[tigerthelion]

This former NBA player has come out AFTER his playing career as being gay. I personally think Amaechi should be condemned for this action. I don't think he should be condemned for being gay, but he should be condemned for not having the courage to come out as AN ACTIVE PLAYER and for MAKING MONEY FROM IT! Basically, he wrote a book and is profiting from being gay. I didn't know being gay was an accomplishment worthy of financial reward. I think Steve Nash or Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade should come out with a book called, "I AM A HETEROSEXUAL" and they should promote the book and make money off of it. It would only be fair.

This from a guy with Fiona and Norah pics in his signature?

Once again, I don't understand what you mean by that. I'm confused. cratch: cratch: cratch:

[tfoe]

I have to put my two cents into this discussion as I was bothered by it as soon as I heard the interview with Tim Hardaway. I agree on the freedom of speach part of this whole issue. The real issue here is the absolute stupidity of Tim Hardaway. This was a guy that was held in very high regard by anyone who was ever around him. Then he goes off and says he "Hates" Gay people. MORON!!!

No matter what your opinion of different issues are, you can't go off in the public eye by saying "I hate." What would his reaction be if a former white team mate came out and said I "hate" black people. What do you think Tim Hardaway says then. Freedom of speach is one thing but knowing when to keep you mouth shut is another!!

[cferneyh]

I can't say I've been paying too much attention to this nonsense, but didn't Hardaway say he hates homosexuals? But since that's him being "honest", that's OK? Huh? So if someone came out and said they hate Hardaway because he's black, would that be OK because they are being "honest"? Please.

Yes it is ok. If someone said they hate Hardaway because he's black, that's their right and they have the freedom to say it. Political correctness is making it impossible to express opinions these days. You darn well know that the majority of NBA players agree with Hardaway's comments. What makes him the villain? Because he didn't decline comment? What is Hardaway supposed to say, that he loves homosexuals? Is he supposed to lie? Perhaps he shouldn't have used the word "hate" but I don't see what the big deal is. Also, are you implying that the plight of the homosexual is on par with the plight of black people? Yeah, when I think of Ellen Degeneres, I like to compare her to Rosa Parks. :roll:

Something that interests me is that nobody ever EVER says anything about the other side of the discussion- the rights of the other players who don't approve of homosexuality. These people are targeted as bigots and racists just for their beliefs. Sure, not everyone is going to come out and speak freely like Hardaway, but if a player has a problem with a homo showering next to him, he shouldn't feel like he is wrong for having those feelings. John Amaechi says that coming out as an active player is forbidden but until a player ACTUALLY DOES IT, how can they speculate? Until someone is courageous enough to say "I'M GAY" while being an active player, nobody knows what the consequences will be. Maybe the players will be against homosexuality but still act like respectable teammates. These people talk like if a player came out as being gay, that his teammates would murder him or something. hock:

The issue has nothing to do with being PC or not. It has to with the fact that the guy "hates" people of a sexual orientation that he doesn't agree with. So, why? What have the homosexuals of the world done to Hardaway that make him hate all of them? If you don't agree with a homosexuals lifestyle, that's no reason to hate. And if they guy doesn't hate homosexuals, but disapproves of their lifestyle and didn't articulate his position well, then he's simply an imbecile.

And when or where did I compare Ellen to Rosa Parks. Nice leap. The fact of the matter is that Hardaway's ignorance is no different from the ignorance of racists.

So tiger, you chose to be hetero did you? I'm curious - when did you make that decision?

[Pudge7681]

It's easy for him to come out now. Coming out is the easiest thing to do in the universe. Ever since Ellen came out, people have been coming out left, right,and centre, whether they are actually gay or not. :rambo:

Opiated, no I'm not buddies with Hardaway. I don't have a problem with what he said though. Whether he's right or wrong, at least he was being honest. I DO have a problem with him apologizing for his comments. Everyone knows he meant what he said. There is no need for him to apologize for being honest. There's nothing wrong with stating that you're homophobic. The NBA banning him from the All-Star facilites is more than a little ridiculously humourous. Of course the NBA doesn't believe in homophobia. The NBA has been so pro-active in encouraging athletes to come out of the closet. :roll: Way to save face, Mr. Stern, way to go. You're fooling them all. :rambo:

Alright normally I wouldn't do this and I'm not a person hellbent on causing trouble but the comments here have pushed me to the limit. Ignorance is the number one problem among people today. For instance the ignorant belief that one is entitled to their opinion of hatred toward another group is completely wrong. This isn't my opinion its an accepted truth. If someone went around claiming "I hate ni@@ers" I'm betting that person would be suspended from his or her job and in some cases fired. So congrats to Stern.

