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So the Conservatives announced another commitment to tax cuts - this time for small business.

This announcement is even being picked up by American media: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=arfodQWUbmKM&refer=canada">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... fer=canada</a><!-- m -->

It seems to me that they are offering quite a lot of tax cuts, but I haven't heard anything in the way of program cuts. Fill me in if there have been - I've been out of the campaign loop for the past couple of days due to my brutal exam schedule

If there haven't, any idea what the targets may be? Will there be any? Or do you think they'll just eat into the surplus?
blesser Wrote:So the Conservatives announced another commitment to tax cuts - this time for small business.

This announcement is even being picked up by American media: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=arfodQWUbmKM&refer=canada">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... fer=canada</a><!-- m -->

It seems to me that they are offering quite a lot of tax cuts, but I haven't heard anything in the way of program cuts. Fill me in if there have been - I've been out of the campaign loop for the past couple of days due to my brutal exam schedule

If there haven't, any idea what the targets may be? Will there be any? Or do you think they'll just eat into the surplus?

Exactly. The last economic update announcement made by Ralph Goodale, the finance minister, earlier this month, shows the Liberals projecting huge surpluses for the next 6 fiscal years. I would think that these announced Conservative tax cuts could be made, and there would still be comfortably enough tax revenues collected by the government such that cuts to programs would be unnecessary.

Check it out... http://www.fin.gc.ca/news05/05-077e.html
I'm not buying that one, j-monster. Especially as the Conservatives want to put all kinds of money into defence spending, and given Harper's politics.

Program cuts are coming.

But to the question, of course they won't tell you what they're going to cut. They're hoping to get elected, and they've already alienated the stoner vote.
Yeah, theres something definitely wrong with the Conservatives proposals. It seems for every dollar the Liberals propose, the Conservatives want to spend a dollar and a dime. On top of that, lowering the GST to 6% immediately (thats of course, under the generous assumption they win a majority or the bill passes, which they, and it, won't) will take nearly $5 billion out of Federal Revenue; a fairly large chunk of change.

Tack on to that earlier Harper proposals to boost the armed forces by billions and billions of dollars beyond what the Liberals propose (which is already billions and billions of dollars), you should come to the conclusion that there is going to be trouble down at the station... unless of course you believe Harpers divine plan to restructure parliament will save the Federal Government something like $20 billion dollars...

...Because thats what the Liberals have been withholding from Canadians and have been spending on themselves. A Conservative government, of course, would find this extra cash hidden in Paul Martin's sock drawer and gleefully offer it to Canadians. Stupid? Yes... but as far as I can tell it's more tangent than any financial work brought to light by the Conservatives.

I suppose if he wants to fire 40% of the civil servants who voted Liberal (because every Liberal is corrupt), he can cut salary costs, but realistically, I suspect that his $1200/child baby bonus (and thats what it is) is full of contingents and limitations, I think the poverty stricken will suffer more, as will minorities, and health care is going to get a Conservative flag-pole up its ass with no medi-care to solve the issue.

Either that or he's just full of shit...
WHAT?!? I can't believe that when I checked out Hipbase this morning there was no discussion on Martin's claim to ban all handguns.

While I'm largely apolitical with conservative leanings (wait, does that mean I'm not apolitical?!?), I have to say that this might actually convince me to vote Liberal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - if someone really wanted a gun they could still get one, but if it makes it even slightly more difficult for some moron to get his hands on a gun, then I'm all for it.
cferneyh Wrote:WHAT?!? I can't believe that when I checked out Hipbase this morning there was no discussion on Martin's claim to ban all handguns.

While I'm largely apolitical with conservative leanings (wait, does that mean I'm not apolitical?!?), I have to say that this might actually convince me to vote Liberal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - if someone really wanted a gun they could still get one, but if it makes it even slightly more difficult for some moron to get his hands on a gun, then I'm all for it.

err, right. and that billion dollars spent on the firearms registry really made Canada safer, what with those four Mounties killed by a guy who wasn't supposed to be able to get one. Sorry, I think this is Martin's pathetic attempt to distract the voters from the sorry crime safety record of the past two Liberal governments.
VioletlightHeron Wrote:
cferneyh Wrote:WHAT?!? I can't believe that when I checked out Hipbase this morning there was no discussion on Martin's claim to ban all handguns.

While I'm largely apolitical with conservative leanings (wait, does that mean I'm not apolitical?!?), I have to say that this might actually convince me to vote Liberal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - if someone really wanted a gun they could still get one, but if it makes it even slightly more difficult for some moron to get his hands on a gun, then I'm all for it.

err, right. and that billion dollars spent on the firearms registry really made Canada safer, what with those four Mounties killed by a guy who wasn't supposed to be able to get one. Sorry, I think this is Martin's pathetic attempt to distract the voters from the sorry crime safety record of the past two Liberal governments.

Well, first of all I think a gun registry is slightly different from banning guns altogether.

Second of all, as I said in my original post, if it makes it even slightly more difficult for some moron to get his hands on a gun, then I'm all for it.
I hail from a hunting region of the country. Most of the people who bitched about registering will be thrilled with the ban. In their eyes, this is targeting the problem gun users and leaving the law abiding ones alone.

