Sean Burke scared of a vote - Printable Version
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- go(r)d - 02-06-2005
To hell with the NHL and every other giant bloated professional league.
Ever since the NHL broke down I have gained a total appreciated for the OHL and CHL. Seen some awesome games i might never have if we had major league hockey right now.
I really don't care if the NHL disbands or whatever, I am having too much fun closer to home.
- The Darkest Canuck - 02-06-2005
what's great is that almost everyone in Canada can get to a CHL game, and actually afford to watch some great hockey.
- VioletlightHeron - 02-06-2005
In my opinion, Gary Bettman made unintentional error of judgement when the NHL expanded to markets in the southern US. They made that decision because they looked at population trends, which told them the southwest amd the south were the fastest growing part of the US. They followed the lead of every other major league in the United States and Canada. The NFL expanded to include Jacksonville and Carolina, The NBA expanded to Memphis, Charlotte and New Orleans while the MLB expanded to Arizona and now Washington DC ( i know they are borderline southern, but they will get their fans from the suburbs of virginia so i included them). The NHL made their biggest mistake in not negotiating for a luxury tax or a salary cap early enough to make a difference. Look at the NBA, NFL and their luxury taxes and salary caps. They were able to expand and share some of the wealth with the players. Bottom line is the NHLPA refused to consider any kind of salary cap when they had the luxury of doing so and now they are at the point of giving in or watching the league go bust.
- The Darkest Canuck - 02-06-2005
so shouldn't Gary be held accountable for his misjudgment then? if he was running Xerox, and the company was losing that much money, because of a bad decision he'd made, coupled with his signing a bad deal (on the company's behalf) with the union, he'd be fired like that *snaps fingers*. so why hasn't he been fired yet?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? somebody that actually knows something about hockey, and is respected by the hockey community should be in charge of the NHL don'tyathink? it's too bad Dryden's an MP, i think he'd be great for the job.
- VioletlightHeron - 02-06-2005
No, I don't think Bettman should be fired, if I remember correctly he pushed hard for a salary cap of some sort back when expansion was getting under way and the union stiffed him. Who's to blame for the mess the NHL is in? Everybody shares some responsibility; the owners, the agents, the players all have to shoulder their load of blame. Maybe if some of the more idiotic owners hadn't shelled out 10-20 million dollars contracts for over the hill players then the market for players might have been more sane and manageable. Maybe if the players hadnt rejected a salary cap and a revenue sharing linkage back in 94 we wouldnt be in this mess.
- The Darkest Canuck - 02-06-2005
bottom line: Bettman hasn't been doing a very good job of his job, he should be canned.
- VioletlightHeron - 02-06-2005
to be replaced by some lapdog for the NHLPA, I'm sure :roll:
- The Darkest Canuck - 02-06-2005
i already said that i think Ken Dryden would be an excellent replacement, he's a lawyer, he's respected, he obviously knows and loves the game, what more could you ask for?
- cferneyh - 02-06-2005
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:so shouldn't Gary be held accountable for his misjudgment then? if he was running Xerox, and the company was losing that much money, because of a bad decision he'd made, coupled with his signing a bad deal (on the company's behalf) with the union, he'd be fired like that *snaps fingers*. so why hasn't he been fired yet?!?!?!?!??!?!?!? somebody that actually knows something about hockey, and is respected by the hockey community should be in charge of the NHL don'tyathink? it's too bad Dryden's an MP, i think he'd be great for the job.
Bettman can't control the owners' spending. When the Rag$ decide to pay Bobby Holik $9 mil per, there's nothing Bettman can do about that.
The reason the league needs a salary cap is that the majority of owners need to be protected by the actions of the idiot few. When the Bruins decide to pay Martin Lapointe $5 mil per, it has a trickle down affect on the rest of the league as other third liners say: I should be getting paid what Martin Lapointe gets paid, because my stats are as crappy as his.