Another point...how do you know how easy it is for a gay man to come out. Are you gay? Did you come out? Have you told the hipbase community? You my friend are completely and totally out of line by making these claims. Each situation is different and in this case the man waited because of guys like Hardaway and then guys like you who enable Tim Hardaway. It is my firm belief as an educator that so long as children see that at least one person is okay with ignorant and hateful statements to be said then they themselves can repeat them or believe them.



ps - Why should anyone NEED to come out in the first place? Isn't it enough to be a man or a woman. Also I am not saying that tigerthelion hates gays I am saying that by saying what he has said he enables the hatred.

[Jenna_Bird]

Why should anyone NEED to come out in the first place? Isn't it enough to be a man or a woman?

The need to come out, at least in my personal experience, is often driven by a personal inner acceptance of oneself. When you get to the point where you are finally ok with your sexual orientation, there is sometimes a need to express said feelings. Being closeted is difficult. When you can't express simple aspects of your daily life to family or friends because you aren't out, it takes quite the emotional toll. Now, this isn't to say that everyone needs to publicly out him/herself on a grand scale. I simply think that coming out to friends or family is an important part of self acceptance, and to some degree, a display of trust and courage.

-Jenna

[Pudge7681]

Jenna I totally get that. I was meaning that it shouldn't be an issue anyways. If someone wants to come out 25 years after he/she has told their family then so be it. I completely agree with what you've said.

[The Darkest Canuck]

you can't help who you love/are attracted to...and you can't help your skin colour either...so, you shouldn't be openly persecuted for either...unless you're Michael Jackson, then you should be for both :lol:!

[opiated]

This former NBA player has come out AFTER his playing career as being gay. I personally think Amaechi should be condemned for this action. I don't think he should be condemned for being gay, but he should be condemned for not having the courage to come out as AN ACTIVE PLAYER and for MAKING MONEY FROM IT! Basically, he wrote a book and is profiting from being gay. I didn't know being gay was an accomplishment worthy of financial reward. I think Steve Nash or Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade should come out with a book called, "I AM A HETEROSEXUAL" and they should promote the book and make money off of it. It would only be fair.

This from a guy with Fiona and Norah pics in his signature?

what does that mean, guy with a no talent loser in his signature

[tigerthelion]

I can't say I've been paying too much attention to this nonsense, but didn't Hardaway say he hates homosexuals? But since that's him being "honest", that's OK? Huh? So if someone came out and said they hate Hardaway because he's black, would that be OK because they are being "honest"? Please.

Yes it is ok. If someone said they hate Hardaway because he's black, that's their right and they have the freedom to say it. Political correctness is making it impossible to express opinions these days. You darn well know that the majority of NBA players agree with Hardaway's comments. What makes him the villain? Because he didn't decline comment? What is Hardaway supposed to say, that he loves homosexuals? Is he supposed to lie? Perhaps he shouldn't have used the word "hate" but I don't see what the big deal is. Also, are you implying that the plight of the homosexual is on par with the plight of black people? Yeah, when I think of Ellen Degeneres, I like to compare her to Rosa Parks. :roll:

Something that interests me is that nobody ever EVER says anything about the other side of the discussion- the rights of the other players who don't approve of homosexuality. These people are targeted as bigots and racists just for their beliefs. Sure, not everyone is going to come out and speak freely like Hardaway, but if a player has a problem with a homo showering next to him, he shouldn't feel like he is wrong for having those feelings. John Amaechi says that coming out as an active player is forbidden but until a player ACTUALLY DOES IT, how can they speculate? Until someone is courageous enough to say "I'M GAY" while being an active player, nobody knows what the consequences will be. Maybe the players will be against homosexuality but still act like respectable teammates. These people talk like if a player came out as being gay, that his teammates would murder him or something. hock:

The issue has nothing to do with being PC or not. It has to with the fact that the guy "hates" people of a sexual orientation that he doesn't agree with. So, why? What have the homosexuals of the world done to Hardaway that make him hate all of them? If you don't agree with a homosexuals lifestyle, that's no reason to hate. And if they guy doesn't hate homosexuals, but disapproves of their lifestyle and didn't articulate his position well, then he's simply an imbecile.

And when or where did I compare Ellen to Rosa Parks. Nice leap. The fact of the matter is that Hardaway's ignorance is no different from the ignorance of racists.

