[opiated]

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[Jenna_Bird]

High levels of testosterone are not necessarily an indicator of any misdeeds. Secondary blood tests are needed. It makes me sick to think that he may have done anything devious, seeing as it would be a huge blow to American cycling. However, this is typical American media coverage of a sport that they don't seem to understand. The amount of tests that these riders endure ensure that they're clean are more developed than the likes seen in the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB.

-Jenna

[The Horrible Esthete]

However, this is typical American media coverage of a sport that they don't seem to understand.

Well, whether American media understands cycling or not, the report seems both fair and legitimate to me. You know darn well that this is getting similar coverage worldwide. A failed doping test is just that, nothing more and nothing less.

Who knows, maybe the high testosterone levels stem from those cortizone shots he took for his hip? We'll see - it is true that cycling has the most stringent testing of almost all sports -- even more stringent than Olympic testing -- and often times, positive tests result from medications or supplements or treatments that have been approved for use.

So yes -- more test are needed, and the results of further bloodwork could exonerate Landis, but either way, the fact that the Tour winner had a positive test is always going to be "news".....

[chris]

I watched every stage of the Tour and Stage 17 is the only one that seemed out of sorts for him.

It's also a little fishy that he didn't show up for the next two races - passing on 120,000 Euros in appearance fees. And it's not that he cancelled, he just didn't show up! And Lelangue (his coach) is also "missing".

I hope he is innocent as I love cycling and don't want another drug scandal to ruin it; but in the same breath, it was all too convenient that he came back from such a poor performance on 16 with one of the greatest rides ever on Stage 17.

[opiated]

but in the same breath, it was all too convenient that he came back from such a poor performance on 16 with one of the greatest rides ever on Stage 17.

\

that's how i feel as well, and since that is where the "failed" test is from it makes for an interesting story..i don't think the media is wrong in its coverage of this at all...a failed test is a failed test...plain and simple...

[lilbones]

Certainly the media over here does not understand cycling - as a member of fourth (or it fifth?) estate, I can ensure you that is true.

But as is being said, he failed, and all reports I've heard mentioned a B Sample would be used to verify the A sample. That's the news, and I think it's been reported pretty fairly.


Not to get defensive, because I think the media is as shitty as the next left-wing cynic, but I think it's become too automatic to blame the media. It has its faults, certainly, but more often than not, news agencies do do its due-dilligence (do do its due!) and presents a fairly fair representation of the story. I mean Fox News is ridiculous, and ESPN, at least the channel if not the website, from a sports perspective, is pretty ridiculous, but usually the actual reporting isn't too far off.

Sorry for the rant. Just my $0.02.

Back to the thread. LANDIS IS ON THE DRUGS!

[The Horrible Esthete]

Not to get defensive, because I think the media is as shitty as the next left-wing cynic, but I think it's become too automatic to blame the media.

I'm not sure if I'm reading that correctly, but are you saying that left-wingers are skeptical of the media? Why?

Most major television & print media outlets, by and large, slant to the left. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, TIME, Newsweek, most major newspapers in large markets -- these outlets are no friends of the conservatives.....

[lilbones]

You are reading it correctly... there may be a minor left-slant (and I'm only speaking from a Canadian perspective, since that is where I was born and raised) but people on the actual left (someone who would for NDP) feel a true left POV is not represented, and people who are on the far right feel the same thing. None of the major newspapers in Toronto (The Star being the most to the left) represents the "true left", while both the Post and the Globe more accurately reflect the true right. I'm just a product of the place where I was raised, so that's all I can speak for.

As for the US, the media is liberal, but I think it's far from the left. But I agree that it's more liberal than conservative.

But that wasn't even my point. I forget my point. Something to do with people blaming the media. Yeah. Cycling!

[robert goulet]

This is just more proof that cycling is the dirtiest sport in the world...I don't care what ANYBODY tells me...Lance Armstrong was on drugs while he cycled...whether it was Human Growth Hormone (which there is no test for) or EPO which just became detectable a few years ago this guy was on illegal products as is 99% of the "world-class" cyclists.

The guy came back from cancer and that is out of this world awesome, but I think that feat obscures people's opinions of this athlete.

BTW..I'm a fan of Lance, I just think to say he didn't do drugs is like saying Barry Bonds didn't take steroids...but for whatever reason it seems dirtier when you say Barry did it...doesn't it?

[thompson girl]

I don't care what ANYBODY tells me...Lance Armstrong was on drugs while he cycled...

I completely agree with you. While I'd love to believe that someone could cleanly win the Tour seven years in a row, it does seem like a long-shot.

I am really interested in this story and can't wait to hear how test B turns out.

Hm, I just noticed that Landis' website has been temporarily shut down: http://www.floydlandis.com. Coincidence??

[The Horrible Esthete]

While I'd love to believe that someone could cleanly win the Tour seven years in a row, it does seem like a long-shot.

Yes, it is a stupendous feat. So just because he accomplished something unthinkable, you must assume he did it illegitimately?

I am not so blindly allegient that I dismiss out of hand any and all possibility that Lance may have doped during his career. However, while there is no conclusive evidence that he did, I choose to look at it this way:

If a guy like Lance has the will and the fortitude to beat a progressed stage of cancer right out of himself, I could certainly believe and accept that the guy can win a bicycle race seven times.

Hm, I just noticed that Landis' website has been temporarily shut down: http://www.floydlandis.com. Coincidence??

No - not a coincidence. Everyone and their brother logged onto the site yesterday out of curiosity, and it crashed to bits (as it says right there on the page that does come up). Or is that, too, part of another Big American Conspiracy?

[thompson girl]

While I'd love to believe that someone could cleanly win the Tour seven years in a row, it does seem like a long-shot.

Yes, it is a stupendous feat. So just because he accomplished something unthinkable, you must assume he did it illegitimately?

Hey, I'm not saying that Lance isn't an amazing athlete. Overcoming cancer and its treatments is a stupendous feat in itself. The pessimist in me though can't help but think that all of this (undergoing cancer treatments, winning seven Tours in a row) cannot occur without a "little help".

Heck, I compete in a sport myself and I can't even overcome the flu and return to the same fitness level prior, without a little help.

is that, too, part of another Big American Conspiracy?

As for an American Conspiracy, well Canadian athletes are not all that innocent either...

[The Horrible Esthete]

Hey, I'm not saying that Lance isn't an amazing athlete. Overcoming cancer and its treatments is a stupendous feat in itself. The pessimist in me though can't help but think that all of this (undergoing cancer treatments, winning seven Tours in a row) cannot occur without a "little help".

That's my point -- Lance is more that just an amazing athlete; he is an astounding human being. There is a fight and a spirit in that man that is way, waayy above and beyond even your typical professional athlete. Do you know what chances his doctors gave him of beating the cancer he had? It was virtually nil.

Quite frankly, I think that this almost superhuman 'elan vital' is what creates the superior athlete we've witnessed in Lance, and that it more or less surpasses the realm of understanding for most of us trudging through this life on earth.

Apparently, it is easier to pass his athletic accomplishments off as "illegitimate" than it is to reckon with his sheer superiority of character.

[Sam]

Do you know what chances his doctors gave him of beating the cancer he had? It was virtually nil.

Really? That's odd because testicular cancer has a very high successful treatment rate. It's up around 90%, actually. It's only terminal when the cancer goes systemic - invading the other organs of the body. I'm sure that hasn't happened in Armstrong's case because, frankly, he'd be dead. He can live wihout his testicles but he's not winning the Tour without his lungs or liver.

I'm not saying that Lance Armstrong did take steroids, but one of the potential side effects of injecting horse hormones (which increase muscular development and stamina) into your system is reproductive cancer - you know, like testicular cancer.

So, the question might be, what caused testicular cancer in an otherwise stupendiously healthy athlete? A freak of nature? Or was it environmental?

It's been awhile since I actively followed the Tour - not since I quit competing myself - but the understanding always was that if you wanted to compete at that level, some sort of doping was mandatory. Maybe Armstrong is just an amazing athlete. Maybe he's got a mutated gene, like that Norwegian cross-country skier who's family had a gene that allowed them to use oxygen more efficiently than the rest of us. Or, maybe the answer is more mudane than that.

Whatever the case, Armstrong finished his career without a failed test so in the absence of proof of guilt, he remains innocent. It doesn't look like Landis will be so lucky.

All in all, it doesn't matter much to me. I've met too many athletes to think highly of any of them - illegal dopers or not.

[Jenna_Bird]

Apparently, it is easier to pass his athletic accomplishments off as "illegitimate" than it is to reckon with his sheer superiority of character.

I couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't try. However, I will add that as a long time fan of cycling and of Lance (I saw him win his AM Pro not 20 miles from where I grew up -- that was before cancer, before the Tour, before USPS) there is no doubt that he is an amazing athlete with a superior will. Before he was sick he had mental stamina and physical ability that was unmatched. He is a rare case, in which, he returned better than before; mentally and physically. As many cycling experts understand, the easiest way to detect a doper is through spike in performance. While this is ultimately damning to Landis, it further proves that Lance looks clean. I'm upset about what Landis' possible actions could do to the sport of cycling at such a crucial time, espeically if it means detracting from what Lance achieved.

-Jenna