[chris]

In your argument, can we substitute smoking for singingg?

Are you suggesting that "smoking" can prevent one from hearing TTH perform 38 Years Old?

I really don't see how smoke can be louder than the stage amplification system.

Not at all... it's just that much of what you said applies for smokers and non-smokers:

To those of you who have berated me for expressing my aversion to your rudeness and lack of consideration for others: check yourself. Not only is his point completely valid, but have you considered why you feel justified in degrading the experience of your fellow paying patrons with your stinky, cancer causing contributions? Better yet, have you even asked yourself why you even smoke, and not just quietly by yourself, in the privacy of your home??

Yeah, yeah, yeah - you'll insist on some bullshit rationalization that you do it because "it makes you feel good", and that it's "an anticipated part of the concert experience" but I contest that.

[The Horrible Esthete]

C'mon Chris.... that's taking it a little too far.....

Yes, you can extrapolate what I said and apply it to a smoking / nonsmoking issue, but you are ignoring the context as it relates to Steve's point, which is that loud singing affects a fellow concertgoer's right and ability to physically hear the performance.

Now maybe I should've chosen words and phrases that precisely targeted noise inteference and disruption of the AURAL perceptioninstead of using language that could be applied to general "disturbances", but I wasn't anticipating having my words taken out of context.

Look, I, you, WE ALL must tolerate some behaviors and practices that are common to most any crowd which might distract us or have a negative impact on the overall experience - like smoking, bumping, pushing, puking, spilling, etc.

But consciously and voluntarily commiting acts which directly conflict with other consumers' ability to "use" the "product" they have paid for (i.e., to see and hear a performance) is where i believe it is justified to show an intolerance.

I constantly get beer spilled all over me at Hip shows, and I don't like that one bit. But it's a concert, and it goes with the territory. I can still hear Gord's vocals and Bobby's guitar with Moosehead on my shirt.

When some dork behind me is screaming ABAC like some crazed schoolgirl into my ear, I can't hear shit.

[chris]

I guess I forgot to mention that I hate the singing crowd as well and agree with you. As a fan, and moreso as a taper, the crowd singers really degrade my concert going experience.

I understand the context of your argument, and I wasn't trying to break it down; rather point out that along with unrequested crowd sing-a-longs, smoking drives me nuts at concerts.

[trevor]

When some dork behind me is screaming ABAC like some crazed schoolgirl into my ear, I can't hear shit.

And at that point, you can exercise your right at a general admission concert to move somewhere where that person is not screaming in your ear. Or like I mentioned in an earlier post, wear earplugs. It is amazing what frequencies those babies can eliminate!

[Jenna_Bird]

When some dork behind me is screaming ABAC like some crazed schoolgirl into my ear, I can't hear shit.

Next time, I'll try to quiet down a bit. Sorry.

Seriously though, I have to come to Steve and Esthete's defense; not because of personal sentiments, but because I feel that what they have to say is valid and has a point.

When you go to a show to hear the band, that's exactly what you want to hear. When people make that next to impossible, it sucks. I, for one, don't travel great distances and spend cash I don't really have to hear some asshole scream along out of key. I understand passion, excitement and anticipation, especially when it comes to the hip. However, I think it is necessary to take into account how my/your/our behavior will impact those around me/you/us. I would never purposely step on someone, drench them in beer or blow smoke in their face. The same should be said for the ability to hear the show.

Oh. Cpt. Trips -- spell check is a wonderful thing. I promise.

-Jenna

[The Horrible Esthete]

And at that point, you can exercise your right at a general admission concert to move somewhere where that person is not screaming in your ear.

Well, I guess that's why I'm defending Steve's point of view here.

We're all there to watch and listen to a concert, right? In my humble opinion, those who want to do just that shouldn't have to locate / situate themselves around those who want to treat it as something other than that [namely karyoke night or a sing-along].

[trevor]

Well, I guess that's why I'm defending Steve's point of view here.

We're all there to watch and listen to a concert, right? In my humble opinion, those who want to do just that shouldn't have to locate / situate themselves around those who want to do something other than that, namely treat it like it's their own personal karyoke night or a sing-along, as Steve put it.

I pay The Hip to listen to The Hip play. Am I crazy for assuming that the people standing next to me did exactly the same, not to hear ME sing along with The Hip?

No I don't necessarily think you are crazy. I stated in an earlier post that Steve's opinion is his opinion. I can't fault him because I don't agree with him. There are some instances when I do agree with you (and Steve). I go to these shows with my best friend. He likes to video tape these shows. I like to sing along. I respect his right to video tape and so I don't sing along when we sit/stand beside each other. I can do that. On this past Saturday night however, I stood about 10 feet in front of him and off to the side so that I could sing along and it wouldn't affect his recording. It's a give and take relationship.

I remember one of the first Hip concerts I went to, it was a great show. One moment in particular that I will always remember was when the band played ABAC and I couldn't hear Gord because of the crowd singing along. Since we were two rows from the very top at MLG, we could see the entire building and it was just lit with lighters. It was magical!

