[tth_fan]

All right, I know politics is a subject everyone should stay away from, but I don't care. The debates have taken place. The French debate on the 1st, and the english debate on the 2nd. Some interesting points included: economics, environment, arts & culture (interestingly, nobody one called out the Conservatives for missing out on the governor general gala back in May), and leadership. So, lets take a poll and see how the Hipbase community represents the Canada votes as a whole.

[The Heron Outside]

Felt like Elizabeth May was the only one answering questions and informing voters as to what her party would accomplish if elected, while everyone else just spent the whole time ganging up on Harper. (Which was warranted, I'm sure)

[skippy the wonder dog]

On the contrary, all the leaders said a great deal about their parties' positions and policies -- except for Harper, who did nothing but play the part he's adopted from television commercials, smiling and speaking oh-so-reasonably about nothing at all. Harper set the tone for his evening by refusing to answer the first question, instead attacking Dion -- and the ensuing fracas was his weakest performance of the night.

Elizabeth May and Stephane Dion were both impressive. May appeared intelligent and well-informed, and demonstrated that her party deserves a seat at the table. Dion was poised, confident, oozed sincerity. Layton seemed to eager to work around to prescripted talking points and fumbled an opportunity to torpedo Harper on the arts question. (Nobody fully capitalized on this.) Duceppe was sharp as always, but nobody in English Canada much cares. Harper continually looked like a kid who'd been caught with his hand in the cookie jar, a fixed smile on his face and the gears whirling inside.

[grimes]

It's a shame the Liberals have done such a piss poor job of running this campaign because their platform is actually not bad...I'm all for the carbon tax if it means income tax cuts. Their campaign has been so bad though I find it hard to vote for them. If I lived in another riding I'd probably vote conservative, but given the Liberals are the only ones with a chance to beat the NDP in my riding, I'll probably vote Lib.

[downie_24]

After 8 vots we have a 4 way tie...wow!

[Dark Canuck17]

I like everything the green party is standing for and even their budget is in line. Hey if we don't have a planet we don't even have politics...or a home for that matter.

[tth_fan]

Having watched both debates, I think that the french debate had a clear winner. Say what you want about Quebec nationalists, Duceppe knew what he was doing. He knew his demographic and reached out to the people of Quebec in a very well presented argument. However, Dion was very impressive in French also, and hopefully that will allow him to steal some seats back from the conservatives in Quebec.
As for the english debate, there was no real clear winner. Harper tried to play the calm, wise "father" of the group, but he came off as cocky, unprepared and lost for words. Layton focused too much on Harper's sweater wearing trends (although it did make me laugh), Dion just can't express himself in English (at all), and no English-Canadian cares what Duceppe has to say. May put up some agressive arguments and did not back down. I am glad she was allowed to partake cause she brought up some good strong points. So, even though I don't think anybody won the english debate, I think Harper may have been the loser, although Dion was not far off.
That being said, I like the Liberal platform and I agree that their campaign is being poorly ran so the message is not being put out there properly. None the less, I will probably vote Liberal (not that it matters cause I live in Alberta).

[skippy the wonder dog]

No one really "wins" this kind of debate. You succeed if you're able to present the right image and present your position. Even though Harper had almost nothing concrete to say last night, he still succeeded in a sense, because it was his aim going in to project the image of a reasonable man hounded by slavering partisan dogs.

Most voters have made up their minds before the debate. Hell, if the polls are to be believed, most voters have made up their minds before the damn election is called, and don't much care that their boy Stevie has yet to make any concrete promises, and has yet to release a platform. Want a majority mandate for four years? Fine -- no need to tell us what you'll do, or where you'll get the money to do it. We trust you. Here's the keys, man.

[direwolf74]

Most likely I'll be voting liberal like I usually do. Not that my vote really matters in the conservative shit show we call Alberta.

[Shane Kroeker]

I just think back to the Chretien and Martin governments and remember how bad the times were. Looking back on the Harper government thus far, I can say that I feel pretty good about the state of our country. At least Harper kept his promise on lowering tax rates where the two previous PM's could not. I'll be checking the Conservative box this fall - even if I receive criticism from you all! so don't even try...

[tigerthelion]

I don't trust any politicians, but the lesser of the evils is clearly Harper. Layton is living in some fantasy land, like usual, and the Green Party can say whatever they want because they know they'll never be in office to have the opportunity for people to see that their ideas are basically all unrealistic. Dion? Well, he's just a buffoon. Duceppe? He's actually not too bad except for the party he represents. I'm still contemplating whether the Conservative deserve my vote or not. If I vote, it'll be PC, but I'm not all that overwhelmingly enamoured with them to be honest.

[tth_fan]

Most likely I'll be voting liberal like I usually do. Not that my vote really matters in the conservative shit show we call Alberta.

Thank You!! :thumb: :thumb:
Somebody else who understands...

[Sam]

I don't trust any politicians, but the lesser of the evils is clearly Harper.

Really? Harper is the lesser of the evils? Really? That's fascinating because I would have thought that the meglomaniac intent on dismantling Canada's social safety net and privatizing health care would have been the greatest of the evils we're being presented with. Here's a great quote from the Western Standard's Adam Yosida on what Harper should do to social programs once he's elected:

Do too much, rather than too little. Don’t shift these things around. Burn them down and salt the Earth. A future Liberal government won’t have the guts, the time, the wherewithal, or the money to recreate them all at once. Sell the land and the buildings. Shred the records. Disperse the staff. It’s easier to destroy than it is to create. A Tory government on a rampage could destroy in a couple of months what it took four decades to create – and what it would take another forty to recreate.

I've added the emphases. That's what Harper's supporters are suggesting that he do to the social programs that the vast majority of Canadians support. And that's the lesser of the evils you think you're being presented with?

I don't mean to be antagonistic, I really don't. Partisan politics aren't going to help us in this next election and I wouldn't want to add to the cacaphony of bullshit that's being presented to the Canadian public. I wouldn't even have posted except that I can't stand by and let the statement "Harper is the lesser of the evils" stand unchallenged. He is the greatest of the evils we're presented with. Dion may lack charm and Layton may strike you as too left-wing but they are both far less likely to destroy what has taken countless Canadians generations to build. They are far less likely to drag us into the same abyss that the US is currently in.

Harper is not the lesser of the evils. Don't ever believe that.

[grimes]

Really? Harper is the lesser of the evils? Really? That's fascinating because I would have thought that the meglomaniac intent on dismantling Canada's social safety net and privatizing health care would have been the greatest of the evils we're being presented with. Here's a great quote from the Western Standard's Adam Yosida on what Harper should do to social programs once he's elected:

Do too much, rather than too little. Don’t shift these things around. Burn them down and salt the Earth. A future Liberal government won’t have the guts, the time, the wherewithal, or the money to recreate them all at once. Sell the land and the buildings. Shred the records. Disperse the staff. It’s easier to destroy than it is to create. A Tory government on a rampage could destroy in a couple of months what it took four decades to create – and what it would take another forty to recreate.

I've added the emphases. That's what Harper's supporters are suggesting that he do to the social programs that the vast majority of Canadians support. And that's the lesser of the evils you think you're being presented with?

I don't mean to be antagonistic, I really don't. Partisan politics aren't going to help us in this next election and I wouldn't want to add to the cacaphony of bullshit that's being presented to the Canadian public. I wouldn't even have posted except that I can't stand by and let the statement "Harper is the lesser of the evils" stand unchallenged. He is the greatest of the evils we're presented with. Dion may lack charm and Layton may strike you as too left-wing but they are both far less likely to destroy what has taken countless Canadians generations to build. They are far less likely to drag us into the same abyss that the US is currently in.

Harper is not the lesser of the evils. Don't ever believe that.

Typical liberal fear mongering. What role exactly does this Adam Yosida play in setting policy for the party? And to suggest that Harper is intent on privatizing health care is a pretty bold claim. Do you have any evidence to back that up?

[skippy the wonder dog]

And to suggest that Harper is intent on privatizing health care is a pretty bold claim. Do you have any evidence to back that up?

You mean, other than Harper's own numerous statements, made before he became CPC leader?

Harper now talks a good talk about being a friend of the public health care system, but his talk doesn't square with his record. The CPC has been playing nice because they've had a minority government. Their strategy has been to use the minority government to build support, and to that end they put away all their controversial policies, even to the point of alienating their core supporters. Given their refusal to publish a platform in this election, Canadians should be concerned over what they might do with a majority.