He basically admitted to using steroids today. His name has really been tarnished today and deservidely so. I know this will never happen but, in my opinion all records set by players who have been found to have taken steroids at some point should be wiped from the record books. Barry Bonds will inevitabely become the all-time homeruns leader and to me that is a shame. Ben Johnson's 9.79 and gold medal were taken from him in the 89 Olympics, why shouldn't this happen to MLB players who have unfairly set records.
How did he admit to ever using steroids? He refused to say whether he did or not or name others who used steroids and he's got a pretty good point in pointing out that no matter what a player denies, they will be disbelieved and scorned. This House Committee hearing is nothing more than lawmakers seeking to demonstrate that they are relevant and "caring".
Well, VLH,
you just said he used steroids:
"He refused to ... name others who used steroids...."
Which clearly implies that he used them. You can't have "others who used them" unless he did, right? I shoulda been a libel lawyer....
So I guess you and he are right on the whole "disbelieved and scorned" thing, eh?
Ugh, it doesn't surprise me. I was one of his biggest fans when he was going for the record. I saw him after he broke the record in Montreal. I saw him from about five feet away and let me tell ya, the boy was HUGE! He also seemed like an asshole. I have a friend who worked for the Padres and met him once, she said he was an asshole.
thipfan73 Wrote:Ugh, it doesn't surprise me. I was one of his biggest fans when he was going for the record. I saw him after he broke the record in Montreal. I saw him from about five feet away and let me tell ya, the boy was HUGE! He also seemed like an asshole. I have a friend who worked for the Padres and met him once, she said he was an asshole.
I also met him in Montreal. The cards were in town and I was there to see DMB. We stayed at the hotel that all the visiting teams stayed at. Bob Eucher is a prick too, he was there the previous night with the Brewers.
hehe, I should have said "or name others who are alleged to use steroids". He might have used steroids, the truth of the matter is we will probably never find out definitively if he or others did unless they choose to confess that they did. Who knows, maybe they'll pull a Jose Canseco and tell all when they need the money. My main point was that these hearings are nothing but a farce put on by Congress to mug for the cameras and posture. For cripes sake, this is the Government Reform Committee that is holding the hearings, why the bleep don't they do some actual hearings on government waste?? :roll:
VioletlightHeron Wrote:hehe, I should have said "or name others who are alleged to use steroids". He might have used steroids, the truth of the matter is we will probably never find out definitively if he or others did unless they choose to confess that they did. Who knows, maybe they'll pull a Jose Canseco and tell all when they need the money. My main point was that these hearings are nothing but a farce put on by Congress to mug for the cameras and posture. For cripes sake, this is the Government Reform Committee that is holding the hearings, why the bleep don't they do some actual hearings on government waste?? :roll:
I don't see the harm in the hearings. While steroids aren't exactly cocaine, they do cause a lot of damage to the teenagers who use them. The more the dangers get brought into the public eye, the better.
As for McGwire, if he
didn't use them, why not say he
didn't use them? His statement of "
if a player says no, he will not be believed" is HILARIOUS, and tells you all you need to know.
and then for McGwire to act all sad when he hears about the parents who lost children to steroid use, that was probably the first time he heard of it. I'm not saying he shouldn't have acted that way but where was he 4 or 5 years ago, he didn't seem to care a whole lot about the issue when you couldn't get caught for steroids and he was breaking Roger Maris' record.
The problem is MLB's approach to testing for steroids and punishing those caught taking them was belated, and even now is the worst of all professional sports. You don't see Congress sending subpoenas to current and former NFL players, because the NFL's punishments have some teeth to them. Unfortunately I don't know that they'll ever remove the problem of steroids altogether, because there will always be those willing to take shortcuts to get to where they want to go. Still, at least the NFL try. Do you have any confidence in Bud Selig to have the guts to take a real stand against steroids? Please...
j-monster Wrote:The problem is MLB's approach to testing for steroids and punishing those caught taking them was belated, and even now is the worst of all professional sports. You don't see Congress sending subpoenas to current and former NFL players, because the NFL's punishments have some teeth to them. Unfortunately I don't know that they'll ever remove the problem of steroids altogether, because there will always be those willing to take shortcuts to get to where they want to go. Still, at least the NFL try. Do you have any confidence in Bud Selig to have the guts to take a real stand against steroids? Please...
Bud's only half of the problem. Don't forget that the player's union has fought steroid testing tooth and nail. Because you know, players unions look out for what is best for the players. :roll:
If you go to the ball park and suck down some suds, all you wanna see is some guy jack one out of the park and break a record.
Thank god they only have bats and balls, it they had sticks and pucks more of the fans would die.
I hope you all can read this with an open mind, because my opinion is an educated one.
Steroids have never killed anyone. Period. Now before some of you start yelling about Alzado, or liver tumors let me tell you something....I have been in the sport of bodybuilding for 15 years and I have seen a LOT of drug use in the gyms and by athletes from all walks of life and competing in all sports. From the Olympics (yes, they easily passed their "tests") down to local ball teams. Not a single person has died or even had a serious medical emergency from steroid use. And I'm talking about thousands of people that I have known personally. Do they have side effects? Yes. Can they be managed if used properly? Yes.
If you want to put a mark beside Bonds' name, then you will have to put one beside every single guy who played jacked on cocaine all through the 80's, every pitcher who threw ONE spitball, or slugger who used a corked bat. If you want to decimate the hall of fame, you'll have to be fair about it. All or none. Babe Ruth was an alcoholic womanizer. Hall of Fame?? How about the fact that nicotine is a stimulant, so every guy who had too much snuff under his lip MAY have had a edge in the reflex department. All or none.
