[The Horrible Esthete]

Skippy, I don't remember arguing against the point that there is a need to reform the electoral system. I have no real qualms with the overall premise of the electoral system per se, or the way the electors are delegated; rather it is voter registration circus and the partisan wrangling over ballot administration, casting, and counting that continue to be a serious problems.

Look, it's not like I think the Dems are the only ones who are exploiting the weaknessess in the system and trying to capitalize on its flaws. I'd be ignorant to assume that only one party does it. However, it's not like there are any large, high-profile organizations turning in huge numbers of questionable or duplicate new registrations for lower-income rural Ohio voters. No, scores of registrations that are sending up red flags are from ACORN, an organization that is securely in the pocket of the Democratic presidential nominee.

And might I suggest that it's one thing for the losing side to cry 'foul' in desperation AFTER the the ballots are counted; it's another entirely to question suspiscious registrations a month, two months, three months in advance of Election Day.

Furthermore, this whole issue is exacerbated by Jennifer Brunner, Ohio's Secretary of State, who ran for office on the platform of "ensuring confidence in Ohio's elections", pledging that Ohio elections be "free, fair, open and honest". Yet a federal judge ruled that she was breaking the law by not allowing county election boards to cross-check questionable new registrations (a ruling which has since been overturned by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals). So much for her pledge of "transparency".

Even The Columbus Dispatch, a notorious liberal rag, asserts a lack of credibility in her office in a recent editorial.

And Phil, you can spout off as many outrageous overgeneralizations about how "Republicans hate low income people and don't want them to vote" you want, and you can parrot the tagline about how ACORN is a honest, by-the-book, "non-partisan" organization who is just trying to help people exercise their civil rights. That is your right.

But I have the right to answer with one of these: :roll:

And for the record, I don't even consider myself a "Republican". I probably lean to the right on more issues than I do to the left, but there are a number of issues where I do lean left, believe it or not. And I SO wish there were more independents running for offices. I can tell you that I will be voting for the independent candidate for the Ohio 2nd Congressional District race.

[NegPhil]

(And Phil, you can spout off as many outrageous overgeneralizations about how "Republicans hate low income people and don't want them to vote" you want, and you can parrot the tagline about how ACORN is a honest, by-the-book, "non-partisan" organization who is just trying to help people exercise their civil rights. That is your right. )


Thank you for supporting my right to Spout outrageous generalizations.

The only outrageous generalization I made was by not admitting that it's not "poor people" Republicans hate, it's poor African Americans and Latinos they really hate.

That is the reality of this suposed Urban Vs. Rural malarky.

Poor white people vote Republican despite the fact that Republican policy hurts them personally. Tax cuts, Health care, quality education, infrastructure, environmental standards, labor and farming policy are all issues championed by Democrats. Issues about and for working class people.

Ask John Mc Cain why he was the Key Note Speaker at the 2006 ACORN Annual Banquet. The answer is because they are a non-partisan organization.

This argument is about race.

They are trying to scare people.

They call Sen. Obama a "Community Organizer". That's republican for uppity blacks, Jews and Catholics. (Watch the movie "Mississippi Burning" it's about them pesky "Community Organizers".) The fact is Obama was the Editor of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated at the top of his Harvard Law class. He taught United States Constitutional Law for 12 years. He served in the Illinois State Senate and then as a U.S. Senator. Community Organizer my ass.

They blame the economic collapse on black and Latino families AKA Fanny May and Freddy Mac.

They blame ACORN for rigging voter roles when the have never submitted a false registration. The problem is they registered primarily urban black people.

The Republicans have illegal purged hundreds of thousands of people from the voter rolls. They have rigged the electronic machines againand refuse to supply machines in black neighborhoods. They have engaged in a systematic campaign of voter suppression for decades.

They call him a Muslim Terrorist and the Anti-Christ.

This is not rhetoric or conspiracy theory. These are the facts.

[The Horrible Esthete]

I'll tweak some of your comments so they are closer to *actual facts* and not buzzwords, sweeping generalizations, or trite clichés:

1)

it's not "poor people" Republicans hate, it's poor African Americans and Latinos they really hate.

It's not "poor people" Republicans hate; what most Republicans "hate" is working hard, spending within their means, abiding by the law, taking responsibility for themselves, and sacrificing some of today's comforts for tomorrow's securities only to have their earnings taken from them and given over to those who can do the same yet do not, establishing a pattern of entitlement and reliance upon government handouts. The racial profiles of those who receive these handouts is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to most Republicans.

2)

Poor white people vote Republican despite the fact that Republican policy hurts them personally.

Some poor white people vote Republican despite the fact that Republican social policy may not help them as much as Democrat social policy would, primarily because they -- rightly or wrongly -- are willing to trade any increased social benefits for continued military spending and protection of the civil rights granted by the 2nd Amendment. Other poor white people vote Republican because some of the principles listed in #1 (above), despite the fact that they might be "better off" economically if they voted Democrat. The rest of the poor white people who vote Republican do so because they are bigots and fundamentalist crazies.

3)

Tax cuts, Health care, quality education, infrastructure, environmental standards, labor and farming policy are all issues championed by Democrats.

Democrats tend to champion tax cuts for the lower and lower-middle classes, tax HIKES for the upper-middle and upper classes, socialized or subsidized health care, environmental standards (particularly those which preclude offshore and ANWR oil exploration and extraction) labor UNIONS, and agriculture / infrastructure spending bills loaded with PORK.

4)

Ask John Mc Cain why he was the Key Note Speaker at the 2006 ACORN Annual Banquet. The answer is because they are a non-partisan organization.

The answer is: he wasn’t -- he was the keynote speaker at an event which focused on immigration reform which was co-sponsored by ACORN, the Florida Immigrant Advocacy Center, the Florida Immigrant Coalition, People for the American Way/Mi Familia/Vota en Accion, UNITE/HERE, Catholic Charities, the Service Employees International Union, and the New American Opportunity Campaign.... among other groups.

5)

They blame the economic collapse on black and Latino families AKA Fanny May and Freddy Mac.

They blame the economic collapse primarily on the bursting of the housing bubble, which was due in large part to the woefully unsound and risky lending practices of Fanny May and Freddy Mac; the racial profile of the individuals to whom they lent is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

6)

They blame ACORN for rigging voter roles when the have never submitted a false registration.

They blame ACORN for rigging voter roles, and today, ACORN leaders acknowledged that there has, in fact, been voter registration fraud this year: an ACORN official has recently been quoted as saying "Yes, we know there's been fraud. With a staff of some 13,000 canvassers, there will be some bad apples in the bunch".

7)

The Republicans have illegal purged hundreds of thousands of people from the voter rolls. They have rigged the electronic machines again and refuse to supply machines in black neighborhoods. They have engaged in a systematic campaign of voter suppression for decades.

Some claim that members of the Republican Party have “illegally purged” hundreds of thousands of people from the voter rolls, have “rigged” the electronic machines, and have “refused” to supply machines in black neighborhoods; however, most of these claims cannot be substantiated. It is likely that some Republicans have engaged in a systematic campaign of voter suppression for decades, but to imply that all or even a significant sample of registered Republicans condone this type of practice is a typically gross overgeneralization by left-wing radicals.

8 )

They call him a Muslim Terrorist and the Anti-Christ.

There are some ignorant f**ks and doomsday nutjobs who are so uneducated or delusional that they truly believe Obama is a Muslim Terrorist or the Anti-Christ. Most Republicans wouldn’t want to be associated with these douchebags.

[skippy the wonder dog]

Skippy, I don't remember arguing against the point that there is a need to reform the electoral system. I have no real qualms with the overall premise of the electoral system per se, or the way the electors are delegated; rather it is voter registration circus and the partisan wrangling over ballot administration, casting, and counting that continue to be a serious problems.

Well, we're agreed on that part then. I didn't bother reading the rest.

[NegPhil]

1.)

It's not "poor people" Republicans hate; what most Republicans "hate" is working hard, spending within their means, abiding by the law, taking responsibility for themselves, and sacrificing some of today's comforts for tomorrow's securities only to have their earnings taken from them and given over to those who can do the same yet do not, establishing a pattern of entitlement and reliance upon government handouts. The racial profiles of those who receive these handouts is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to most Republicans.

I agree that "republicans hate working hard, spending within their means, abiding the law, taking responsibilities for themselves and sacrificing some of today's comforts for tomorrows securities."

That pretty much sums up exactly what the republicans feel and how they have screwed up America. Can you say George Bush?

[youtube]ncBPB5odB8A[/youtube]





2.)

Some poor white people vote Republican despite the fact that Republican social policy may not help them as much as Democrat social policy would, primarily because they -- rightly or wrongly -- are willing to trade any increased social benefits for continued military spending and protection of the civil rights granted by the 2nd Amendment. Other poor white people vote Republican because some of the principles listed in #1 (above), despite the fact that they might be "better off" economically if they voted Democrat. The rest of the poor white people who vote Republican do so because they are bigots and fundamentalist crazies.

Again, your right on here. People vote republican because they are war loven gun nuts, fundamentalist crazies and bigots. Agreed.



[youtube]VCn-QAw_nmU[/youtube]



3.)

Democrats tend to champion tax cuts for the lower and lower-middle classes, tax HIKES for the upper-middle and upper classes, socialized or subsidized health care, environmental standards (particularly those which preclude offshore and ANWR oil exploration and extraction) labor UNIONS, and agriculture / infrastructure spending bills loaded with PORK.

