PunBB

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:'Horror' - well, what would you call it, if your daughter had been brutally raped and your son proceeded to murder the perpetrators, and then imprisoned for life? If that's not 'horror' from a maternal point of view, what is?

It's the timing of the use of the word. For sure, 18 years ago, when two of your family members are involved in a rape and murder, that's the epitome of "horror". However, why is the "horror" now ceasing with Michael's capture? There has been no true closure here. The son is going back to prison, now for an extended sentence. Maybe the mom was concerned that Michael could have been killed while being tracked by the mounties? I think she might be relieved that it's over. But to describe it as the horror being over, yes, that does seem over the top to me.

I take it as wishful thinking from the mother. Her son is back, that's all she wants to think about. That Michael immediately undermines her optimism ('yeah, for the time being at least') supports this interpretation. In any case, I never heard the line as a problem.

I just find the song and story completely hollow. The setup is decent...a prison break, then...one of them might be really bad...surprise he's my brother who may or may not be innocent. The framework is ok, but there's very little depth or insight, the painfully scarce details are somewhat mundane for the plot, and there's none of that trademark Downie wit or clever phrasing. Compare this song to Scared. There's nothing in the same stratosphere as "Tickled to death by their importance" or

Defanged destroyer limps into the bay
Down at the beach it's attracting quite a crowd
As kids wade through blood out to it to play

Those lyrics hit you with FORCE. They're impactful. 38 Years is nothing without the acoustic riff. It does NOT deserve to be top three on this album! Don't let me down Terrariumites!

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:I take it as wishful thinking from the mother. Her son is back, that's all she wants to think about. That Michael immediately undermines her optimism ('yeah, for the time being at least') supports this interpretation. In any case, I never heard the line as a problem.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a "problem". Just something I felt was off. It's interesting that you hear the line 'yeah, for the time being at least' as coming from Michael. I've always heard it as being spoken by the Mounties. I'm not sure why Michael would agree that capture was the end of the horror. You've got me re-thinking it now.

Well, there's no denying that the song is not up there with 'Scared,' which is one of the best things Downie ever wrote. '38 Years Old' is a straightforward 'story' song; a sad little song might be the best way to describe it. It's certainly not in the same league as 'Scared' or 'Nautical Disaster.' But then again, hardly anything is, including 95% of the Hips' work.

My claim isn't that it's a lyrical masterpiece, just that the lyrics are good for what they are - a straight up narrative about a failed prison break. They move the story along in a well-judged non-linear fashion (Had the tale started with the rape and murder, it'd reward our attention much less).

If I had to elaborate in greater detail, I would say the first verse is the strongest:

Twelve men broke loose in '73
From Millhaven maximum security
They mostly came from towns with long French names
But one of the dozen was a hometown shame

The last line is utilitarian, but what I like in this is the specificity of the second and third lines. 'Long French names' is a nicely wry, Downie-ish observation, while the Millhaven reference adds a necessary verisimilitude.

The other very robust bit of writing is the middle eight:

See, my sister got raped, some men got killed
Local boy went to prison, man's buried on the hill
Things got back to normal when they closed the case
But they still stare at their shoes when they pass our place

The concision of the first couplet is exemplary - minimalist storytelling par excellence. The latter couplet captures as well as anything in the song the feel of small-town life when it's been punctuated by a traumatic event. Very evocative.

The other two verses are about plot (what happens), exposition (who it's happening to, and where), and character (the tremulous, deluded mother, the hopeless, desperate convict, the helpless observant little brother). They do all this well.

Meanwhile, the chorus is tidily perfect. The family's life is as frozen - as over - as the convict's.

It's true that it's not especially *flashy* songwriting - but that doesn't make it bad. It's a narrative ballad, well crafted.

Of course it's a good song...it's The Hip! I just think it's far less interesting than their others.

But KWT you make me question my arguments...I don't like that. I'm still voting it off the island. And if you bastards don't keep Opiated at least top five then I am done with these MF polls! *

* Angry threat will not be honoured. I enjoy these polls tremendously.

Boy, I can't wait till we get to Trouble At the Henhouse to see the in depth analysis of Butts Wigglin

That was rough. There are no throwaways for me on this disk. I find 38 a very good song behind a tremendously compelling story. Lyrically, and strictly from a melodic perspective I find this tune to be slightly behind the remaining options. Chopped. Sorry Bobby, one of my fave slide guitars in your library.

Ok, I know this is long, so I'm gonna break it up into 2 posts. If you just want the upshot, lol, go to the final final paragraph.

I think '38 Years Old" is a masterpiece. Lyrically, Gord is at his boldest, most ambitious, most risk-taking, most exposed--it is SO HARD to tell a linear narrative--beginning, middle, end--as a writer. Especially in song-writing, it's far easier to be oblique & indirect--stitch together some evocative individual lines or imagistic couplets & allow a narrative to emerge in the minds of the listener. Which Gord does so well. But being direct exposes you as a writer, all your artistic strengths & failings are on display. Pushing your talent to conform to the story rather than the other way around, is one of the greatest challenges a writer can set for her/himself. & for Gord to take up this challenge & put the results out there into permanence this early in his career is a high-wire move I respect & admire.

& the results of that high-wire act! Jesus.Off the top of my head, the only other linear, direct "storytelling" narrative I can think of that comes close to "38 Years Old" in terms of directness & quality is the Double Suicide Rant, which potentially Gord may have written around the same time.

I love the way the song is completely emptied out in service of the story. Lyrics--WORDS--are the central character of this song. To absolutely eerie effect--the emptiness, the almost gothic storytelling of family & chaos, reminds me so much of the 1967 film "In Cold Blood".

Others here have written at length abt the lyrics so I don't want to add too much, but artistically he's already making choices lightyears ahead of the EP. Just that first line: typically, prisoners "escape" or "break out" or it's a "prison break". Gord opts for "broke loose", which in 2 words tells the whole story. And the couplet toward the end:

My mother cried the horror has finally ceased
He whispered Yeah. For the time being at least

It's a really stellar early example of the technique Gord returns to again & again, lyrically--telling 2 stories at once, telling a story & undermining it in the same breath, saying one thing & it's opposite equally convincingly.

Not to mention thematically what that couplet does for the story. "38 Years Old" is a chilling rendition of the old story: "Something wicked this way comes". What better way to show the way chaos & violence have destroyed this family than to show a kid barely out of childhood who is already filled with a horror he doesn't know how to control or endure or escape from. He & his sister have been changed irrevocably, by chance & other people's violence.

The chorus is a stroke of genius, & to end with it means, possibly, that the story begins all over again. That trauma echoes down the years, the way chaos reproduces chaos. "38 years old, never kissed a girl" could describe the rapist at the beginning AND the legacy of trauma for the brother at the end. It's like a magic trick: Gord uses linear, straight-line narrative to tell a circular story. For all the narrative flaws this song has--& you all have enumerated them here--the song is still otherworldly, to me.

I haven't even touched on Gord's voice, which--he sounds as good on other songs, but is there a single song where he sounds better? That.howl at.the.end. Not to mention, this hit has been performed basically twice on stage in the last 20 years. How does that happen? You could argue this song is so powerful it had a life of its own, so much so that they had to take steps to contain it. They actually had to put this song away in a box. In all their repertoire, this song is a singularity. Orphaned, intentionally. The story OF the song is kind of as interesting as the story IN the song--a not infrequent occurrence with the Hip.

I'm not going to choose '38 Years' as the best song on the album, because I'm going to choose the song I love the most, my favourite song. But if I were choosing on artistic merit--depth of artistry--I think there's a solid argument that this song is number one on the album.

In summary, lol, after all these words: Other songs on this album, especially Blow & New Orleans say 'This band is going to be huge'. But to me, 38 Years Old says 'This band is going to be special'.

At the end of all the albums can we do the same poll with all of the winners?

Killer Whale Tank Wrote:Great point. But I actually don't hear these supposed flaws.

'War to Wage' - I think this aptly suits the militant mindset of police officers suddenly mobilized to round up 12 dangerous convicts; especially police in sleepy rural Ontario. You can almost picture these mounties bellowing, 'GO GO GO!!!' as they barrel out the door to track down these mofos.

'Horror' - well, what would you call it, if your daughter had been brutally raped and your son proceeded to murder the perpetrators, and then imprisoned for life? If that's not 'horror' from a maternal point of view, what is?

Finally, nothing in the song or lyric implies that the family 'turns Mike in.' More likely, the Mounties tracked him there (it'd be the first place they'd suspect, after all; and if the song has any real flaw, it's the idea that the convict would go home to his family - although that in itself isn't completely implausible. We don't know the details, and people aren't always rational calculators in such extreme situations).

Nothing wrong with this particular lyric IMHO.

My problem with this song is that the Mounties wouldn't be heavily involved in a search in Ontario, or in any Québec town with a long French name. Even though it's a federal pen, it would be local or provincial police. Look up any news story about a real prison break in those jurisdictions. And who is the "Chief"? That's not an RCMP rank. Think I over analyzed it?

Maybe Mike had no plan to escape for a long time, and just wanted to visit. As for the father turning him in, I think it was intentionally left open to interpretation. Was he lying on the phone or did he mean it? Arguably he might realize that being on the lam could just lead to a longer sentence... Probably the best song to stew over because it actually stays on the same topic from end to end.

chagrinfalls - great post :thumb:

I'll second KWT on that... fantastic post chagrinfalls. 38 yo is the foundation of Downie's legacy as a story-teller. I don't think there is a more complete narrative within his songbook. I wish he would have pursued writing more from the third person perspective as he does it so well on this song and a few others.

potsie Wrote:38 yo is the foundation of Downie's legacy as a story-teller. I don't think there is a more complete narrative within his songbook. I wish he would have pursued writing more from the third person perspective as he does it so well on this song and a few others.

Well said. I know it's a bit off topic, but talking about linear narrative & storytelling in Gord's work, it's hard not to think of 'Secret Path'. The whole point of the project is to honour & document the actual events of Chaney's life & death--with 'Secret Path', Gord tackles a daunting work of complete linear narrative. Of course he arrives at a unique way of doing it, using film & a graphic novel to preserve the linear narrative, while his songs provide....I don't know what to call it yet. Narration rather than narrative, maybe.

"Swing Set" tho is one of 2 songs that actually follow a linear narrative. It tells a very specific part of the story & provides narrative in a very linear way. The other is that diamond, "7 Matches". It's such an intriguing song, because yes it's linear narrative, but he doesn't achieve that by telling us what happens. He uses the image of the shrinking number of matches to get us to imagine all of it. Some of his best & most powerful writing IMO, & an amazing song. I wish I could listen to it more but maybe the nature of those songs from 'Secret Path' is that they're never going to stop being a gutpunch.