I remember when I used to care what 20 guys in blue and white jerseys were doing for three hours every saturday night.
Now ... meh. Deal gets done; deal doesn't get done; they can all go to hell.
I've sublimated: Go Raptors!
ct
...from Today's Toronto Star (I cut and pasted it as it's a subscription site)...
Quote:NHL to make a new bid to settle
Common ground to be included in offer
DAMIEN COX
HOCKEY COLUMNIST
Ask yourself this question: Why did the NHL players' union, specifically Trevor Linden, seem at the very least neutral following a meeting with the league last Thursday, then appear utterly outraged 24 hours later with key members of the executive committee angrily declaring the season to be over?
Sounds a little strategic, wouldn't you say?
Given that rhetoric and bombast have dominated this entire process but never fail to have people believing it reflects the true state of negotiations, one shouldn't be surprised that the players delivered a staged gloom-and-doom message last Friday.
They then had all their carefully groomed media personnel echo that message over the past three days in the most strident terms possible.
But the fact is the players knew then and know today that they will be getting a new offer from the owners in the next 48 hours, and that this offer will likely reflect some of the common ground forged in the two-day session last week in Chicago and Toronto.
On Friday, the players were simply endeavouring to solicit the league's best offer with another round of chest-thumping.
They know they've lost. They just need an honourable way to save face.
With this, for all intents and purposes, the last possible week to do a deal, it is now incumbent upon the league to create that face-saving opportunity.
It's possible that won't happen, but more likely that it will.
Indeed, there are all kinds of unique concepts kicking around right now, some of which were tossed around last week in the meetings involving Linden, Calgary owner Harley Hotchkiss and various league and union officials.
You should expect that the league will throw out some notions in its new proposal that simply haven't been heard by the public before.
For example, they might offer the players something along the lines of a unilateral re-opener clause if, in three or four years, they don't like the way a new deal has worked out.
Expect to hear a profit-sharing proposal, with the players getting a disproportionate share over a certain figure, and even an intriguing combination salary cap/luxury tax scheme that would extend the range of possible salaries but include a tax in the middle.
For example, the range for salary cap purposes could be something like a minimum of $33 million to a maximum of $50 million per team.
But those teams interested in spending more than, say, $40 million, would have to pay a tax that would then create a pool for revenue sharing.
Or they might have to forfeit draft picks.
So overall spending is limited, but there would still be room for the wealthy Leafs, Flyers and Rangers to spend more than $40 million if they were willing to pay a surcharge in money or draft picks.
Interesting, huh? The owners can say they got a cap, the players could say they fought and achieved a tax/revenue sharing system.
More to the point, there would be an awful lot of players who would look at such a proposal and suggest to their union leadership that it would be time to go back to work.
And that's the dynamic the league has to create over the next 48 hours if it really has an interest in having a competition for the 2005 Stanley Cup.
Indeed, it would be the height of stupidity for the league, if it wants to save a portion of the season, to throw the players not just a bone, but a few bones.
The players have been saying publicly for months that they suspect the league has already written off the season.
Well, if the league comes up with an offer today or tomorrow that simply mirrors their December offer, we'll know the players were right.
If they come up with something decidedly more complex and appealing, all may not yet be lost.
schaggs Wrote:While the lockout is sad, I feel I'm just about the only person on the side of the players.....
Sure, they make ridiculous amounts of money and no one should get payed that much to play a game. But... for the sake of argument, lets say you make 50,000 a year in a company with ten employees.... and the boss tells you that because of the new government regulations (collective barganing agreement), he's only allowed to pay a total of 360,000 to his employees (salary cap)... thus, everyone is going to take an average $14,000 a year cut in salary. You'd be pissed off too.
I think it should either be a higher cap (i.e. 75mil) where teams can buy extra room from the league for 5 cents on the dollar paid out to EVERY OTHER TEAM - i.e. 1 million more = 50,000 paid out to 29 teams, or 1.45mil in payments..... or,
Salary cap the games, not the total cost. Maximum yearly salary for the team that gets dressed = $45mil. That way, if you wanna pay a player 15 mil a year, great, but the rest of your team can only cost 30 mil on any given night.
I think both solutions could work for both parties, if implemented correctly, and they can both shut up and get back to playing and working on the strength of their league.
I find it absolutely comical that someone would seriously suggest that going from an annual salary of $1.8 million to $1.3 million is the
same as going from $50K to $36K. The difference, schaggs, is that if one was smart with their $1.8 million for three of four years, they'd never have to work again. Do you thinking someone making $50K could retire after three or four years? It is nowhere near the same thing.
Here's what it comes down to - financial success of owners ensures financial success of the teams which ensures financial success of the league which means the league survives and thrives. However, financial success of the players means the players are wealthy. It doesn't make the league any more successful or stable. It just means this current generation of players has a fat bank account.
I agree with the people who say we need to scrap the NHL and start over. We need to go back and make hockey a game for the people who love it, not a game for every upper-middle-class American with nothing better to do. I was at two Panthers games as part of a snowbird travel deal when I went to Florida in 2002 and I felt like the only one in the arena who knew what the ref's hand signals meant. He called a dive and I was like WHAT?!?! So I stood up, yelled, and realized you could hear a pin drop. (Yes, I just outed myself as a "loud" fan but a fan nonetheless!!! Unlike the other 7,000 who paid for a ticket!!!)
The players are stupid and naive to think they can avoid a cap. The longer they delude themselves, the less revenue the league will have when it starts up and the less the players will get paid. If they're willing to play in Europe for a couple hundred thou, why bitch about getting a couple hundred thou LESS on a million-dollar salary in North America???
go®d Wrote:I agree with the people who say we need to scrap the NHL and start over. We need to go back and make hockey a game for the people who love it, not a game for every upper-middle-class American with nothing better to do.
That's simply not going to happen. The NHL - or any pro league for that matter - is always going to be chasing new fans. Just like any other business, it's about increasing revenues and profit, not keeping them flat.
cferneyh
I never said a drop in pay from 1.8 to 1.3 million was the same as 50k-36k.... all I said was that a pay cut of that magnitude would piss anyone off. The players aren't going to take a 500,000 pay cut anymore than you would take a 14k pay cut. A pay cut is still a pay cut and I don't know anyone on the planet who would happily work for less, regardless of what they're making.
cferneyh Wrote:That's simply not going to happen. The NHL - or any pro league for that matter - is always going to be chasing new fans. Just like any other business, it's about increasing revenues and profit, not keeping them flat.
While I agree in principle, there comes a point when you have to surrender (or at least take a break from) this "chase" and realize that in your desperate attempts to attract new fans to your game, you're doing irreparable damage to your base support...
NHL hockey has been around for nearly 100 years in both Canada and the US; it's highly unlikely there are any new fans left to find...it's clear that Americans (outside certain hockey "hotbeds") have seen NHL hockey and don't care for it.
The day the NHL gets it's head out of it's rear end and finally realizes this will be the day they take a step forward, rather than backward...
cferneyh Wrote:go®d Wrote:I agree with the people who say we need to scrap the NHL and start over. We need to go back and make hockey a game for the people who love it, not a game for every upper-middle-class American with nothing better to do.
That's simply not going to happen. The NHL - or any pro league for that matter - is always going to be chasing new fans. Just like any other business, it's about increasing revenues and profit, not keeping them flat.
I know, that's where reality "intrudes".
What MikeS said about harming the core base of support by branching out too far remidns me of when a band "goes commercial" and all the die-hard fans stop buying their albums. Sure, they make more money anyway, but you feel the sting as a true fan who was there before they changed their sound and commercial radio took interest - "selling out".
I think the AHL, both the games and the audiences, are more along the lines of what I want out of hockey. I find the caliber (sp?) of the fans a little better...not that I'm an elitist or anything, watching hockey is totally just a fun social thing, but I find the guys and gals at the AHL games care more about the game. I can actually have conversations about rule changes and ref calls with them. The NHL in its current form id DEAD to me. My two cents.
schaggs Wrote:cferneyh
I never said a drop in pay from 1.8 to 1.3 million was the same as 50k-36k.... all I said was that a pay cut of that magnitude would piss anyone off. The players aren't going to take a 500,000 pay cut anymore than you would take a 14k pay cut. A pay cut is still a pay cut and I don't know anyone on the planet who would happily work for less, regardless of what they're making.
Yeah, but if my company told me I had to take a paycut from $50K to $36K, I wouldn't say "Screw it. I'm going to Europe to work for $3K".
MikeS Wrote:cferneyh Wrote:That's simply not going to happen. The NHL - or any pro league for that matter - is always going to be chasing new fans. Just like any other business, it's about increasing revenues and profit, not keeping them flat.
While I agree in principle, there comes a point when you have to surrender (or at least take a break from) this "chase" and realize that in your desperate attempts to attract new fans to your game, you're doing irreparable damage to your base support...
NHL hockey has been around for nearly 100 years in both Canada and the US; it's highly unlikely there are any new fans left to find...it's clear that Americans (outside certain hockey "hotbeds") have seen NHL hockey and don't care for it.
The day the NHL gets it's head out of it's rear end and finally realizes this will be the day they take a step forward, rather than backward...
Hey, I don't disagree with you. I'd like to have it go back to 21 teams. I'd like to have the Norris and Adams and Patrick and Smythe divisions back. But owners are in this game to make a buck.
But I don't think it is true to say that there are no fans left in North America to find. Sure, there may not be a ton of people out there who are going to be converted to hard core fans, but there are plenty of people who have never been to a game that
might fall in love with it if they do get a chance to go to one.
That being said, is there anything more depressing than a Nashville versus Phoenix game? YAWN.
cferneyh Wrote:That being said, is there anything more depressing than a Nashville versus Phoenix game? YAWN.
Umm how about Anaheim at Carolina in front of fewer than 4,500 people? There was so little noise when Carolina scored, I forgot which side of the country the game was being played on.
I caught St. John's and Binghampton in front of 14,000 on Saturday and then watched the London Knights eat the 67's alive in front of 10,000 on Sunday.
I certainly don't miss the millionaires.
From CNN:
Hockey fan speaks from the grave
It appears only an 11th-hour miracle can save the NHL season, but
even that would be too late to help Archie Bennitz. The 84-year-old
Canadian died last week and used his obituary as a forum to trash
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union leader Bob Goodenow
from the grave. "He asked that Mr. Bettman and Mr. Goodenow know
that they are 'skunks' for denying him the pleasure of watching the
NHL this year," read Bennitz's death notice in last Thursday's Ottawa
Citizen. "He also asked that Mr. Bettman step aside and give Wayne
Gretzky the job that rightfully belongs to him."
You tell 'em, Archie. R.I.P.
go®d Wrote:From CNN:
Hockey fan speaks from the grave
It appears only an 11th-hour miracle can save the NHL season, but
even that would be too late to help Archie Bennitz. The 84-year-old
Canadian died last week and used his obituary as a forum to trash
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union leader Bob Goodenow
from the grave. "He asked that Mr. Bettman and Mr. Goodenow know
that they are 'skunks' for denying him the pleasure of watching the
NHL this year," read Bennitz's death notice in last Thursday's Ottawa
Citizen. "He also asked that Mr. Bettman step aside and give Wayne
Gretzky the job that rightfully belongs to him."
You tell 'em, Archie. R.I.P.
Talk about the ultimate PR disaster! :lol:
Regarding the article Mike posted... I still don't believe a deal will be reached... and even if one is done, how many games will there realistically be in the shortened season? 25? 30? Man, the season would be an absolute joke... how could anyone take it seriously?
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.legacy.com/can-ottawa/LegacySubPage2.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=3063742">http://www.legacy.com/can-ottawa/Legacy ... Id=3063742</a><!-- m -->