It amazes me that people are buying into these stories of the kids killing themselves because of the juice. There is not one single drug ever invented that someone hasn't killed themselves while using. Period. That's simply not evidence. I can't believe that the US gov't has wasted this time and money, all in the name of "the children". Gimme a break. If it's about the kids, then what about all the kids with no health plans, or the very existence of big tabacco? C'mon people wake up. What about the meth epidemic? Save the kids from that.
Baseball is a tool to sell beer and cars. Drunk driving kills more people in a day than steriods ever have. There are MUCH bigger problems here.
Canseco (sp?) is a piece of shit. I don't believe any of his stories about injecting other team mates etc. These stories are just so silly. That's not how things work.
As far as Big Mac is concerned. Well I thought he was the only one who didn't get totally pussified in front of congress. I respect his taking the fifth, and hope all the other guys who lied under oath do as well. This is none of their business. Baseball has to deal with this.
I also believe that the general public, and that means most of you guys and gals respectfully, know less than 1% of what there is to know about steroids. Over the years, I have seen a dramatic rise in steroid use by people who aren't even competitive. Just guys (and girls) who want to "get in shape" etc. As a hardcore competitive bodybuilder, I can say that it is a huge dissapointment when a young guy comes up to me and starts asking drug questions. Fuck. What ever happened to learning as much as possible about training and nutrition first????? Drugs are much less a part of the equation than the media makes it out to be. All the champs I know are first and foremost genetic freaks who are ultra hard working. In the end a lot of them wind up taking less drugs than their counterparts. That's just how I see it.
Think of this. If you found out that Hillary Swank used some illegal fat burners, like clenbuterol, and maybe a small doses of anavar (a very mild anabolic steroid) to add the muscle and get lean for her role in Million Dollar Baby (she added 20 pounds of lean mass), would you tell her to give her Oscar back?? Her body helped sell her performance and made the role seem more realistic, correct? Now some of you are probably thinking that girls that size don't take steroids. You need to see a National or Pro level Fitness competition, the drug use is rampant. I'm not saying she did, but it is very common for stars to do what they gotta do to look the way they have to for movies.
Drug use had a role when Arnie The Governator won the Mr. Olympia 7 times, and went on to make movies as an action hero the way he did, therefore becoming the man he is today. Bodybuilding, and at his level - drug use, was a factor in the creation of a living icon.
We live in a performance enhanced society. Fast food, drive through banks, plastic surgery, and instant messages. Drug use is a result of our need for constant progression beyond what is normally possible. That is just a fact, and if you think it is just the guys you hear about you are so unbelievably wrong. We are encouraged to use drugs for every ailment, problem, special occasion, or tiny annoyance in our lives. Is this actually a surprise?
Of course steroids should never be used by kids. That is really disturbing. Some side effects, like closing of the growth plates in bones, only happen in people who aren't done growing yet. Plus kids shouldn't mess with their hormones, period.
I added a hundred pounds to my bodyweight from the time I started training at 14 to the time I was 18 drug free because that is the best possible time for teenagers to put size on. All their hormones are already jacked and the body soaks up food like a sponge. Preventing kids from using gear (the proper nickname for steroids), starts with being honest. Have we learned nothing from all the propaganda they fed people about pot, and other drugs. Scare tactics don't work, they only lead to distrust between kids and educators.
Before I go, I have to say something. Alzado died of a brain tumor. Maybe smashing his head against 300 pound offensive linemen for 13 years had something to do with it?????
Also, I remember a while back wrestlers were dropping like flies. Davie Boy, Luger, etc. Some of their deaths were blamed on steroids, which is kinda silly when it is common knowledge in certain circles about the massive amount of rec drug (coke etc), painkillers, anti inflamitories, and alcohol used by tons of those guys all through their careers. Now that is a rough business, one that Bautista currently rules........now I don't hear parents crying over the way he looks and he's fucking jacked!
In 10-15 years this issue will be on the way out, as genetic therapy and engineering will become the new road to gold medals anyway.
Peace and respect, 8)
Ronny
emperor penguin Wrote:He basically admitted to using steroids today. His name has really been tarnished today and deservidely so. I know this will never happen but, in my opinion all records set by players who have been found to have taken steroids at some point should be wiped from the record books. Barry Bonds will inevitabely become the all-time homeruns leader and to me that is a shame. Ben Johnson's 9.79 and gold medal were taken from him in the 89 Olympics, why shouldn't this happen to MLB players who have unfairly set records.
I wound up ranting so much I forgot to actually reply to Emperor on this one. It has now been confrimed that Carl Lewis failed a test for THREE different stimulants before they (the US track team) sent him to Soul in 88, but it was covered up. Linford Christy also failed a drug test after Soul, and Tim Montgomery is currently suspended for using drugs because of the whole Balco scandal. Ben paid the ultimate price. He was a sacrificial lamb, while Lewis keeps his Gold, Linford his Silver, and Montgomery his 9.78 world record. That's what I call unfair. Ben kicked ass that year, with one hand in the air. He is still the Gold medalist as far as I'm concerned. Read the book "Speed Trap" by Charlie Francis (Ben's coach) if you want to know some real dirt on that scandal.
Thanks for your patience, LOL. The longest post I've ever written anywhere, and then my own bump! Cheers,
:thumb: Ronny
BigRon Wrote:Steroids have never killed anyone. Period. Ronny
If it shrinks your penis...you might as well be dead. :thumb: