keithtalent Wrote:What seemed obvious to most people before the start of the season was that the Leafs had too many old bodies that wouldn't hold up for an entire NHL season. And unless something miraculous happens between now and April it looks like the so-called experts knew more than Leafs management did. "What if" speculations aren't going to change the fact that a major overhaul is needed. The standings from January are irrelevant.
And the problems go way beyond Belfour...
Old bodies eh? As I pointed out to opiated in an earlier discussion the Leafs are hardly "old". In fact, they are only
slightly older than the Canucks, yet I don't hear too many people calling the Canucks old. But I wouldn't want perception to get in the way of reality.
The problems may well go well beyond Belfour, but he is the key. He's been among the worst four starting goaltenders in the league this season and since the Leafs aren't exactly deep at D, they need a better than average goalie, not worse than average.
Hell, you'd think a Sens fan would understand the importance of goaltending.
Speaking of the Leafs...I am heading out to the game tonight downtown Buffalo! Patty LaLa jersey and all. Should be a cool retirement ceremony. Go Sabres!
cferneyh Wrote:robert goulet Wrote:I have heard from a VERY good source that our Leafs have a serious problem with partying waaaaaaay too much...playing fully hungover is not an uncommon occurance with the Buds.
Well that would certainly explain Belfour's "performance" this season. :x
Belfour's probably been a drunk long before this season though and he's been a great goalie prior the this year.
The Leafs may not be old but they play old. They can't skate. That's why so many people assume they have the oldest team. Most casual fans probably think Lindros is 40. In hockey terms, the Leafs have old players. In other words, Lindros has more wear and tear on him than most 36 year old hockey players. How old is Jeff O'neil? i think he's only 29 or something. He plays like a 38 year old.
tigerthelion Wrote:In hockey terms, the Leafs have old players.
That's a gem. As opposed to other NHL teams who have old players in terms of what sport? Baseball? Football?
"
In hockey terms......".
Classic. :roll:
The reason people think the Leafs are old is because
historically they have been old.
the leafs look so painfully slow
And in the last 10 years i think the leafs have won twice in buffalo.
But still all us leaf fans drive across the border to suffer.
I think when people talk about this year's Leafs, they mistake the words "old" and "slow". As cfern has pointed out repeatedly, the Leafs are not really an old team.
But are they a slow team? Oh hell yes they are.
The Leafs' forwards as a collective unit are big, so you'd think they'd try to play to their strengths (i.e. play a physical game, cycle the puck down low more often to create scoring chances or draw penalties based on enforcement of rules in the "new NHL"). But most of the forwards don't play that type of game consistently. Not only that, but many of the forwards are also severely lacking in foot speed (i.e. Lindros, O'Neill, Allison, Antropov, Domi), so they can't keep up with teams who have good team speed, and as a result they take more than their fair share of penalties and give up more than their fair share of scoring chances.
Combine that with a team-wide penchant for turnovers, a defence corps made up of players who, aside from McCabe and Kaberle, are either too young and inexperienced (Wozniewski, Kronwall, Colaiacovo), or who, quite frankly, suck (Berg, Klee, Khavanov), and a starting goalie hampered by the giant salad fork sticking out of his back (Belfour), and it's no real surprise the Leafs are in the mess they are in. And it's also no surprise that the Leafs are losing in Buffalo for the 10 millionth time. :x :rambo:
If Fergie can find clubs willing to take Belfour and other stiffs like Domi and Antropov off his hands then he should try and take advantage of it before the trade deadline. Otherwise, other than a handful of players (Sundin, McCabe and Kaberle, the young kids), methinks it's time to blow it up in the offseason and start over.
cferneyh Wrote:tigerthelion Wrote:In hockey terms, the Leafs have old players.
That's a gem. As opposed to other NHL teams who have old players in terms of what sport? Baseball? Football?
"In hockey terms......".
Classic. :roll:
The reason people think the Leafs are old is because historically they have been old.
Ok, what I meant to say is the Leafs have players who play like old men. Wrong choice of words but you're just being you, it's all good. :roll:
Khavanov is 30 years old and is slower than a 45 year old, O'neill is 30 years old and he looks slower than my 70 year old aunt on the ice, Kilger is 29 years old but you'd swear he was older than Trevor Linden.
Sure the Leafs have historically been old but this season they have young guys like Stajan, Ponikarovsky, and Steen and still overall as a team they look like grandfathers out there.
Ask a casual hockey fan how old they think Allison is? O'neill? They sure as hell aren't going to say 30.
Any predictions on tonight's Leafs/Sens game?
I'm thinking 6-1 Sens. Man, it's been a long time since I've felt this way about the Leafs in early March.
cferneyh Wrote:Old bodies eh? As I pointed out to opiated in an earlier discussion the Leafs are hardly "old". In fact, they are only slightly older than the Canucks, yet I don't hear too many people calling the Canucks old. But I wouldn't want perception to get in the way of reality.
The problems may well go well beyond Belfour, but he is the key. He's been among the worst four starting goaltenders in the league this season and since the Leafs aren't exactly deep at D, they need a better than average goalie, not worse than average.
Hell, you'd think a Sens fan would understand the importance of goaltending.
So the Leafs are hardly "old"? Do you know anything about statistics? You can't compare the Leafs to
one other team in the league and then say that they're not old.
Based on opening day rosters, San Jose had the youngest team at 26.6 years and Detroit was the oldest at 30.2 years. The average age of Toronto players was 30.0, which puts them at the top end of the scale (by comparison, the average age of Ottawa players was 26.7, second youngest team in the league). Feel free to keep attacking people who claim Toronto is an old team by NHL standards, but you look pretty foolish when the evidence is against you. Or do you just rely on the truthiness standard?
And I never said goaltending wasn't importance, I guess you need to put words in my mouth. What I said was that the problem is more than Belfour. Give the Leafs had a good goaltender and they're still nowhere near being a Cup contender.
NORTHEAST GP W L OT PTS
OTTAWA 59 40 14 5 85
BUFFALO 59 38 16 5 81
MONTREAL 59 29 22 8 67
BOSTON 61 25 26 10 60
TORONTO 60 27 28 5 59
Ya gotta love seeing the leafs 22 points behind the Sabres.
NMAS Wrote:I predict that Quinn will be fired within 5 games of coming back from the Oylmics, we will see if it happens.
I was hoping someone else would say something about Quinn.
At first I thought the same as you, but honestly, I think he's done after the season. Or whatever kind of cup run they have. I mean, the guy can't bring his team out of this slump. The only reason he hasn't been fired yet is because he was the olympic team coach.
Pat Quinn is terrible. Don Cherry coaches the team anyways
Get Pat Quinn on Coach's Corner and put Grapes behind the bench
keithtalent Wrote:So the Leafs are hardly "old"? Do you know anything about statistics? You can't compare the Leafs to one other team in the league and then say that they're not old.
Based on opening day rosters, San Jose had the youngest team at 26.6 years and Detroit was the oldest at 30.2 years. The average age of Toronto players was 30.0, which puts them at the top end of the scale (by comparison, the average age of Ottawa players was 26.7, second youngest team in the league). Feel free to keep attacking people who claim Toronto is an old team by NHL standards, but you look pretty foolish when the evidence is against you. Or do you just rely on the truthiness standard?
And I never said goaltending wasn't importance, I guess you need to put words in my mouth. What I said was that the problem is more than Belfour. Give the Leafs had a good goaltender and they're still nowhere near being a Cup contender.
Well, I actually
work in statistics so you are barking up the wrong tree.
Hey, do my a favour and copy
today's rosters into an Excel spreadsheet and do some math. Why? Because here's what you'll find (I chose four of the top six teams - Carolina, Philly, the Rangers, and Jersey. I can acknowledge that the Sabres and Sens are young, so I didn't bother including them). Here's what we get:
Leaf's average age: 29.8
Carolina: 30.1
Rangers: 28.8
Flyers: 29.6
Jersey: 29.7
Wow! So that means the Leafs are actually slightly
younger than Carolina (who are only
1st in the East), they are a whole
3.8% older than the Rangers (who are in 3rd in the East), and they are for all intents and purposes the same age as the Flyers and Jersey.
And do you want me to blow your mind? If you take Belfour and Tellqvist out of the mix, then the average age of the Leafs'
skaters is 29.4. Do the same to those other teams (take out their 'tenders) and here's what you get:
Carolina: 30.5
Rangers: 28.9
Flyers: 29.8
Jersey: 29.5
So when considering only skaters, the difference between the Leafs and the Rangers drops to 1.7%, and the Leafs get slightly younger than the Flyers and Jersey, while Carolina remains the oldest.
Yeah, the Leafs are sooooooooooooo much older than the rest of the league. :roll: That must be what the problem is, given that four of the top six teams in the East are just as old.
But again, I don't want your perception to get in the way of reality. You can believe whatever the hell you want, but in this case, you are wrong.
Better luck next time sport.
once again, his assholeness is shining through...
opiated Wrote:once again, his assholeness is shining through...
Thank you! Thank you very much!
<<takes a bow>>
cferneyh Wrote:opiated Wrote:once again, his assholeness is shining through...
Thank you! Thank you very much!
<<takes a bow>>
yeah..we were getting along way to well there for awhile!!! LINDEN RULES!!!!!! :wink: