[Graham]

I remember some time ago in what ended up being quite the discussion thread, that the question or possibility of The Hip including a bonus track(s) on their next album was raised.

I always will argue that bonus tracks are not the way to go. They are nothing more than a marketing tool to get more people to buy the album, for tracks that had one of two fates: a) they should have been included in the album anyway and without bonus tracks, or b) they were B-side material at best. All included under the guise of "bonus" as an attempt to get the consumer to feel like they are getting more of a "bargain" for their purchase of a CD.

Maybe the bonus tracks are offered at an exclusive deal with Best Buy or something. Or iTunes. Either way, the finished album represents an unfinished product. There are multiple versions, sometimes, different bonus tracks at different places. How is the fan to choose, without purchasing all versions anyway? Which is the "real" version of the album?

After all, aren't real albums art? Dark Side of the Moon doesn't come in three flavours. Albums now that may have merit to be phenomenal records are squandered by the "bonus track."

I make my case for the unfinished album here, in this post with a very recent and high-profile release.

The Killers released Day and Age. Not surprisingly, like Sam's Town, was released with bonus tracks. But Day and Age was released with only TEN songs. And two bonus tracks. This brings our total track count to 12, which, if those tracks had not been bonus tracks, would be approximately the standard album length. The only way you can get all 12 songs is if you purchase the complete album for an ass-raping 12 dollars on iTunes. And you know what, ten songs is fine, and could possibly make for a really solid album. Not knocking the ten-track album here. These two bonus tracks are available on iTunes...BUT...if you are from iTunes Canada or US, you are able to purchase a THIRD bonus track.

(Are Canadian and US consumers more important? Why are we "eligible" for an extra track? I'm pretty sure that the Killers are bigger in the UK than they are over here on their home turf. )

This comes across as nothing more than a marketing scheme, to me anyway, to get more people to purchase the album at full price. Same goes for the "pre order bonus track," to get you to plunk down your cash and commit yourself before the album even comes out.

At least do what Trent Reznor does, if you have extra material, give it to your fans directly. Don't make them choose, which version to buy, which version to steal, make them preorder digital albums to get a "special bonus track." Put it up on the website for all to just...download.

As a fan, of any band, I would rather the band put out ONE version, a finished, complete version of their record, than be panhandled for an extra couple bucks for supposed "bonus tracks."

If I were a Killers fan, I would be dissapointed, perhaps even angered, at a 10-track album with three bonus tracks.

As the Tragically Hip fan I am, I would definitely feel ripped off if a similar stunt was pulled. With a new album on the forseeable horizon, I can only hope that I am not confronted with having to purchase a CD, and then having to decide if I should put money down on iTunes for extra tracks, or go and download the extra tracks I would feel entitled to.

[borgs]

After all, aren't real albums art?

this could be an argument in favor of bonus tracks (as long as they're not tacked on the end of the actual album). sometimes good tunes come out of recording sessions that, for whatever reason, just don't fit on the album. tunes that deserve to be heard but would change the dynamic of the album for the worse.

[Roy-at-tth]

Ie - forests edge or night is forgetting.

[tth_fan]

Problem Bears, and I would love Radio Show to be a bonus track, too.

[screw_ball]

Yeah, bonus tracks are really lame and multiple versions with different bonus tracks are nothing but a stupid cash grab... I'm glad none of the bands I like do that. Bonus tracks do have a place sometimes, though. Reissues, vinyl issues, deluxe editions, greatest hits... I'm not against that at all, as long as the content is worth it. I mean, I could have bought YF and That Night in Toronto separately but Hipeponymous was a good deal. The bonus material was worth it. Sure, I could have bought the awesome Tunes of Two Cities/The Big Bubble double feature that The Residents put out a few yeas ago but instead I tracked down a copy of the original CD issue because of the amazing bonus tracks it has, otherwise only available on a rare and expensive 7". If it's just some lame song that didn't make the cut for the album, I agree with you but a lot of musicians tack on some amazing and rare stuff for reissues.

So it's not all bad.

[EricW]

I think bringing up the killers in this case is a good point for the argument, having certain content only available to some, is down right...capitalist. no band or artist should be out for materialism, this kind of tactic belongs only in a Wal-Mart, where if you pay a dollar more you get more for less, and they make huge money off siphoning these extra dollars from the public.
im very happy with bands like radiohead who have started the trend of just giving there music away, and the hip as well don't seem to ever put us in a position to siphon the change out of our pockets. its suppose to be a message, you want to get as many people to hear it as possible.
I think if your paying a dollar more for a song that wouldn't be included unless you pay, is the wrong message, these people arn't artists, there salesmen, no better then the guy answering your call when you order from Pizza Pizza.

[Tthip]

I think bringing up the killers in this case is a good point for the argument, having certain content only available to some, is down right...capitalist. no band or artist should be out for materialism

The bonus tracks from In Between Evolution are still not available outside of Canada.

[daylight]

At least do what Trent Reznor does, if you have extra material, give it to your fans directly. Don't make them choose, which version to buy, which version to steal, make them preorder digital albums to get a "special bonus track." Put it up on the website for all to just...download.

Right, because Trent never released three different versions of the Fragile and roughly 1000 different versions of With Teeth. I would think that "bonus track" decisions have far more to do with the label than the band. If it bugs you that much, just buy one version and *gasp* illegally download the rest.

iTunes preorder-only tracks do make me extremely angry, though. I hate that shit.

[Graham]

At least do what Trent Reznor does, if you have extra material, give it to your fans directly. Don't make them choose, which version to buy, which version to steal, make them preorder digital albums to get a "special bonus track." Put it up on the website for all to just...download.

