12-10-2004, 05:53 PM
I'm a newb and I thought this would be the best place to ask this question about that part in Bobcaygeon.
Gaston
Gaston
What happened "That night in Toronto?"
12-10-2004, 06:04 PM
lots of ridin' on horseback and keepin order restored, til the men they couldn't hang, stepped to the mic and ang, and their voices rang with that arian twang :lol:!
12-10-2004, 06:26 PM
Dang, does anybody know if Gord wrote it after a true event? I know he does that, so I'm guessing it happened.
Gaston
Gaston
12-10-2004, 07:04 PM
Well, no Hip song is of course just about one thing, but I think the "event" behind Bobcaygeon is the Christie Pitts riot in Toronto in 1933: Aryan twangs in Toronto.
A good, if not scholarly, overview is here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_08.12.93/NEWS/nv0812a.htm">http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_08.1 ... v0812a.htm</a><!-- m -->
Lots has been written about the events and anti-semitism in Toronto The Good.
This is what I occured to me as soon as I heard the song, but the Guthrie reference in the video also takes us back to the 1930s, so it seems to fit.
No idea about the more personal aspects of the song (which in fact make up almost all of it), but that's my take on "that night in Toronto."
A good, if not scholarly, overview is here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_08.12.93/NEWS/nv0812a.htm">http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_08.1 ... v0812a.htm</a><!-- m -->
Lots has been written about the events and anti-semitism in Toronto The Good.
This is what I occured to me as soon as I heard the song, but the Guthrie reference in the video also takes us back to the 1930s, so it seems to fit.
No idea about the more personal aspects of the song (which in fact make up almost all of it), but that's my take on "that night in Toronto."
12-10-2004, 07:30 PM
Check this thread...
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hipbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1481&highlight=bobcaygeon">http://www.hipbase.com/forum/viewtopic. ... bobcaygeon</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hipbase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1481&highlight=bobcaygeon">http://www.hipbase.com/forum/viewtopic. ... bobcaygeon</a><!-- m -->
12-10-2004, 08:00 PM
Wow, thanks guys. 
Joanie, it seems to me from that article that Gord might be either referring to the '93 clash or the '33 clash. What makes you suppose it is either?
Gaston
Joanie, it seems to me from that article that Gord might be either referring to the '93 clash or the '33 clash. What makes you suppose it is either?Gaston
12-10-2004, 08:02 PM
I suppose my next question would be...why the heck is that in Bobcaygeon?
12-10-2004, 09:00 PM
GastonCanuck Wrote:I suppose my next question would be...why the heck is that in Bobcaygeon?
Rhymes with Constellation?
12-10-2004, 09:12 PM
GastonCanuck Wrote:Wow, thanks guys.
Well, of course I'm not really sure. The more significant riot in 1993 was actually a confrontation in Ottawa rather than the Toronto troubles the Eye piece references (it's a local Toronto rag). Christie Pits thus seems more likely to be the subject of the song. It's also just a more significant event and is seen as the height of mainstream hostility towards Jews in Canada, coinciding as it did with Hitler's rise to power and fairly widespread "fasionable fascism." The Guthrie reference in the video seems to ask us to think back, but that again could just be drawing parallels rather than actually directly referencing the (more distant) past.
All that being said, it could be both, either, or neither, and I'm OK with that.
12-10-2004, 09:23 PM
...oh, and as to why Bobcaygeon?: Beats me. I bet not many people thought "Bobcaygeon" would ever be tossed into a song, let alone such a big hit. If I were from there, I'd be pretty pleased...
12-10-2004, 09:53 PM
Here's my theory on Bobcaygeon; I was reading a book this past summer about how the Nazi Party came to power(cant remember the title off the top of my head) and it struck me that the Nazi's were very popular in the small towns and cities of Germany(something like 80-90 percent support) and they gained that support by striking fear in the hearts of these townspeople about the crazy ideas of the big cities and how they would protect them..my guess is that Gord put Bobcaygeon in the song because its a symbol of the small town...peaceful and quiet but with the potential to support murderous thugs who take advantage of their provinicialism.
12-10-2004, 10:39 PM
I don't believe Bobcaygeon necessarily refers to any specific event.
On one level, it is a fairly simple question of whether to throw in the towel and quit or go on, the pastoral quiet of Bobcaygeon vs. Toronto. Could be more artistic navel-gazing from GD with the reference to the Men They Couldn't Hang.
On another level, and with the "keeping order restored" and "Aryan twang" bits, it does seem to refer to Nazism, and the 1933 riot and 1993 incident both could apply -- or it could be about a fantasy event. GD could have made specific references if he chose to, but he didn't, so it is fair to assume that he did not intend the song to be tied to a specific event. (Nautical disaster is similar.)
Introducing the song in London last month GD asked whether you like your evil out in the open or just under the surface, which with the Nazi references seems to allude to the Bobcaygeon vs. Toronto thing. This gives you another level, where it ceases to be just about a cop throwing in the towel, but about the temptation to pretend that evil does not exist. On the other hand, the constellations are revealing themselves; can you pretend the truth isn't there?
GD has written several lyrics referring to Nazism. Scared is the obvious one. Fire in the Hole and Springtime in Vienna are less obvious. There are probably a couple of others.
Edited to add: sorry, violetrightheron, didn't read your whole post. The small town with evil just under the surface rather than the big city with it out in the open is I think very much a part of it.
On one level, it is a fairly simple question of whether to throw in the towel and quit or go on, the pastoral quiet of Bobcaygeon vs. Toronto. Could be more artistic navel-gazing from GD with the reference to the Men They Couldn't Hang.
On another level, and with the "keeping order restored" and "Aryan twang" bits, it does seem to refer to Nazism, and the 1933 riot and 1993 incident both could apply -- or it could be about a fantasy event. GD could have made specific references if he chose to, but he didn't, so it is fair to assume that he did not intend the song to be tied to a specific event. (Nautical disaster is similar.)
Introducing the song in London last month GD asked whether you like your evil out in the open or just under the surface, which with the Nazi references seems to allude to the Bobcaygeon vs. Toronto thing. This gives you another level, where it ceases to be just about a cop throwing in the towel, but about the temptation to pretend that evil does not exist. On the other hand, the constellations are revealing themselves; can you pretend the truth isn't there?
GD has written several lyrics referring to Nazism. Scared is the obvious one. Fire in the Hole and Springtime in Vienna are less obvious. There are probably a couple of others.
Edited to add: sorry, violetrightheron, didn't read your whole post. The small town with evil just under the surface rather than the big city with it out in the open is I think very much a part of it.
12-12-2004, 03:56 PM
4. In Nazism and neo-Nazism, a non-Jewish Caucasian, especially one of Nordic type, supposed to be part of a master race. (<!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dictionary.com">www.dictionary.com</a><!-- w -->)
If you go to: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Aryan">http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Aryan</a><!-- m -->
it will give you "world history" on the word.
If you go to: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Aryan">http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Aryan</a><!-- m -->
it will give you "world history" on the word.
12-13-2004, 04:45 AM
the horsehsoe tavern in toronto claims to be the "checker board floors" Gord is singing about (or so they say). also, Men They COuldn't Hang play there often. That's the literal part of the meaning, as I see it, so tie it with the eye mag article and u might have something.
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