[potsie]

With all the love, admiration, and attention that Gord and the Hip received over the past two years, it's easy to forget that there are people out there who truly hate this band. That harsh email message that Barclay inserted in the book from one of the band's peers (name withheld) was a bit jarring when I read it, especially when he says "they've always been terrible". Whoever that guy is, I get the impression that he almost resents their success, even though he admits that he likes them as people.

Those were cutting comments: "Maybe when someone has the 'courage' to write a book on the Emperoror's New Clothes aspect of that band, I'll contribute..." This person obviously lacked the 'courage' to have their name attached to the email, unless it was Barclay's choice (which would be strange). I would have enjoyed hearing this peer musician expand upon these comments and tell us exactly why the band is terrible. I'm always interested in hearing a well-argued contrarian voice.

[potsie]

I alluded to it in the other thread, but he has a couple of paragraphs on the Copper Penny bootleg early on. He essentially combines that bootleg (which has circulated for over a decade) with the 1987 Renfrew show that surfaced around the time of the last show. As I said in the other thread, catching onto that is a total Database moment, but it still jarred me. I'm also pretty certain Boots and Trickle Down were swapped when discussing who wrote what on Up To Here. The sheer fact Boots and Hearts continued to be played is proof enough it's a Downie lyric.

This is one topic I would love some clarification on... UTH lyric authorship. Prior to the UTH's release, Barclay says (in discussing the decision to credit all songs to The Hip), "This was a lot to swallow for Gord Sinclair, who had written two-thirds of the songs at that point, both music and lyrics." I don't know whether Barclay is referring to every song the Hip had ever written from 1984-1990 or whether he is referring to released material. If it's the latter, the "two-thirds" comment comes across as erroneous. There were 19 released songs at that point:

1. Smalltown - Sinclair
2. Last AE - Sinclair
3. Killing Time- Downie
4. Evelyn - Sinclair
5. Sideroad - Sinclair
6. Werewolf - Downie
7. Highway Girl - Downie
8. All-Canadian - Sinclair
9. Blow - Downie
10. I'll Believe ?
11. NOIS - Downie
12. 38 Years Old - Downie
13. She Didn't Know - Langlois
14. Boots ?
15. Everytime ?
16. Weight - Langlois
17. Trickle - Downie
18. Midnight ?
19. Opiated - Downie

We know that Sinclair wrote 5 on the EP, meaning that 7-8 were his songs on UTH if we are to take the "2/3" comment at face-value. This doesn't work out. Even if we credit him for "I'll Believe", "Boots", "Everytime", and "Another Midnight", that gives him 9/19, less than 50%.

And I agree that it seems much more likely that Downie wrote Boots rather than Trickle Down.

[potsie]

p. 114. DFN release date is incorrectly listed as September 6, 1994. Should be September 19, 1994.

In my mind, DFN was released on a Saturday. This was of note because a) albums aren't usually released on Saturdays and there was talk about this unique release day at the time, and b) this was the first album I bought as soon as it came out - release day, in my mind. I very well could be wrong - it's been know to happen daily, but the fact that I see so many varying dates attributed to the release day of DFN sent me down a rabbit hole trying to find actual evidence. Sept. 6 (a Tuesday) and Sept 19 (a Monday) are both mentioned a lot online - usually in articles written after-the-fact. But I did find this newspaper review dated Sept 24 (a Saturday!) that says the album "hits store today."

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None of this really matters -- maybe there was a limited early release or something like that -- I'm just coming to grips that maybe my memory is flawed. As the song says, we don't go to hell...the memories (of DFN's release) do cratch: . At the very least, that review of DFN I linked to is worth a read.

New music release days were, nearly without exception, on Tuesdays throughout the 1990's. September 6th was a Tuesday that year so that fits. I was in second year undergrad that fall and my memory of that time period is that "DFN" was not an "end of summer album" but rather an early fall album, coming out after classes had already started so my first reaction to seeing that date was that it was incorrect because it was too early in September. I do feel like I picked up the album on a weekday but given that the release of DFN was an "event", it certainly could have been on a Saturday. Interesting that the release date can not be accurately nailed down.

[direwolf74]

With all the love, admiration, and attention that Gord and the Hip received over the past two years, it's easy to forget that there are people out there who truly hate this band. That harsh email message that Barclay inserted in the book from one of the band's peers (name withheld) was a bit jarring when I read it, especially when he says "they've always been terrible". Whoever that guy is, I get the impression that he almost resents their success, even though he admits that he likes them as people.

Those were cutting comments: "Maybe when someone has the 'courage' to write a book on the Emperoror's New Clothes aspect of that band, I'll contribute..." This person obviously lacked the 'courage' to have their name attached to the email, unless it was Barclay's choice (which would be strange). I would have enjoyed hearing this peer musician expand upon these comments and tell us exactly why the band is terrible. I'm always interested in hearing a well-argued contrarian voice.