Be clear on two things: (1) Bettman didn't decide on expansion - the owners with established teams decided on expansion and told Bettman to find people willing to pay expansion fees. (2) It is extremely rare for an owner to sell a team at a loss. They make a lot more money flipping their franchise than they do running it. In other words, A LOT of recent owners have made A LOT of money because of Bettman (on the sale of their franchises). That's why he hasn't been fired and won't be fired anytime soon. The owners recognize that the losses they are suffering now are due to a select few owners screwing up the salary structure by offering bloated contracts to players who don't deserve them. The owners aren't going to fire Bettman because Glen Sather spends money like a fat kid in a candy store, but they are going to tell Bettman to get a salary cap so that Sather wises up.
Dryden as commish? Fat chance. He couldn't even survive the politics of the Leafs. He's a great figurehead, but I don't think he'd be cut out for dealing with the egos of 30 owners.
- VioletlightHeron - 02-06-2005
There is that, with regards to the value of sports franchises, but there also is the ability of owners to write off a portion of their losses on their taxes. Excellent point about the idiocy of a few owners; the cap has worked wonders for the NFL in reining in idiot owners and general managers from overspending for marginal talent. Plus their pension system is on more solid ground than the NHLPA one, due to revenue sharing and smart management.
- go(r)d - 02-06-2005
cferneyh Wrote:Bettman can't control the owners' spending. When the Rag$ decide to pay Bobby Holik $9 mil per, there's nothing Bettman can do about that.That's something more PA supporters need to remember. It's way too easy to blame Bettmann, they all think he's just looking out for the owners best interests at the expense of the players but in the past a select few owners have been foolish with their money to the PROFIT of the players and that's created the whole problem.
The NHL represents everything that's wrong with sports ina big-money, big-buisness world. The OHL and CHL are where it's at for me now. I save a lot of money and I have met some awesome people in the stands. The players need to realize every single day that passes means one more person like me will find their entertainment elsewhere. I can't imagine paying a hundred bucks for Leafs tickets now. And it'll be even worse in the US.
- j-monster - 02-06-2005
emperor penguin Wrote:Gary Bettman is a complete f***ing asshole who has completely ruined the NHL. He pulled a team out of Winnipeg and moved it to Pheonix where nobody knows a thing about hockey. Introduced teams to Carolina, 2 teams to Florida (where some of the people in the town didn't even know their team had even won the Stanley Cup) and completely alienated most of Canada, the country where the NHL began, by signing a shitty TV deal with ABC which if there was a season this year would have seen Sturday afternoon matinee games in place of prime time games. He does everything he can to make the game more popular in the southern U.S. where nobody gives a shit about hockey and never will. In game 6 of last years finals, Calgary scored a goal in the last few minutes of the third period that would have put them ahead and won the Stanley Cup for them, but the play continued and nobody reviewed it because god forbid a Canadian team could win the Stanley Cup, it might piss off the 2 casual hockey fans in Tampa Bay. And in game 7 when Calgary was coming on strong in the last few minutes they got one of the biggest bullshit penalties I have ever seen in my life watching hockey, to squash all their momentum. I'm glad there's no season this year because I wouldn't watch the NHL anyway. I'm not gonna watch it until Gary Betman gets replaced. I'm not sayin the players are right with the lockout issue, personally I think they're being a bunch of greedy assholes, and I've completely lost all respect for Martin Brodeur, but when I look at the two evils Gary Betman will always be the lowest. I hate that guy and I will never agree or side with anything he believes in. The NHL has gone right down the shitter since the early 90's when he became commisioner. The talent level is so watered down and clutching and grabbing is almost completely taking all of the skill out of the game. You no longer have to be fast or skilled to be drafted, you just have to be big and able to grab on to someone.
Can't agree with you on most of your points. Bettman didn't have a thing to do with Winnipeg and Quebec losing their teams... the owners of those teams couldn't hack it, and no local ownership groups were available, so they had to sell the teams to somebody, the only people available were owners in other cities who wanted to move the teams. That was just at the stage that salaries started to spiral out of control, plus the Canadian dollar was crap compared to the US dollar, so they were getting hit hard there. If the owners had taken a more hard-line stance then maybe there would be a cap now which the league desperately needs.
As for your other points, Bettman has nothing to do with what the on-ice officials decide on games... I hardly think he instructed the referees to bend the rules all they could to ensure Tampa Bay won, I mean give me a break. :roll: The on-ice officials are only human, and it is up to each of them and Colin Campbell who is in charge of them to work together and do the best job they can. Clearly they can do better... if they called things more tightly consistently then the clutching and grabbing should go away and the skill would shine... and believe me, the players of today are very skilled, more than some people think. If they do that, and bring in some of the rule changes they've used in the CHL and AHL, then the game would be a much better product.
I'm not saying Bettman is perfect... clearly he hasn't done enough in the past to reign in rogue owners... but he is doing exactly what the owners want so he won't be going anytime soon. Anyway I have a lot more respect for him than for Goodenow, who is steering his players down the path of their financial destruction... I mean if he and the NHLPA weren't so stubborn they'd be trying to negotiate a cap or luxury tax system that would be as beneficial for the players as possible, instead they are fighting a battle that they clearly can't win and have lost tons of respect from the fans in the process.
- j-monster - 02-06-2005
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:btw, the average NFL career is only 4 years, their average salary is lower than any other league, and they run the highest risk of being seriously injured, sounds like a great system to play under eh? all we hear is selfish players vs. selfish owners, but i'm starting to see a disturbing pattern of selfish fans who don't care at all about the players that play the game they claim to love so much, or about the long term well being of the game
The NFL also has non-guaranteed contracts with players and can cut or waive anyone at a moment's notice... and not ONCE have I EVER heard Bettman or anyone at the NHL propose that as an option. Sean Burke is incredibly naive or stupid if he thinks the NHL is proposing to copy the NFL model completely. Some kind of cap or tax system is necessary, and every other league has one, so why are the NHL players too good to have one, especially when the economics of their league are swirling down the toilet bowl?
Your point about NFL players having the greatest risk of injury is debatable... hockey players' risk is pretty high, too... but it is really high all the same so I won't belabour that any further. But I REALLY have a problem with you saying selfish fans are a problem. Like, what??? The fact that we fans PAY the salaries of the players and help FILL the pockets of the owners, does that not mean we deserve some say in this? We're not saying we want the players to play in unnaturally dangerous conditions, we want both sides to come together and agree to a deal that is reasonable and works for both sides so they can get back to playing hockey and ensure that the game is healthier now and in the future. What's so selfish about that??? Give me a break!!! :roll: :roll:
- direwolf74 - 02-06-2005
j-monster Wrote:The Darkest Canuck Wrote:btw, the average NFL career is only 4 years, their average salary is lower than any other league, and they run the highest risk of being seriously injured, sounds like a great system to play under eh? all we hear is selfish players vs. selfish owners, but i'm starting to see a disturbing pattern of selfish fans who don't care at all about the players that play the game they claim to love so much, or about the long term well being of the game
The NFL also has non-guaranteed contracts with players and can cut or waive anyone at a moment's notice... and not ONCE have I EVER heard Bettman or anyone at the NHL propose that as an option. Sean Burke is incredibly naive or stupid if he thinks the NHL is proposing to copy the NFL model completely. Some kind of cap or tax system is necessary, and every other league has one, so why are the NHL players too good to have one, especially when the economics of their league are swirling down the toilet bowl?
Your point about NFL players having the greatest risk of injury is debatable... hockey players' risk is pretty high, too... but it is really high all the same so I won't belabour that any further. But I REALLY have a problem with you saying selfish fans are a problem. Like, what??? The fact that we fans PAY the salaries of the players and help FILL the pockets of the owners, does that not mean we deserve some say in this? We're not saying we want the players to play in unnaturally dangerous conditions, we want both sides to come together and agree to a deal that is reasonable and works for both sides so they can get back to playing hockey and ensure that the game is healthier now and in the future. What's so selfish about that??? Give me a break!!! :roll: :roll:
Well said, j-monster. I couldn't agree more.
:thumb:
- tigerthelion - 02-06-2005
Firstly, Dryden would be a crappy commish. He wants to get fighting out of hockey for cripes sake!!! That would really get the players' respect now wouldn't it????
Secondly, when Ted Lindsay and his pals began getting a union together they wanted to get treated fairly. They were in the NHL but were still poor. Today the players aren't fighting for fair treatment, they are fighting for higher salaries to pad their bank accounts. They are already overpaid but want more. It goes against the very ideals that the union was formed upon. The same can be said for most unions in the world today. Unions are becoming ridiculous in demanding demanding demanding when working conditions are already more than fair.