[Astronaut]

I haven't been a Hip fan for very long, and there's a long story behind that if anyone wants to hear it. But I'm wondering what you guys things of the production standards the Hip use. What album do you think has the best production? Worst production? What album(s) do you find have different or unique production?

(aside - the only Hip I am not familiar with is the very first one and the newest one from 2004)


My favourite "sound" on a Hip album is either "phantom power" or "trouble at the henhouse".

I think the most different or unique production is on "music at work" and "in violet light".


What do you think?

[Chris Tanz]

I know a lot of Hip fans say that Fully Completely sounds overproduced. But I don't know what that means. To me it just sounds good and I can hear things really clearly. Unlike M@W where I just wish Johnny would stop banging the drums so hard and someone would turn up Gord's mic.

I also like Boots or Hearts on UTH, because if you play with the Left/Right Balance you can hear half the band at a time--i.e., you can flip back and forth between Gord, Gord, and Johnny or Gord, Rob, and Paul.

welcome to the forum,
ct

[das_hips]

The Best Production would have to be either Phantom Power or In Between Evolution...

The worst production has got to be Fully Completely... without a doubt...
Everything is to 'cut-and-paste' pretty on the album; if that album was done properly, at least as I see it, it would me more raw, and would emit a 'grunge' vibe...

[Chris Tanz]

^ Q.E.D.

I'm not confessing to know anything about music, but why is it bad that the album sounds polished?

ct

[scottitude]

^ Q.E.D.

I'm not confessing to know anything about music, but why is it bad that the album sounds polished?

ct

That's what I'm talkin' about!
(in my best Napolean Dynamite voice)

[das_hips]

Every album is 'polished', so to speak... but many tracks on Fully Completely could have been so much more... Courage and Pigeon Camera sound the way they should, but Looking For a Place to Happen, Fifty Mission Cap, and Locked in the Trunk of a Car needed more volume, particularly in the rhythm section... maybe I'm the only one, but it just feels too dry to me, and too well placed, poppy in a sense... not enough movement...louder hi-hat for sure on many tracks... the studio versions of We'll Go Too and Wherewithal just seem boring to me...

Every Fully Completely track I hear live is incredible (especially Wherewithal and Fully Completely from LBU)... I just wish it was recorded in studio with the same angst, the same grit... it was polished too far, the producer didn't give enough freedom... it feels too cut and paste to me... like there is no 'jump'... and the hooks on the songs can be seen a mile away...

This is mostly drunken rambling... but I hardly ever listen to Fully Completely... I prefer the live versions of every song on that album... but the exact opposite can be said for Day for Night... I much rather prefer the studio versions of Grace, Too, Greasy Jungle and Nautical Disaster than the live versions anyday... that is why I feel Fully Completely can be considered over-produced...

But I may be alone on this...

[direwolf74]

IBE wins hands down for best production, followed closely by Road Apples, Phantom Power, DFN, and Trouble. Fully Completely is definitely at the bottom of the heap with it's stale, overly-polished sound. The volume is too low, the guitars sound like they've been filtered through an old mattress, and to steal a quote from The Onion, Johnny's drums have that unfortunate "plastic spork hitting mashed potatoes" sound. As mentioned above, that entire album was done by cutting and pasting. In an interview a few years back, Gord Sinclair mentioned that none of the band members were ever in the same room together during recording. The drums were recorded first, while the guitars, bass, and vocals were all recorded separately and layered over top of one another. The Hip are NOT a studio band, and in my opinion they should never be recorded in that fashion. They've always been a "live" band in the truest sense of the word. Thankfully Adam Kasper knew how to capture that on IBE. When I heard that they were planning on making another record with him, I was ecstatic. Hopefully this is the beginning of a long and beautiful partnership.

My friend and I were talking about this exact topic the other day, and we both agreed that another guy the Hip should try working with in the future is Ian Blurton. I'm a big fan of his work as a producer as well as a musician. Much like Adam Kasper, he really knows how to capture the raw energy of a live band in the studio. His recent work with the Weakerthans and the Lowest of the Low is testament to that.

[direwolf74]

I much rather prefer the studio versions of Grace, Too, Greasy Jungle and Nautical Disaster than the live versions anyday.

Really? I think the live versions of those songs absolutely destroy their studio counterparts. The live versions have more edge, more bite, more "umph". The performances are always so powerful. And then to top it all off you get Gord's crazy rants, particularly during Grace and Nautical.

[go(r)d]

How come nobody has said ROAD APPLES has the best production?? My gawd it just EXPLODES out of the speakers! The guitar is so raw, so powerful, it sounds exactly the opposite of the over-produced album that followed it.

Road Appels is probably my favourite production job of any album in my collection. Everything about it sounds perfect, just five guys, their guitars and bottle of whiskey.

[Astronaut]

When I first heard "in violet light" I was completely taken by the production on that one. It's crisp but has higher treble and more high end noise. Whereas early '90s Hip always had a thick backbone. I'm not saying IVL is lifeless or weak, it's just mixed or recorded in a way that make the higher end of their sound come to the forefront.

I'm going to have to listen to "fully completely" more and much more closely. I haven't noticed a lot of what you guys have said about it.

[direwolf74]

When I first heard "in violet light" I was completely taken by the production on that one. It's crisp but has higher treble and more high end noise. Whereas early '90s Hip always had a thick backbone. I'm not saying IVL is lifeless or weak, it's just mixed or recorded in a way that make the higher end of their sound come to the forefront.

I've heard a lot of people complain about the production on IVL before, but I've always defended Hugh Padgham's work on that album. I think it's one of their better sounding recordings. I agree the sound is very crisp (especially the drums), and you can't feel the bottom end as much as previous albums, but there's nothing wrong with bringing out a little more of the high end. I also stand by my opinion that IVL features Gord's best vocal performance in the studio to date. His voice is a little more subdued and controlled, but I think it suits the material perfectly.

[ontheverge]

Production??

I like an earthy, grainy feel - PP got pretty close. MAW was too slick for my tastes. IVL sounds great. DFN was heavy bottom for a Hip record, at least on my system, sounded killer; still does. RA is second best in my opinion productionwise - nice and raw sounding. FC is slick, but all the songs slay ..so that makes up for it...

LBU?? I love it..but I just wish the guitars were LOUDER.

[emperor penguin]

welcome to the forum ontheverge. I like the production of IVL but would have to say that PP is the best.

[The Horrible Esthete]

^ Q.E.D.

I'm not confessing to know anything about music, but why is it bad that the album sounds polished?

ct

It's not, Chris. If you like the way it sounds in comparison to your other musical recordings, then that's all that matters, isn’t it? ‘Production quality’ can sometimes be a tradeoff - EQ levels can be adjusted in a way that may emphasize certain sounds during recording or mixing at the expense of de-emphasizing other sounds; thus, it’s up to the producer to decide which combination of levels produce the “most desireable” overall effect, and simply put, that decision is rather subjective.

Hip fans seem to direct most production-related criticisms at Fully Completely, primarily because it constitutes a distinctively different feel than the other records in the band’s catalogue. The midrange frequencies have clearly been suppressed, while levels at the ‘top end’ of the frequency spectrum are accentuated - this can reduce some of the “noise” (unwanted sound) in a recording, and can make certain elements, like vocals for example, sound more smooth and silky. On FC, this approach helps bring out certain affects in the guitars, too....Rob’s Strat sounds fantastic on this record, IMO.

But the absence of those midrange sounds can leave something to be desired for some listeners, and I think you can see by other fans’ responses here what it is they feel is lacking without that midrange - things like “energy”, “grit”, “rawness”, etc. That’s because a lot of the qualities we associate with ‘power’ are found in the lower frequencies rather than the higher ones. If you notice, the drums on FC sound very “tinny” or even slightly muted. This is one of the sacrifices of choosing to de-emphasize lower frequencies. The gain in terms of the cleanliness of the guitars, the silky smoothness of the vocals, and the little-to-non-existent background noise comes at the expense of flatness, lack of dynamics and raw energy, or maybe “emptiness” or “hollowness”.

I must side with go®d on this one - for MY money, Road Apples (and IBE too, I suppose) seem to have the balance that best captures the dynamic range of this band....but that’s just my personal preference.

[conradjosepi]

First off; my definition of "best production". That is a quality that most people would never agree on. To me, it's about the individuality of the whole work and how it stands on it's own. It's easy to give too much weight on comparisons to other albums by the same band or others. If you're a trained studio engineer or producer, there are rules and guidelines that are to be followed - and I think with the common personality type of these professions, it's is very difficult to ignore these rules and guidelines. Personally, I like to hear them take risks and throw out the rules.

Case-in-point "Day for Night". (My favorite production) I would give my left arm to know what went on during the production of that album. It breaks all of the rules. It is a huge change in sound and quality from the previous and subsequent albums. The album has a palpable dark sound to it. I have to wonder if the album was named after the product or the other way around. I have never heard drums that sound that way on another album. You can hear the phase-cancellation of badly placed mics on the drums. The cymbals sound like breaking glass. The volume of the drums alone is wild and dynamic, with very little (if any) compression at all. The lead vocals have a very hollow sound to them, while his crazy harmonies sound crisper than usual. It was also the first time they departed to their rule of guitar1 left channel and guitar 2 right channel, which I loved....All in all, nothing by the Hip or any other band sounds like Day for Night. And of course, it contains the delectably linear "Nautical Disaster" which brought tears to my eyes when I heard it the first time.

I think that IBE and Violet Light are tied for "Best Production" in my mind. It is definitely more suited for "the masses" and the mixing is phenomenal on both. "Worst Production" (having to choose one sucks) would have to be Henhouse....It sounds very forced, even though the guitar sound on Gift Shop is soooooo cool the way it is just barely breaking up, on the cusp of being distorted. Now I'm really getting picky.....

Nice thread, I enjoyed it!