BigRon Wrote:Steroids have never killed anyone. Period. Ronny
whoa, not so fast there, they might not have directly killed anyone but...
"Taylor Hooton, a cousin of former major leaguer Burt Hooton, was 17 when he hanged himself on July 15, 2003, and his parents think the suicide was due to depression that followed Taylor's end of steroid use. Rob Garibaldi, who played for the University of Southern California, was 24 when he shot himself on Oct. 1, 2002, and his parents also think his death was related to steroids."
taken from:
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The Darkest Canuck Wrote:BigRon Wrote:Steroids have never killed anyone. Period. Ronny
whoa, not so fast there, they might not have directly killed anyone but...
"Taylor Hooton, a cousin of former major leaguer Burt Hooton, was 17 when he hanged himself on July 15, 2003, and his parents think the suicide was due to depression that followed Taylor's end of steroid use. Rob Garibaldi, who played for the University of Southern California, was 24 when he shot himself on Oct. 1, 2002, and his parents also think his death was related to steroids."
taken from:
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I would argue that steroids caused depression but just being a damn pussy and killing yourself has to do with a weak minded person.
I totally agree with TragicallyMike on his post above.
And as for the penis thing. That is the funniest most ridiculous misconception of steroids and their side effects. Why would testosterone cause a penis to shrink, when test is the hormone responsible for it growing in the first place?
The mix up came about because using gear CAN cause your natural test production to shut down temporarily, and therefore some testicular atrophy. If the length of the cycle wasn't stupid, the natural production kicks back in after a while and the nuts come back. Of course, just like any drug there are abuse cases and of course worse case scenarios, but still no shrinking dicks. In fact the opposite usually occurs slightly
Ronny
tragicallymike Wrote:I would argue that steroids caused depression but just being a damn pussy and killing yourself has to do with a weak minded person.
you're a fucking idiot, people jumped all over my nuts in that RCMP officers thread and I didn't even disrespect anyone, and then you come out and say something as stupid, and insensitive as that? i garauntee you'd be too "pussy" to say something that bold to those poor families, so don't say it here either (btw, that makes you real tough eh? calling a dead person a pussy :roll
. fuck tool points, you need the word "tool" stamped on your head in big bold red letters, and then to top it all off, somebody agrees with you :roll: TOOLS!
I'm late to this post, but I have to disagree entirely with the assertion that steroids never killed anybody. Steroids are responsible for just about every obit I've ever written, they weaken the heart, accelerate degenerative conditions and are OFTEN cited as contributing factors in deaths of pro wrestlers who were dropping like flies recently. If mainstream sports and sports media had paid attention to those deaths, this would have been in the open years ago.
Saying steroids don't kill people is like saying guns don't kill people. True, you need another variable: heart medication, pain killers, alchohol, prescription drugs, that lovely oxycontin, but in combination with any of those, steroids can be, and have been, lethal.
They aint all traps and small testicles.
And as for Big Mac. Holy cow did that guy ever piss away whatever legacy he had with his appearance before the committee.
Way to go Mark, you hit your reputation 900ft into the parking lot.
No wait a minute. Like I said, people have killed themselves on every drug ever made. Try alcohol........How many people have killed themselves on that?? I know poeple who have and their families still socially drink!! That means they are intelligent enough to not blame the booze.
Darkest Canuck: One of my friends took his life because of a substance problem and I have no problem being blunt about it. He pussed out. Plain and simple. When he was alive he used to say his favorite thing about me was that I told it like it was....so even after he died I had to keep it that way. He wimped out and fucked up big time. If you want to sugar coat stuff to make it go down better, fine, but I not about coddling and emotional babysitting. Don't call me a tool and don't swear at me. Period.
Stephen, you know I owe you big dude for the disks you sent me, but c'mon..........abuse of any drug does damage. If those wrestlers wouldn't have had cocaine problems, and addictions to very potent and toxic prescription drugs like pain killers and powerful anti-imflamitories, it would be a totally different story. Cocain CAUSES heart failure which is what most of the wrestlers died from. Maybe the fact that wrestling has no off-season is to blame. These guy are using this vast array of drugs non-stop.
