a woman has NO right to terminate a human life.... I can't wrap my head around that!!

Secondly, I understand only 1% of abortion cases involve an impregnated rape victim. What I don't understand is how killing the baby in these cases lessens the heinousness of the rape? Baby didn't rape anyone! Hey, life sometimes brings cruel tragedy and unthinkable decisions, but exterminating unborn humans doesn't figure to be a justifiable and civilized response to any criminal act. There's always the option of adoption services, youknow. And the nuturing of that baby gives it its due right to life, potentially becoming an asset to society and an unforseen joy to the victimized mother or the adopting parents. The bottom line is that humans have NO right to qualify the circumstances surrounding the creation of life.

I don't know, this is just such a complex topic.

I can understand where people who are against abortion come from. After all we outlaw murder, so why should we condone mother's that get rid of their babies? However when is a baby a baby? Should we call it a baby at conception when it's just a lump of cells or is it a baby once we can distinguish all the different anatomical features which make a human a human? I don't have the answers.

The only thing I keep on thinking about is the rape victim, even though they comprise only a small percentage. How can we force (young) traumatised rape victims to carry a baby to term who's only reason for being is the crime that traumatised their mothers in the first place? What about sexual abuse, incest even - a girl pregnant with her father's baby? I can't begin to imagine what that must be like - I get shivers at the mere thought.

I'm pro choice because I feel that rational human beings should be allowed to make up their own minds about these kinds of things. Girls that despite the trauma decide to keep their babies are courageous and I hope they are able to restore their lives and bring joy to the life of their unborn child. However I don't think it's fair to enforce a decision upon a girl when the vast majority of us have no clue what being raped is like.