So I think that when you are at a concert, you have to remember that everyone there paid the exact same amount for the tickets that you purchased (within reason) and what they choose to use that time for is there own business. Much like it is yours to use the time you have paid for to do what you want to do. Again, it is a give and take relationship.

I am not naive enough to say to you there is an easy answer here. But I do think that concerts are public events which will always have something that you don't like about it. But it will also have a lot of things you do like about it and for that reason alone you will keep going to them.

[nois]

The Horrible Esthete, dude, you are an angry fella. For you to go off like that on 1 or 2 people for singing, is just not right. You hear a song for the first time in 12 years, and you're half lit, it's second nature to sing along, and as for being quiet, if 3000 others are singing louder, then I'm gonna get louder too. I F'N love it!!! Your anger needs to be channelled into something productive......... like a nice canoe weekend, some rowing, maybe a shore lunch, and a visit from the locals.................... in the mountains of west virginia, SQEAL BOY!!!!!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[The Horrible Esthete]

I am not naive enough to say to you there is an easy answer here. But I do think that concerts are public events which will always have something that you don't like about it. But it will also have a lot of things you do like about it and for that reason alone you will keep going to them.

I see your point, and agree that there is a certain level of give / take, but again, my point is that the line of tolerance is crossed when one's actions prohibit another's ability to use a product or service as intended. Do you agree with that?

It's a matter of simple human decency and respect for other people.

[nois]

IT'S A ROCK CONCERT.................................................................

[The Horrible Esthete]

The Horrible Esthete, dude, you are an angry fella. For you to go off like that on 1 or 2 people for singing, is just not right. You hear a song for the first time in 12 years, and you're half lit, it's second nature to sing along, and as for being quiet, if 3000 others are singing louder, then I'm gonna get louder too. I F'N love it!!! Your anger needs to be channelled into something productive......... like a nice canoe weekend, some rowing, maybe a shore lunch, and a visit from the locals.................... in the mountains of west virginia, SQEAL BOY!!!!!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

That's intelligent, "dude".

I'm simply sticking up for Steve, who said he couldn't hear Gord sing a rare song when he wished he could, only to be told that HE WAS HATED by some members of this forum.

Some people really need to do more thinking and less reacting.

[The Horrible Esthete]

IT'S A ROCK CONCERT.................................................................

And don't you expect to HEAR IT if you pay to attend?

Would you be cool with purchasing a movie ticket if you couldn't see the frickin screen?

:roll:

[nois]

never hate, just "boggled" i don't get it? i am usually a passive guy, and see all points of view on things, but this conversation always upsets me. i don't know why, i just get really confused when people ask others not to sing at a concert. has anyone here hear the live radio friendly version of breakdown by tom petty, or the same of cocaine by clapton.......... this is what a concert experience is. if you wanna hear details, and every little word that gordie says, learn to read lips, cause it's never gonna happen. i wish i could hear every rant from shows that i've gone to, but i'd rather sing.................. so the aye's have it!

[eatmecompletely]

[quote="chris"]I guess I forgot to mention that I hate the singing crowd as well and agree with you. As a fan, and moreso as a taper, the crowd singers really degrade my concert going experience.

Man you all need to chill out.

1) It is just a concert, someone attending as the same right as you do to enjoy the concert. If singing makes them happy let them sing. We are all there for a good time

2) Dude you shouldnt take this too seriously it just a concert, the purpose is for Everyone to enjoy ! If singing lets them enjoy it, than that is awesome, it is also a free country

3)If you are upset about taping, maybe we should all request that the Hip put taping section in their shows Phish and a lot of other bands have done this to satisfy everyone.

At the end of the day, the purpose of these concerts is to enjoy yourself, have fun, relax and hear a kick ass band. This is not a life or death matter.

Those are my thoughts anyways, I just think you all need to chill out or start a quiet section at concerts. Maybe you can hand out pamphlets explaining to people how to behave at a show. No Talking, No Singing. No Smoking. Sounds like a lecture not a rock concert

PS I dont mean to offend anyone, I just think it is silly that people are complainging about concert goers singing at a rock show, this isnt the opera is it?

[nois]

I guess I forgot to mention that I hate the singing crowd as well and agree with you. As a fan, and moreso as a taper, the crowd singers really degrade my concert going experience.

Man you all need to chill out.

1) It is just a concert, someone attending as the same right as you do to enjoy the concert. If singing makes them happy let them sing. We are all there for a good time

2) Dude you shouldnt take this too seriously it just a concert, the purpose is for Everyone to enjoy ! If singing lets them enjoy it, than that is awesome, it is also a free country

3)If you are upset about taping, maybe we should all request that the Hip put taping section in their shows Phish and a lot of other bands have done this to satisfy everyone.

At the end of the day, the purpose of these concerts is to enjoy yourself, have fun, relax and hear a kick ass band. This is not a life or death matter.

Those are my thoughts anyways, I just think you all need to chill out or start a quiet section at concerts. Maybe you can hand out pamphlets explaining to people how to behave at a show. No Talking, No Singing. No Smoking. Sounds like a lecture not a rock concert

PS I dont mean to offend anyone, I just think it is silly that people are complainging about concert goers singing at a rock show, this isnt the opera is it?

"i agree man, i totally fuckin' agree"