My biggest problem is that people want to paint an evil picture of steroids and the hypocrisy is so thick it makes me sick. People are allowed to get dangerous (and yes possibly lethal) invasive plastic surgery all the time to change their bodies. Millions of teenage girls are on birth control (estrogenic steroids) which are linked to several cancers and no one blinks an eye. The drugs we consume every day, like advil, asprin, alcohol, etc, are ALL lethal in high doses. The reason we are allowed to take them is because there is an understanding that if these drugs are used properly, they will most likely not hurt you. WE are responsible for our own actions. Something I am fine with.
Some of the anti-depressant drugs prescribed to millions actually have SEVERE depression as a common side effect if discontinued, and doctors give them out like candy even though there have already been multiple claims of suicide as a result.
Don't you guys care that there are many guys in the Hall of Fame that had coke problems etc, and they are focusing on Big Mac??? Doesn't that seem obsurd?? What about all the guys who have been using gear for years and aren't involved at all with this scandal.........they are okay for the Hall of Fame as long as you don't find out about it?? This is a witch hunt.
I never once said that steroids were not dangerous. I know people who abuse these drugs severely, and I assume there will be consequences for them in the future. I also know a lot of people who are very responsible with their use. They don't drink, eat very healthy, never smoke and have blood work done 3 times a year. In fact I would say their test results would kick ass on most regular people who are at the pub every weekend guzzling booze.
One more thing......any of you who smoke cigarettes can immediately dismiss yourselves as completely uncredible. Save yourselves.
Ronny
BigRon Wrote:Don't you guys care that there are many guys in the Hall of Fame that had coke problems etc, and they are focusing on Big Mac??? Doesn't that seem obsurd?? What about all the guys who have been using gear for years and aren't involved at all with this scandal.........they are okay for the Hall of Fame as long as you don't find out about it?? This is a witch hunt.
Baseball didn't have a steroid policy until recently, so good for the guys who took advantage of it, and made millions because of it. However, the simple fact of the matter is that they knew what they were doing was
wrong. If they didn't think it was wrong, then how come none of them would admit to it? McGwire denied it for years, and still won't admit to it. Giambi only admitted to it while under oath. Bonds played the "duuuuuh, I didn't know it was steroids" card.
Technically what they were doing wasn't cheating, but they knew it wasn't right. And now, millions of dollars and questionable statistics later, you feel sorry for McGwire? Sorry, but he made his bed, and now he can spend the rest of his life lying in it.
don't mistake mental illness for being a pussy, lots of times somebody reaches the point that they're willing to take their own life it's almost completely beyond their control because they're too far gone into one thing or another, the point of no return so to speak.
Darkest Canuck, I totally agree. I in no way set out to trivialize depression as a "pussy" thing. I have known close people with mental illness and it is very hard to watch. All respect.
I wouldn't say I feel sorry for Mac. I am, however, sick of the media trying to influence everyone by being so one sided all the time.
The media isn't presenting the story at all, they are bending it to cause commotion and it is working. Mcquire had no legal reason speak to the congress at all. He stood up for himself and didn't rat on anyone. Like it or not, ratting on people for personal gain, like that piece of shit Canseco did (plus he added tons of extra bullshit), is far more of a character flaw that using steroids.
In dream world, there would be no drugs in sports. That day is so far gone, so now what? Saying they're not allowed doesn't seem to work. Testing helps a bit. In the case of the Olympics, testing sure prevents poor nations from doping but doesn't seem to do squat to stop the US or other nations that can spend the money on research etc, into beating tests.
Most people seem so enraged at Mcquire, steroids, etc, that they aren't looking at the big picture. I can promise you that there were many people aware of any drug use on Mac's part. Team doc, coach, trainers, other players, etc. Drug use in sports is systematically supported and condoned. That is what needs changing. Mcquire getting up in front of congress and ruining some other players lives wouldn't have solved a thing. That's the difference between a man like Mac and a child like Canseco. I am so glad Mac didn't cave just because some grandstanding congressmen were putting on a show for the cameras. Blah blah blah. What a fine example of gov't at work.
I just wish that the rest of them would have grown a pair, instead of having a lawyer read a prepared statement like Sosa did. "I would never break the laws of the US or the Dominican Rep." Ya right.
