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Good topic. I think patriotism is like any other idea that, in the wrong hands and used for the wrong purpose, can lead to conflict, destruction and other problems. But, at the same time, it is a necessary idea that helps bind a country together and gives it a sense of purpose. I hate to sound cynically but "citizen of the world" is a little too abstract to formulate guidelines and common purposes. There is a fine line between being proud of what your country stands for and loving your country beyond all logical reason.
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I predict that this thread will get shut down at some point. i just want to be the guy that called it at the beginning.
Personally, i dont feel that the common feeling is one of superiority, but rather canadians are proud of everything that canada stands for (diversity, social programs, etc.).
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I'd agree with VioletlightHeron; it's a fine line.
I am thankful that I was born in this country (Canada, because I know this forum isn't filled with just Canadians). There are alot of other countries who are really worse off. But I wouldn't root for Canada at the olympics and then hate Spain for winning or anything like that. See, it's a fine line. I'm proud of what my country stands for on a global comparison, what my country has done, but I'm not proud just because I was born here.
Think about it for a minute; how many of you would be proud of someone who did something great if they were from your native soil as opposed to elsewhere? Say someone found a cure for cancer and they were Canadian and we were Canadian. We would probably feel a certain amount of pride that it was a Canadian who finally did it. But if it was an American and we were still Canadian, we probably wouldn't be proud of them. We might be happy and we might even be proud of the human race in general for finally beating cancer but we wouldn't be proud of the individual themself.
I don't think this thread will be locked if we don't resort to petty arguing or insults. I think it may be moved due to the lack of actual Tragically Hip content possible for such a topic. But back to the Hip, there was that letter that some dude came on and posted here because Gord said something along the lines of "Patriotism" being "a form of racism". Don't quote me on that cuz I don't know exactly how Gord said it but I somewhat agree.
Patriotism is essenstially "pride for the country" and terrorism, on the opposite end of the spectrum, would be "disgust for the country". In a round-about-no-basis-for-fact-discussion, we could say because there's "pride" there's "disgust", because there's "love" there's "hate", because there's "peace" there's "war", and that neither could exist without the other. But this is bull I'm spinning.
Would I kill for my country? It would depend on what the war was being fought for. In the case of Third Reich, I would've agreed that it would've needed to be stopped and I would've fought against them. But say there's a war and it's for something stupid that you don't agree with? Would you still fight for your country? Of course not.
In a sense, what Gord probably meant is not "all-purpose patriotism" but the type that is misconceived, that the country you were born in is the best. Patriotism is, in a sense a form of racism. Not in the broad "I hate all other countries except mine" but if you feel pride for being a certain thing, citizen of this or that, then, by default, you are proud of everything about that, whatever it may be. And when you feel pride for something and someone comes along and destroys it, bad-mouths it, or feels pride in something that goes against it, wars start.
On the flipside, how many people are proud of their heritage, not just their country, but their roots? Italian, Scottish, Dutch, Native Canadian, etc? I feel a certain pride in my Scottish/Native roots... everybody probably feels this pride when referring to where they have come from. I wouldn't say it's "wrong". Just like we want to know about our ancestors, our family we never met, our father's fathers' fathers'... you know? It gives us a sense of our identity; who we are by who they were.
At its essence, difference is the cause for wars or arguments. Either opinion, technique, or whatever, when two different opinions collide, we question what we are proud of. In the case of opinions, it is our freedom to know, to form opinions, to have an opinion on some point or another and when someone disagrees, then we'll have ourselves a war.
Now, not to start a war; I just woke up and started typing the hell out of this thread. It is entirely too long and pointless. So please someone let me know if there's a fault in my reasoning or if I'm flat-out daft.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this topic been beaten to death multi times in the past?
:what
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I think Gord summed up his thoughts about "nationalism" (Which has to be seperated from "Patriotism") on Musique Plus back in the day:
Paraphrasing: "There is a middle ground between "what's wrong with us?" and blind flag-waving, and I think most people occupy that middle ground."
Pride, when you can cite legitimate reasons for having such pride, is great. When it becomes "Us vs Them" and every reason begins with "Compared to the Yanks we..." is a cop-out, ignorant response based on an inferiority complex.
I happen to believe, for a plethora of reasons that don't start with "Compared to them..." that I live in one of the greatest nation-states on earth.
And ya know what, I think every Canadian, American, Swede and Aussie should feel the same way. We've all got it pretty good, and we can't let the narcisism of small differences obscure the fact that people are starving to death (Actually think about that process...) right now. When flag waving obscures that fact and pits everybody in different camps... it's "nationalism" gone astray.
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hang on, hang on ... let me get this straight?? The Hip are from Canada??
CT
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The Darkest Canuck Wrote:...long story short, i made it to the ACC in my Team Canada jersey and hat, we won, and i like to think that the hip had a small hand in the victory 
.
Pretty thin. But, an amazing story no less!!
Jeff
June 21, 2003 Toronto, ON: SkyDome
July 1, 2004 Toronto, ON: Molson Amphitheatre
November 26, 2004 Toronto, ON: Air Canada Centre
June 24, 2006 Toronto, ON: Historic Fort York
May 10, 2007 Indianapolis, IN: The Vogue
July 14, 2011 Edmonton, AB: Northlands Festival Site
June 30, 2012 Niagara-on-the-Lake, ON: The Commons at Butler's Barracks
January 23, 2013 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
July 28, 2016 Edmonton, AB: Rexall Place
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I've always wondered what the band thought, not necessarily of the obvious nationalism that manifests at the shows, but the fact that fans will follow them south of the border, and let it be very well known where they are from. Maybe they feel it hinders their ability to grow as a band to fans who aren't accustomed to them? Instead of, "Oh, have you heard about that band, The Targically Hip, they're incredible live" it becomes "Have you heard about that band from Canada?" and from there, it simply becomes a label. True, this topic has been beaten to death, for years, but you have to wonder after all these years if they ever feel like ditching their heritage, as harsh as that sounds?
Escape Is At Hand-Tales of a Boy and a Band due June 2013 from Eternal Cavalier Press
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I can't say I understand why this would be an issue, especially if the Hip are playing in Canada. I think despite Gord's comments on patriotism, he's probably proud to be Canadian. If he sees someone in the crowd waving the flag, he might just be likely to think that he's made a connection with that fan, which is the whole idea if I'm not mistaken.
In general no one has to worry about Canadians being overly patriotic... if anything it's the opposite, we're not patriotic enough. How often do Canadians not express pride for the good things their country or some of their citizens do? Many times with performers we bury them unless they make it big in the US. I'm not saying we should go to the extremes that some people do in other countries, but I think we could all do with a little more flag-waving in Canada.
As for me, I have a Team Canada jersey (with The Hip and number 1 on the back! :thumb: ). Would I wear that if I saw them play in the US? It depends, but most likely not. But, at the Toronto show I will be wearing it with pride. :thumb:
Just my two cents.