So tiger, you chose to be hetero did you? I'm curious - when did you make that decision?

Cferneyh, I'm not gonna debate whether being gay is a choice or not. It could take days. Just because I happen to believe that being gay is a choice, who are you or anyone to question that? I have certain beliefs and one of the beliefs is that people choose that lifestyle. If all homosexuals are born gay, then what do you have to say about all of the citizens who have changed their lifestyle? What about all the men who thought they were gay only to change their lifestyle later in life and marry women? What about all the men who married women and chased skirt during their teen years only to go after other men in their later adult years? I suppose the answer will be that they just didn't know what they were and it revealed itself to them later in life, right? :?

Other than using the word "hate", Hardaway did nothing wrong. It isn't a crime to be opposed to homosexuality. If it is a crime, then who are the intolerant ones, the gays or the heteros?

[Douglas]

God damn I would love to see Norah and Fiona dyke out!

[NMAS]

This former NBA player has come out AFTER his playing career as being gay. I personally think Amaechi should be condemned for this action. I don't think he should be condemned for being gay, but he should be condemned for not having the courage to come out as AN ACTIVE PLAYER and for MAKING MONEY FROM IT! Basically, he wrote a book and is profiting from being gay. I didn't know being gay was an accomplishment worthy of financial reward. I think Steve Nash or Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade should come out with a book called, "I AM A HETEROSEXUAL" and they should promote the book and make money off of it. It would only be fair.

you're and idiot

[tigerthelion]

This former NBA player has come out AFTER his playing career as being gay. I personally think Amaechi should be condemned for this action. I don't think he should be condemned for being gay, but he should be condemned for not having the courage to come out as AN ACTIVE PLAYER and for MAKING MONEY FROM IT! Basically, he wrote a book and is profiting from being gay. I didn't know being gay was an accomplishment worthy of financial reward. I think Steve Nash or Kobe Bryant or Dwayne Wade should come out with a book called, "I AM A HETEROSEXUAL" and they should promote the book and make money off of it. It would only be fair.

you're and idiot

Thanks for your input. However, I don't know what "you're and idiot" means. Who are these characters named "you're" and "idiot" and what do they have to do with anything? :roll:

[cferneyh]

Cferneyh, I'm not gonna debate whether being gay is a choice or not. It could take days. Just because I happen to believe that being gay is a choice, who are you or anyone to question that? I have certain beliefs and one of the beliefs is that people choose that lifestyle.

Hey, all I asked was when did you choose to be hetero? If sexual preference is a choice, when did you make yours?

Other than using the word "hate", Hardaway did nothing wrong. It isn't a crime to be opposed to homosexuality. If it is a crime, then who are the intolerant ones, the gays or the heteros?

I find it interesting that you've changed your tune. First you maintained that it was OK for him to use the word "hate", because that's freedom of speech. But now you seem to have backed off of that stance.

Regardless, my issue isn't with the his use of the word "hate".....it's whether or not he truly does "hate" people simply because he doesn't approve of their lifestyle. If that's the case, it's pathetic.

[skippy the wonder dog]

... I'm not gonna debate whether the earth is flat or not. It could take days. Just because I happen to believe that the earth is flat, who are you or anyone to question that? I have certain beliefs and one of the beliefs is that the earth is flat.

And that seems a good enough reason to ignore this one.

[tigerthelion]

... I'm not gonna debate whether the earth is flat or not. It could take days. Just because I happen to believe that the earth is flat, who are you or anyone to question that? I have certain beliefs and one of the beliefs is that the earth is flat.

And that seems a good enough reason to ignore this one.

Yeah, thanks for the input Skippy. When you have 100% medical proof that being gay isn't a choice, then get back to me. Other than your bias against Christians, you have 0% proof that being gay is not a choice. Believe whatever you want though. It's a free world. Keep your arrogance though. It's quite appealing. hock:

Cferneyh, I posed a legitimate question that you ignored that disputed your claim and you ignored it. BTW, I choose to be hetero when I was old enough to know about sex and decided that I didn't want to lie in a bed with another man because I believe it's a sin. I commit sins every day but I try not to as much as possible.

Hardaway using the word hate was a little too strong but, yeah, it is still his right to say it. People on hipbase probably would hate me if they met me, based on perception. That's their right and God bless them for what they believe. I find it interesting that most of my points are not being rebutted. I've posed questions and nobody has answered them so they might just be legitimate.

.....waits for someone to say that I'm a moron and my questions are not worthy of answers..... :rambo: