[mrlayance]

I am not sure what to say..
What do you guys think?

[CanuckCourage]

If by "we" you mean the U.S. , Britain , Spain and the rest of the cronies then yeah . Some war. I detest Bush and his unilateralistic approach . The wealthiest country in the world should have no problem annihilating one of the most poverty stricken. "shock and awe" nice way of putting bombard and destroy. They have claimed to have exhausted all diplomatic possibilities for a peacefull solution. Good one Dubya. In reality they have tried to find a reason to attack Iraq on a consistent basis. The UN have been the ones trying to find a diplomatic solution with the US regime opposing and antagonizing the members of the UN who oppose war. Dubya speaks of the UN becoming irrelevant. Bush and Blair will face their own irrevalence in due time.

[Entropy]

This is how I think it will turn out:
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Seriously. :?

[dannya2]

I think it sucks

[CanuckCourage]

Entropy , that's a pretty clever way diagramming the destabilizing effect the "war" will have in the Middle East . Some of the faces of war will look more like this:






As in the first Gulf War many of Saddam's troops are boys. "Shock and Awe" should take care of a number of them. As in all wars there will be "Collateral Damage" the woman holding the baby fit's into the collateral damage category. In my opinion , a diplomatic solution needs to be found. It's easy to fight a war when it's thousands of Kilometres away and you don't have to worry about a bomb landing in your living room.

[CanuckCourage]

Going to peace rally in Calgary.

[taitgr590]

Hey take a look at these,

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.miniclip.com/dancing.htm">http://www.miniclip.com/dancing.htm</a><!-- m -->

The dancing Bush one doesn't seem to work.

Graham

[hipkid33]

Hey all!

Did not notice any replies from the other side of the border, so I will give a shout. First and foremost, I unconditionally support the U.S. and British toops. I can not say that I agree with what the U.S. Government has decided to do, but bring our boys and girls home safe. I will always support my country and I am also very proud to have Canada as a neighbor.
When everything went down I really did not know what to think. Part of me was torn from one side to the other. Even now I am not positive of how I feel.
CanuckCourage, I applaud you for your firm stance and decision. I may not agree with everything you say, but we can agree do disagree, right? I only wish I could be as sure as you.

A few things I would like to get off my chest:

-It angers me when I hear that "Dubya" is finishing what Daddy started. Come on - are we all that stupid to believe that load of hogwash? That has got to be the most immature, childish line of B.S. I have ever heard. Friggin' grade school man! Come on people.
-American media is horrible...no, make that deplorable. I only get highlights from local news and even then I find alternative sources to follow up on what I would like to know, usually from public radio. Cable news only stupifies its viewers. They sit there and absorb the same B.S. every five minutes.
-Saddam must be taken out one way or another.
-I do not know of another way to help guide these people to freedom. If it is something that will work without war, then do it.
-It saddens me to hear that Iraqi troops surrender only to ambush their enemy.
-It saddens me to know that innocent Iraqi civilians have perished from our hands and the hands of their own.
-It makes me sick to think that a soldier can turn on his own brothers and sisters - I do not care or want to hear the reason why. Its wrong.
-North Korea poses more of a problem to the world right know.
-I hope that the media gives out so much information that it backfires on them. If I know that troops are 50 miles Southwest of Baghdad then our enemies know. The less me and you know, the better.
-The U.S. does not want to conquer the world.
-If you are involved in a war rally either for or against it, don't get arrested. It makes your cause look silly.
-Did I hear correctly when some anti-war protestors had a "puke-in"? Are you friggin' kidding me!
-If either side takes POW's, respect them and respect the Geneva Convention. What good does it do to flash bloody images all over the world?
-Take your "shock and awe" and shove it up your ass. If I hear that phrase one more time... Just get the job done and done right and sacrifice as little lives as possible.
-Bush took this one a little too fast, he had better find these weapons he's looking for, 'cause if not, he has some explaining to do.
-I love my country as much as the next law abiding citizen.
-I am so sad and angry over all of this.

Thank you all for listening to my tirade, my intent was not to offend anyone, if I did, I am sorry. I believe that I am entitled to my opinion. Just like everyone else. I think I am going to unplug myself and go about my business for a while. I feel better now.
To leave on a good note and a little off subject, from the master George Carlin: "Everyone ON the plane, get ON the plane. F**k you I'm getting IN the plane."

Chad

[CanuckCourage]

Chad I totally respect everything you had to say , there is nothing worse than holding stuff inside of you . Dialogue is the only way to exchange ideas on what is clearly turning out to be a polarizing conflict. I agree with alot of what you said. My stance has not come easily. I will now ramble off the things that weigh on my mind.
-This war ,to begin with, is Illegal . When Bush decided to go without the UN , Iraq was destroying some of their weapon stores.(Missiles) This was at least a sign of progress and not outward defiance.
-Iraq made no threats to the US verbally or other wise.
-Arab Nations around Iraq didn't consider Saddam a threat.
-Bush Administration claimed that Saddam's Weapons Of Mass Destruction had to be destroyed.Fair enough ! This then changed to Saddam's regime must be removed. Then finally out of the goodness of his heart this had to be done to Liberate the Iraqi people.
-I do not trust governments of any kind. Including my own . History shows of many shady backdoor deals.Governments tend to be self serving. I will take them over a dictator any day.
-The American Administration claiming that Iraq was somehow connected to Al Qaida and Osama Bin Laden is preposterous. Osama has called Hussein an infidel and a "Bad Muslim" . Certainly since Bush has decided to go after Iraq , I would think that whatever rift that existed between Saddam and Bin Laden would have been partially bridged due to their hatred of the West.
-Another claim is that this is preventing the Iraqi Regime from supplying Weapons of Mass Destruction to terrorist organizations .This to me is plausible.
-Due to the unprovoked attack on Iraq this has fuelled and accellerated the hatred towards Americans from Arabs around the World ,the consequences of this will be felt , I feel for generations.
-What was supposedly meant to make America safer , will predictably do the opposite. The 9/11's Terrorists "weapons of mass destruction" consisted of ceramic knives and ingenuity. The Middle East Will see a dramatic rise in the recruiting of terrorists . Al Qaida, Hamas and Hezbollah. I truly fear the consequences of this.
- I think the propaganda in this war is disgusting.CNN and Al Jazeera are equal partners in this self serving hatemongering. CNN thumps their chest in pride showing the great American Machine racing across the desert to Squash the evil Iraqi Regime. Human interest stories of soldiers taken captive . The Iraqis have families as well , but you'd never know it. Al Jazeera showing the civillian deaths as if this was the American plan to come into Iraq and slaughter innocents . Iraqi regime giving tours of the hospital to show the women and children victims , trivializing their true plight.
-The American POW's on TV is disturbing , we see them and can relate to the fear. I feel empathy towards these soldiers. A violation of the Geneva Convention - YES . To be fair so was the coalition video of the Iraqi soldiers surrendering in the firt few days of the aggression. One with his arms tied behind his back and a gun barrel pointing at his head.
- The splintering of Nations from each other and Splintering inside of Countries themselves.
- The civillians of Iraq feel it the worst. Three wars in the last 15yrs , 12yrs of trade sanctions-directly responsible for the deaths of literally thousands of Iraqi children . Imagine being a child and hearing these massive explosions, shaking you're house. I'd imagine you'd fear the night.
-What's to stop India from nuking Pakistan(pre-emptive self defense)(Insert any number of scenarios and countries)
-As far as Iraqi soldiers ambushing Coalition forces ? This is to be expected , with a clearly inferior Army any tactic that will give them the advantage will surely be used . In Iraq this is clearly seen as an Invasion not a Liberation.
-Best case scenario- Short war with minimum loss (on all sides) The tyrant and truly evil Saddam Hussein wiped out forever. Possible democracy taking shape and possibility of other nations in The Middle East following suit . I pray for this.
-I've heard that being a brother to the United States means supporting them unconditionally . To be a true brother you have to tell the truth , no matter how ugly it is . I hope a brother would do that for me.

Enough rambling.Those are some of the things that are swimming in my head. Strictly my opinion and certainly a fraction of what I'm feeling . I ,like you Chad ,feel range of emotions every day, It's like I'm being jerked from one side to the other. Watching what I see as a tragedy unfold is disheartening. I will hope for a happy ending.



Mark

[Beat]

If the reason for this war really is the liberation of the Iraqi people then the US and GB have their work cut out for them. Then they will have to liberate a few dozen african and asian countries as well. Not to mention the US.....where the death penalty still exists........

[jen]

What is wrong with the death penalty?

[dannya2]

Nothing!

[CanuckCourage]

What is wrong with the death penalty?

If the Death Penalty wer'e implemented in Canada people like David Milgaard would have been executed . Pretty hard to justify the death penalty with such an imperfect justice system . The U.S. is no different. What does the death penalty achieve ? The person convicted will never see the light of day again if commuted to a life sentence . The victims cannot be brought back to life. Maybe closure to the victims families? Punishment ? Deterrant ? (there certainly is no evidence of deterrance) The innocent on death row and their families then become victims of murder themselves, State Imposed Murder. Very high price to pay for "JUSTICE". PS : In George W. Bush's 5 year reign as Governor of Texas they executed 130+ people. Some women,some underage and some mentally disabled. Bush cannot be accused of being discriminatory.

[jen]

I can definitely see both sides of opinion on the death penalty. For me, if someone I loved was murdered, and they were guilty without a shadow of a doubt, I would want them to die. But I know that our justice system does have it's flaws, and I would have to be positive of the perpertrator's guilt. Our prisoners are fed 3 times a day, have gyms to work out in, have t.v. to watch and activities to keep them busy. Much more than alot of common citizens have. I know this because 3 of my friends work in prisons. So indeed, I would want their life to be taken, just as they took someone's life.
Once again, just my opinion. Wierd how this thread is turning out
-Jen

[sean.bonner]

It sucks how this thread is five years old.