PunBB

...haven't the Hip ever made a dent in the United States, or the rest of the world? I know this topic is something the band itself is tired being asked, and I apologize if it has been discussed ad infinitum on Hipbase. Still, as an American who is a relative newbie to the Hip's outstanding body of work, the question has really been on my mind a lot lately. I don't mean to imply that breaking big in the U.S. is the be-all and end-all--(one need not validate one's career by being big in the States), but it sure doesn't hurt your career (just ask the Beatles).

Okay, let me first bore you with a little testimonial:

I've only been listening to the Hip for a little over three years, but I've been a music fan for a long time. I listen to practically every kind of music out there, from Coltrane to Cash, Dead Kennedys to Dylan, Public Enemy to Pink Floyd, Brecht/Weill, Stones, Beatles, etc. I'm pretty much all over the map.

I came upon the Hip kind of by accident. I do recall, back in the late '80s or early '90s, hearing of "some up and coming band" called the Tragically Hip, but I was into other stuff then and never investigated further. Later, in 1997, I saw the movie "The Sweet Hereafter" and was captivated and haunted by this song called "Courage" sung by Sarah Polley. I loved it so much I bought the soundtrack. I'm now embarrassed to say that when I opened the CD liner notes, I expected to see "S. Polley" in the songwriting credits, only to see "Tragically Hip." I checked my local record stores to see if they had any Hip CDs, saw none, and once again must have gotten sidetracked and didn't investigate any further. It wasn't until January 2006 that I noticed my library had a copy of the Hip's "Yer Favourites" that a light bulb went off and I said, "Oh yeah, those guys who wrote 'Courage.' I'll check this out--I've always wanted to hear what these guys were like." All I have to say is that, when I listened to "Yer Favourites" for the first time, I felt a connection to this band that I have rarely felt with any other musician. I soon bought my own copy of "YF" and within a few months had purchased the entire Hip discography. Every new purchase was a delightful new suprise. I was completely knocked out by the breadth and range of the Hip's music. While listening to each new CD I acquired, all I could think of was, "where the hell have I been for 19 years, these guys are f***ing amazing!" The real culmination came on April 12, 2007 when I finally saw them peform live (at Detroit's State Theater)-- it ranks as one of the best live shows I've ever seen by anyone.

So why the HELL is it that this band has only seen big success in Canada and practically nowhere else? Is it that Gord's lyrics are too distinctly Canadian in theme and subject matter? Did the Hip's record labels not promote them well enough or with sufficient intelligence or vigor throughout their career? (One of my own theories is that the Hip's music takes some patience and time to absorb, time that your typical "bottom-line" radio program director or ADD-afflicted hipster music critic can't deal with--thus not helping the band's cause).

I just think the Hip are a friggin' GREAT band, and put them up there with Neil Young, the Band, Joni Mitchell, and Gordon Lightfoot as the very best music Canada has produced. I'm just flat-out mystified by the lack of attention the Hip have gotten outside of their home country.

Once again, sorry if I'm beating an extemely dead and decomposed horse!

CanCon laws, probably.

I think Randy Bachman said it best when he said that they never had that one "hit" song. For whatever reason they never wrote that radio-friendly tune that would break them in the U.S. I can't complain though, as it's pretty sweet to be able to drive a couple of hours south and see them in an intimate venue rather than a big hockey arena.

"Is it that Gord's lyrics are too distinctly Canadian in theme and subject matter"
That is my #1 guess.

Bachman saying they havent had a number one hit is bull I think. Courage, Three Pistols, Ahead, those would all be easy top radio hits in the states if they wanted.

I'm with you, Bookhead. My thing though is why they haven't made it big in AUSTRALIA. Their music is exactly what aussies love - lots of guitar and music you can sit down and crank at a bbq with a couple of coldies. Two or three of The Hip's tunes remind me of guy from there called Paul Kelly actually. I was very surprised when I first heard them that they hadn't made a dent in my home country.

VioletLite Wrote:I'm with you, Bookhead. My thing though is why they haven't made it big in AUSTRALIA. Their music is exactly what aussies love - lots of guitar and music you can sit down and crank at a bbq with a couple of coldies. Two or three of The Hip's tunes remind me of guy from there called Paul Kelly actually. I was very surprised when I first heard them that they hadn't made a dent in my home country.

Paul Kelly is amazing, 'Pouring Petrol on a Burning Man', 'Deeper Water', 'Adelaide', 'Love Never Runs on Time', I could go on... :music

WOW you know Paul Kelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!! Yeah he is fantastic, one of my favourite entertainers for sure. How cool someone on here knows his stuff :thumb:

VioletLite Wrote:WOW you know Paul Kelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!! Yeah he is fantastic, one of my favourite entertainers for sure. How cool someone on here knows his stuff :thumb:

I "discovered" him while watching the broadcast of the Australian Live Earth (?) concerts. The way people were going nuts for him down there, and singing every word really caught my attention, then he sang deeper water and I was sold. Are you an Aussie?

Very very cool!!!! Yep I am an Aussie, been living in the states for almost 5 years. I think that is why I love The Hip so much...... they remind me a lot of Australian bands. There's a certain warmth to them, which I am yet to feel in any American band. Seeing The Hip makes me feel like I'm home in a strange sense

My belief is that there is no one single answer. It's assuredly a combination of things at play. Surely the marketing ineptitude from the record labels over the years play a part - Gord Downie once was asked if he liked their label, and he famously replied "They can't possibly be any worse than our last one." (or words to that effect).

As for the lyrics, I think the on-going Canadiana theme in the lyrics is a big part of their rabid following in Canada, but I am not at all convinced it is ALSO a part of their lack of success in the states and elsewhere. Despite some songs being packed with references to Canadian culture, geography, etc, the THEMES examined in Downie's lyrics are universal. That's not to say there's nothing unique about Canada or Downie's commentary on her (is Canada a "her"? I know the U.S. is...never quite understood why though - I mean, if the U.S. is a girl, then what the hell is Florida?).

Here's my theory: Like I said, I don't think there's one single answer. But whenever this question comes up, it causes me to reflect on what makes The Hip different than other bands. And to me, the answer is deceptively simple.

This band defies description. Like the OP said, the range of mood this band is capable of capturing on record and expressing in concert surpasses every other band I've ever heard, and by such a wide margin that it's almost too much for the average casual music listener to comprehend. I would posit that to most music listeners, the idea that a song with such unbridled rage as Fire In The Hole could ever possibly come from the same source as a song as gentle and beautiful yet oddly haunting as As I Wind Down The Pines. And that's just the opposite ends of the spectrum. In between, you've got dozens and dozens of little stops on the trip from point A to point B.

The average consumer of entertainment not only wants, but needs things packaged neatly and presented in a satisfying, easily digestible format. Most people seek out entertainment that enables them to drop out of life for a little while. The last thing people like this want is something that rather than allowing the listener to just get away for awhile, actually causes the mind to leap into action. Nothing The Hip's ever done has been "dumbed down." While there was a time in their career where they aspired to high levels of success in the States, they realized (or likely have known all along) that to do that, they'd probably have to fundamentally alter their music-making philosophy. That sacrifice in integrity simply isn't worth it.

After all, we're talking about 5 incredibly well-grounded, well-adjusted guys. These aren't "rock stars" that seek massive fortunes and international fame. I'm sure they've all made enough money off their Canadian success alone that they live financially comfortable lives. If they were to break big in the states withOUT altering how they approach their artform, I'm sure they'd be pleased, and more power to them. But to "make it" without sticking to their ideals would be an incredibly hollow success for them. It's widely known that they long ago threw in the towel on even being concerned over the whole "will we ever break in the states?" thing. And that was unquestionably the right thing to do. Just keep making "honest rock'n'roll" and everything else will take care of itself. They'll all die someday, and when they do, they probably won't have Bon Jovi money. But they'll die fulfilled, and they'll die happy with what they did with their lives.

I'm sure we're all quite well aware that a large portion of The Hip's music takes repeated listening before you find yourself attracted to it. (Just look at everyone's original reaction to most of the songs from World Container and WATS on this forum alone)

Your typical listener who has never really been exposed to The Hip in the way most of us have more than likely aren't willing to sit through an entire album 20-30 times if they aren't attracted to what they're listening to the first time through.

People tend to stick to what they know and love. Someone just being intoduced to The Hip are likely going to be overwhelmed by a collection of albums dating back 22 years lol. That's a lot of music to try and grasp, especially when a massive amount of their songs can be interpreted in multiple/endless ways, things just aren't cut and dry like you see with many artists out there.

I have friends who simply don't have any interest in The Hip... These are the same people who have only heard a couple of their songs a couple of times and wrote them off... I have a feeling if you were to gives these people a few albums and have them listen front to back a few times over, they'd change their opinion or at least find a few songs on there that they'll connect with as IMO The Hip have something for pretty much everyone.

briansmccabe Wrote:The average consumer of entertainment not only wants, but needs things packaged neatly and presented in a satisfying, easily digestible format.

So shouldn't they also be unsuccessful in Canada?

Simply put, Canadians have better taste.

There are also a shitload of American references in the lyrics. Looking at song titles alone, there might be more. Three of the songs on IBE are named after American locations. If cultural references were somehow related to sales, IBE should have been a smash success.

I don't listen to The Hip for the Canadian content, does anyone else? Half the time it isn't obvious that Gord is referring to something "Canadian" unless you do some research.

I really don't like the argument that The Hip's songs are too Canadian.

The Darkest Canuck Wrote:Simply put, Canadians have better taste.

Canadian Top 40 Chart.