Again dude, I agree. Except for your brainwashed knee jerk reaction against unions and pork. Sounds to me like your ass hat republican programing is stuck on "Fox and Friends" again. "Drill baby drill, unions bad, pork, pork, pork......"


[youtube]8o0iJDA7_lY&feature=related[/youtube]


4.)

The answer is: he wasn’t -- he was the keynote speaker at an event which focused on immigration reform which was co-sponsored by ACORN, the Florida Immigrant Advocacy Center, the Florida Immigrant Coalition, People for the American Way/Mi Familia/Vota en Accion, UNITE/HERE, Catholic Charities, the Service Employees International Union, and the New American Opportunity Campaign.... among other groups.

Ya got me dude, it was not a banquet it was a rally.

[youtube]JbT3WpeSN54[/youtube]



5.)

They blame the economic collapse primarily on the bursting of the housing bubble, which was due in large part to the woefully unsound and risky lending practices of Fanny May and Freddy Mac; the racial profile of the individuals to whom they lent is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

Again, agreed. Republicans blame them and then try to pretend it's not about race. Fanny May and Freddy Mac did not cause the global economic collapse. Wall Street bankers and George Bush/republican policy did.



Europe fumes over Wall Street meltdown
[youtube]ivVhuj6Klo0[/youtube]



6.)

They blame ACORN for rigging voter roles, and today, ACORN leaders acknowledged that there has, in fact, been voter registration fraud this year: an ACORN official has recently been quoted as saying "Yes, we know there's been fraud. With a staff of some 13,000 canvassers, there will be some bad apples in the bunch".

They have never denied that some kids who get paid $8 an hour to collect signatures sometimes cheat. They are caught, fired and prosecuted.


[youtube]CEd1D_E_VaE[/youtube]



7.)

Some claim that members of the Republican Party have “illegally purged” hundreds of thousands of people from the voter rolls, have “rigged” the electronic machines, and have “refused” to supply machines in black neighborhoods; however, most of these claims cannot be substantiated. It is likely that some Republicans have engaged in a systematic campaign of voter suppression for decades, but to imply that all or even a significant sample of registered Republicans condone this type of practice is a typically gross overgeneralization by left-wing radicals.

Dude your nuts. Facts are facts.


8.)

There are some ignorant f**ks and doomsday nutjobs who are so uneducated or delusional that they truly believe Obama is a Muslim Terrorist or the Anti-Christ. Most Republicans wouldn’t want to be associated with these douchebags.

Unfortunately John McCain spreads these lies himself. And for the record all republicans are ignorant F***tards and doomsday nut jobs.

The ONE- A web video from Republican John McCain.
[youtube]rUpM42X-DCs[/youtube]

[Jenna_Bird]

Neg, what I don't really understand is how you can say that W. is indicative of all Republicans. I find that horribly small-minded. Most of my loved ones are Republican, and they decry his missteps as much as I (the lone Democrat) do.

Additionally, there's a difference between truth and hysteria. I know you feel strongly about the things you post, but, really, how do you expect most of the things you say to be taken seriously when you're so....finger-pointy (sorry, end of a long teaching day, I can't think of a better word). I agree with you on some points, but let's throw some more rationality into the pot.

Does classism and/or racism have an effect on the way some vote? Sure. Does voting for policies that *could* be viewed discriminatory make you a bigot? No. There's plenty to be said for examining both sides of the issue.

-Jenna

[NegPhil]

I hear you. I really do.

I have nothing but respect for you and all the others I argue with here on the Hipbase.

My behavior has been intentional over the top. The intention is to challenge conventional wisdom and misinformation while provoking critical thinking and personal investigation of the subjects.

I suppose I should explain the context and purpose of my statements. NegPhil is my internet alter ego. The origins of Negative Phil date back to the 1990’s. He was developed to function as my Avatar/Iduro in the early days of the internet. He is based on the cyberpunk works of William Gibson and Neill Stephenson. The name and character is based on the film lighting term “negative fill light”.

Basic film lighting is comprised of a "Three Point Light" technique.
1. Key light- In front of the subject
2. Back light- From behind to define shape
3. Fill light- from the side to fill in and create depth

And then there’s negative fill. It’s the strategic application of shadow in order to enhance the subject.


(Negative fill light- Using a panel of some dark light-absorbing material when lighting a subject to create shadows, etc. Though logically meaningless, it’s a common enough and convenient way of describing the effect of placing a dark panel next to a subject, just out of camera view. The panel prevents light from reflecting off walls, etc., back onto the subject.)

It’s not real. Phil is not real. My actions are intended to call attention to the dire situation we find ourselves in.