Right, because Trent never released three different versions of the Fragile and roughly 1000 different versions of With Teeth. I would think that "bonus track" decisions have far more to do with the label than the band. If it bugs you that much, just buy one version and *gasp* illegally download the rest.

iTunes preorder-only tracks do make me extremely angry, though. I hate that shit.

I suppose I may have to concede my Trent Reznor point. I know Fragile was, but was Teeth after or before his label contract ended? I was trying to illustrate more the path he has taken after his contract was up, the "anti-label" path.

And as far as downloading the rest goes, THATS my point. I shouldn't HAVE to. I mean, isn't this whole "downloading is stealing" crap and labels suing people who download music, the closure of Napster, the persecution of those who don't pay for music, the shutdown of trading sites, isn't the point to get people to PAY for music? So how then, in the miniscule minds of label executives and board members, is putting out multiple versions and bonus tracks of all sorts, going to keep me from downloading? I, the fan, the consumer, only want to pay once, and that is exactly what I will do, and download the tracks that are not included with whatever package I may choose to purchase.

And that brings me back to my original post...just make one album, and make it complete.

I guess here, on this forum, we're all going to make the case for our favourite excluded B-sides over the years. But this can just be given to us. The Hip can release their album, and say hey you know that one other track wasn't that bad, how bout we give it to our fans? After all the fans are going to be the only ones who really appreciate these tracks.

By putting them up as bonus tracks for everyone and multiple iTunes versions, they lose luster. I don't give two craps, theyre "bonus tracks," but now everyone has bonus tracks so they aren't really bonus at all, theyre probably garbage. I think the mentality changes, from when it's a bonus track, to it being given to you. If it's a bonus track you will probably think "meh," but if it's given to you, from the artist to the fan as material that didn't make the final cut, it might seem amazing.

Yikes I certainly didn't mean to write so much

[daylight]

Let's not forget that "limited edition" version of the Slip, either. Or the "ultra special $300 version" of Ghosts. Oh, Trent.

I had a lot of bonus track angst over a few releases last year, notable the new QOTSA album. It seemed that every store around had a different version of the album, each with its own bonus track(s). Frankly that kind of thing discourages me from buying the disc, because no matter which one I buy it's incomplete. In the end I just downloaded them all and burned a "complete" version for myself. Minus one sale for being assholes - maybe they'll learn (but probably not). I'm not too concerned about the Hip doing anything similar, but I guess you never know.

They should really throw together a b-side collection one of these years, though.

[MattyM]

Let's not forget that "limited edition" version of the Slip, either. Or the "ultra special $300 version" of Ghosts. Oh, Trent.

I had a lot of bonus track angst over a few releases last year, notable the new QOTSA album. It seemed that every store around had a different version of the album, each with its own bonus track(s). Frankly that kind of thing discourages me from buying the disc, because no matter which one I buy it's incomplete. In the end I just downloaded them all and burned a "complete" version for myself. Minus one sale for being assholes - maybe they'll learn (but probably not). I'm not too concerned about the Hip doing anything similar, but I guess you never know.

They should really throw together a b-side collection one of these years, though.

It's very common for UK releases of major label artist's albums to have "bonus tracks" (which are usually crap) to offset the fact that prices here have always been pretty high.

[screw_ball]

Let's not forget that "limited edition" version of the Slip, either. Or the "ultra special $300 version" of Ghosts. Oh, Trent.

Yeah, because Trent Reznor doesn't release all of his post-Interscope albums online either for free or for a negligible fee (5 bucks for 4 EPs), frequently release multitracks of his songs for fans to play around with and remix, "leak" new tracks all the time back when he was on a label, often update his site personally (something The Hip don't even do) with news straight from the source and messages to his fans, and even get enraged about foreign countries ripping off his fans by gouging CD prices, encouraging them to pirate his music.

Yeah. Trent's in it for the money.

[chris]

Let's not forget that "limited edition" version of the Slip, either. Or the "ultra special $300 version" of Ghosts. Oh, Trent.

Yeah, because Trent Reznor doesn't release all of his post-Interscope albums online either for free or for a negligible fee (5 bucks for 4 EPs), frequently release multitracks of his songs for fans to play around with and remix, "leak" new tracks all the time back when he was on a label, often update his site personally (something The Hip don't even do) with news straight from the source and messages to his fans, and even get enraged about foreign countries ripping off his fans by gouging CD prices, encouraging them to pirate his music.

Yeah. Trent's in it for the money.

If he wasn't a millionaire, I wonder what his attitude would be....

[screw_ball]

I see your point, but how many other millionaire musicians have the same mindset as him? How many give back to their fans like he does? Most musicians I know who do this much for their fans are much smaller, usually very independent bands who do a lot of the recording/booking/pressing either DIY or on a much lower budget. Still, I think the fact that he's a millionaire and has this attitude speaks volumes because most rich musicians are content with their money and only go so far as to please their fans musically, usually having zero communication with them and their idea of a "gift" to the fans is posting a 30 second clip of a new single a week before it gets released.

[Corpse]

My friend is in a band. They have 10+ albums out. It's not thier call usually for the bonus tracks. Most bands have different labels/distribution for different countries (ie: N. America vs Europe). Japan always wants extra tracks that they can't get around the rest of the world. They (record comps) want to feel they have the power over the artist and want to make thier buyers in that country feel special, like they are doing this just for them when it all comes down the the record company. If the band wants to put something out, at times thier hands are tied.

Lemmy said it best about re-issues too. If the songs wern't good enough the first time, why have all this extra crap on the record to dupe the fans. And his labels have put out a ton of re-siues and comps and they (Motorhead) have no control over it.