I think it's an attempt to get gun-weary Toronto behind the Liberals 100%.

Whatever - I've never had a gun and I've never wanted one so it's all the same to me. It's nice to think that this might just limit my chances of getting shot...

My only question about it is - will we have to lose this emoticon? :rambo:
Sam Wrote:I hail from a hunting region of the country. Most of the people who bitched about registering will be thrilled with the ban. In their eyes, this is targeting the problem gun users and leaving the law abiding ones alone.

Don't think so. I know a lot of hunters, and they're going to be pissed even though they don't own handguns.

Reason being, the ban will take guns away from law-abiding gun owners, and make things yet more difficult for the target shooters who are allowed to keep their guns, all without making an appreciable dent on the problem it's supposed to address. The guns on the streets of Toronto aren't registered handguns, and tough storage regulations have already cut deeply into the supply of stolen weapons. Banning handguns in Canada is not going to take them off the streets.

So hunters and target shooters will see this as yet another case of scapegoating law-abiding gun owners. The gun owners get kicked around, in their eyes, because Paul Martin wants a splashy gesture to add to his law and order package.

Furthermore, many will point to this as a reason they distrust the registry. Pistols have been registered in this country for many years, and now the registration info is going to be used to confiscate the weapons from their owners. This is exactly what many gun owners fear will happen to shotguns and rifles under the new gun registry -- more and more waves of gun control, with the registry facilitating confiscation.

I've received a press release from the OFAH, which is the country's largest hunting lobby group:
"'...the ban reconfirms longstanding concerns by legal firearms owners that the government is intent on confiscating all guns, and many will see this ban as the first step down that road. Despite the fact that the Commissioner of Firearms has suggested that fears of confiscation are unfounded, clearly they are not,' noted [OFAH Executive Director Mike] Reader. "

A lot of gun owners in this country are still pissed off about Bill C-68, which introduced the registry. Martin knows they ain't voting his way anyway.

The proposal itself is very good politics but poor policy, as banning handguns will be ineffective as long as we're next door to the United States.

Why good politics? Note that the NRA has stuck its nose in our election, and on the same day that Martin makes this announcement, we see Brian Tobin turning that into a news story. See what's going on? Martin is exploiting prejudices against gun ownership to sex up his law-and-order package while at the same time trying to back Harper into a corner and make it look like he's a tool of America's biggest gun lobby.

And let's not ignore the cynical timing of the announcement, either: two days after the anniversary of the Montréal massacre, with a teaser going out to the press the day before. Martin is too smart to mention it, because he'd be accused of politicizing the event, but he knows it's on everyone's minds.

Dec 6: Victims' families call for stricter gun control
Dec 7: Martin to announce ban on handguns
Dec 8: Martin vows to ban handguns

Anyone think that's an accident?
No, Im not and although the government is proposing compensation for handguns confisticated; I don't think they will do so once the election is over, if they get elected. This is the same government that used surpluses from the federal pension plan to pay down the national debt and also refused to pay interest for disabled veterans pensions, though to be fair, the Authorson debacle was started by Mulroney and carried forward by Chretien.
skippy the wonder dog Wrote:...an excellent post

This is the first thing I've agreed with you on in this thread 100%. Though I'd go further to say that it would be ineffective even if the U.S. was not our neighbour.

Well said.
skippy the wonder dog Wrote:
Sam Wrote:I hail from a hunting region of the country. Most of the people who bitched about registering will be thrilled with the ban. In their eyes, this is targeting the problem gun users and leaving the law abiding ones alone.

Don't think so. I know a lot of hunters, and they're going to be pissed even though they don't own handguns.

That just goes to show how completely out of touch I am with the gun-owning public. When I suggested the same opinion to a co-worker who is a hunter/gun owner she illuminated me on her position. Man. I thought I would never get out of the coffee lounge.


It seems that I'm one of the few people who is oddly ambivelent on this issue. Maybe it's because I'm not from a gun owning family. My brother has hunting rifles, but the closest I've come to a handgun was cleaning and restoring 200 yr old dueling pistols at a museum once. I really can't understand why anyone would want to own a handgun. What purpose do they serve?

On the other hand, gun homicide rates are down (Toronto's summer of lead notwithstanding) so I don't understand the sudden urgency of the topic. Well, other than to secure votes in Toronto, I guess.
Sam Wrote:I really can't understand why anyone would want to own a handgun. What purpose do they serve?

Well, I don't own any guns and I haven't fired on in years, but....

Shooting is fun, because you get to make loud noises and be gratified when you see the effect you are having. Kind of like playing in a rock band.... (Someone is going to pick that one up and accuse me of promoting murder, I just know it....)

and....

Shooting is a challenging sport. Heck, it's an Olympic event.

That covers the target shooters. As for the collectors, well, do you know any librarians? Gun collectors are weapon librarians; it's about preserving the past.
Shooting a handgun is not a sport. From what I read the ban would be on handguns, not rifles.
skippy the wonder dog Wrote:That covers the target shooters. As for the collectors, well, do you know any librarians? Gun collectors are weapon librarians; it's about preserving the past.

Confusedcratch: So, it's like collecting stamps that can kill people? Interesting.

Call me a flaming liberal, but I'll stick to collecting books and music, thanks.
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