Never the less, a good thread.
Cheers,
Ronny
Ask yourself this, as you toodle off to work in the morning: what if I had to take speed to increase my work output, or risk losing my job? What if getting a raise depended on taking speed? What if I knew that was bad for my health? I'd have the choice of losing my job for inefficiency, or risking my health....
Steroids in professional sport are an occupational health and safety issue. For that reason, they should be banned.
But the athletes don't actually give a shit. The last thing they want is mandatory drug testing, both for competitive and recreational reasons. So, fuck 'em. If their own unions aren't interested in it as a health and safety issue, why should the government be?
BigRon Wrote:I am so glad Mac didn't cave just because some grandstanding congressmen were putting on a show for the cameras. Blah blah blah. What a fine example of gov't at work.
I just wish that the rest of them would have grown a pair, instead of having a lawyer read a prepared statement like Sosa did. "I would never break the laws of the US or the Dominican Rep." Ya right.
McGwire had an opportunity to come forth and say:
Yes, I took steroids. I did it for a competitive edge, but I regret doing it and I shouldn't have done it. That would have been growing a pair. Sure, half of the sports media still would have villified him, but I think a good chunk of sports media would have said:
that was the bravest thing McGwire could have done. It took a big man to do what he did today, blah blah blah. And they would have continued to support him.
Don't you think most of the world would think differently of Pete Rose had he come out back in the day and said:
You know what? I have a gambling problem and I screwed up. I'm sorry, and I'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again. Instead he denies, denies, denies until he has a book to sell, and suddenly no one is calling for Pete to be elected to the HoF anymore.
Sorry, but in my books McGwire didn't come close to growing a pair. He copped out.
Cferneyh, You have a point, I guess we'll never know. I also know that to me, the other guys looked so bad saying what they said.
Skippy, you have a good point. I think that is basically a metaphor for what is happening in sports. The players are required to perform like superhumans for entire careers. The millions of dollars is definitely a huge factor.
I must admit, I don't actually care about baseball at all. I just find this circus so interesting because of all the ignorance. I don't mean you guys, so don't think I'm being a dick. I am refering to all the people who are acting like they are actually surprised. I bet Bush knew about Canseco's reputation when he traded for him back in the early 90's. Stuff like that annoys me.
I also have to admit that I really wanted this to go very badly for congress. I wanted them to look bad on TV which I think they did to a lot of people. How about that one guy who was mad that a player has to test positive 5 times to be banned. He wanted a "one strike you're out for life" policy.
For fuck's sake, drunk drivers only get a one year suspension first offence where I live. Of course they would have to have a graduated system of punishment. Those congressmen seemed out of touch with reality, and very intent on putting words in people's mouths.
Ronny
The Darkest Canuck Wrote:tragicallymike Wrote:I would argue that steroids caused depression but just being a damn pussy and killing yourself has to do with a weak minded person.
you're a fucking idiot, people jumped all over my nuts in that RCMP officers thread and I didn't even disrespect anyone, and then you come out and say something as stupid, and insensitive as that? i garauntee you'd be too "pussy" to say something that bold to those poor families, so don't say it here either (btw, that makes you real tough eh? calling a dead person a pussy :roll. f**k tool points, you need the word "tool" stamped on your head in big bold red letters, and then to top it all off, somebody agrees with you :roll: TOOLS!
Oh my God the most hated person in here is calling me a Tool, Im probably gonna lose sleep over this. Do everyone a favor and leave this place.
tragicallymike Wrote:Oh my God the most hated person in here is calling me a Tool, Im probably gonna lose sleep over this. Do everyone a favor and leave this place.
Yeah, but this time, he's right. Darkest Canuck actually understands the ultimate cause of suicide: mental illness, not weak-minded pussyhood.
skippy the wonder dog Wrote:tragicallymike Wrote:Oh my God the most hated person in here is calling me a Tool, Im probably gonna lose sleep over this. Do everyone a favor and leave this place.
Yeah, but this time, he's right. Darkest Canuck actually understands the ultimate cause of suicide: mental illness, not weak-minded pussyhood.
I disagree, I've know 2 people that have killed themselves and just like Big Ron I call it as I see it. They were weak people.