I used to work with a guy who despised the Hip. He knew I was a fan, and he'd go out of his way to trash them when I was around, which was annoying. He would call them "The Tragically S**t", and dumb comments like that. One day I asked him what it was about the band that he hated so much, but he didn't really have a sound argument other than "Gord can't sing" and that they were overrated as musicians. He was more of a hard rock/metal guy and wasn't a fan of Canadian music in general (his other least favorite bands were 54-40 and Sloan). And yet he loved Our Lady Peace, lol. Go figure.

Another story: Years ago I was dating a girl who didn't like the Hip at all, mostly because of Gord's "weird nasally voice." So I decided to drag her to one of the Calgary shows on the '99 PP tour. After the show I asked her if her opinion had changed in regards to the band, and she said "ok, now I get it." From that point on, she was a fan. And still is.

[potsie]

Finished the book this morning. Overall I'd say it was a highly enjoyable, informative, and heartbreaking read.

Agree. I'm very thankful that someone took the time to do this properly. It's amazing that it took so long. A book written in the late 1990's about the band's rise to the top of the CanRock mountain would have certainly found an interested audience. There are no self-proclaimed "Hip's biggest fan" individuals who won't find interesting details and tidbits in this book. The "thematic" chapters that are interspersed throughout serve to broaden the book's appeal to less rabid fans and most are quite interesting. The one on the Hip's US success (or perceived lack thereof) should really put the "How come the band wasn't successful in the US?" question to bed.

Some of my favorite bits from this book were the road stories from the various opening bands:

Kate Fenner talking about being able to hear Gord's rants through her in-ear monitors on stage in crystal clear quality. How she could hear things he was saying that the audience couldn't, and just marveling at how his brain worked.

Ian Blurton's story about the crazy show in Dallas with the guy crowdsurfing in a wheelchair, fights in the mosh pit, and the pregnant woman lying on the stage.

Jim Cuddy's story about Blue Rodeo and the Hip opening for the Eagles, and how pissed off the Eagles were when the Hip refused to cut their set short.

Robert Plant taking a liking to them when they opened the Page & Plant shows in '95.

As I was reading the book I thought there were two particular instances that I would love to see video footage of:
1. Robert Plant taking over the drums during a DFN era soundcheck.
2. The Hip's performance at the 1988 Toronto Music Awards. I would also love to know what two songs they performed that night.

And no banjo on Titanic Terrarium? I was surprised to read that sound came from a treated guitar track.

[Moof_Milker]

I went to the book signing today in Lindsay. Barclay was a really cool guy. Very open and easy to talk to. He shared lots of stories from the book and about the book. I recommend going to one of these events if you get the chance. It was nice to have an in-depth Hip discussion, like we have here, in a face-to-face setting. Something he talked about in the book and today was the that Hip were the band who (literally and figuratively) did the dishes. It got me thinking about the direct references to dish-washing in Gord's lyrics. Here's a few off the top of my head:

"I stood at your sink
And I felt your warm water
I washed your dishes
And I looked out your kitchen window" Greasy Jungle

"In a sink full of Ganges, I'd remain" MM@W

"This tune will do you like the dishes" Summer's Killing Us

"Dishwasher loaded.
The clanging of the dishes
Betray my trembling hands.
The clanging of the dishes." It Didn't Start to Break My Heart

Clearly, Gord had strong feelings about dishes. :thumb:

[Escape@Hand]

About 1/4 of the way through the book, just reading through the DFN section. Man, I sure would love to hear the original mixes Mark Howard did for that album! We need a deluxe version ASAP, like The Verve did with their 5 disc Urban Hymns release, with b-sides, live stuff, and of course those original mixes.

[Killer Whale Tank]

I also found the DFN section really interesting. First, that they wanted Lanois and he turned them down twice; second, that Gregg was so horrified by an album now regarded as the finest of their career that it cost him his role in the Hip's operation; third, that Howard had to push the band out of its comfort zone (which confirms my suspicion that the Hip are musically somewhat conservative); and fourth, that there is a treasure trove of really wild alternative mixes waiting to be heard!!! The Hip absolutely have to do some sort of "Bootleg Series" project. It'd be a travesty to have all that stuff sitting there unreleased.

[Escape@Hand]

p. 114. DFN release date is incorrectly listed as September 6, 1994. Should be September 19, 1994.

In my mind, DFN was released on a Saturday. This was of note because a) albums aren't usually released on Saturdays and there was talk about this unique release day at the time, and b) this was the first album I bought as soon as it came out - release day, in my mind. I very well could be wrong - it's been know to happen daily, but the fact that I see so many varying dates attributed to the release day of DFN sent me down a rabbit hole trying to find actual evidence. Sept. 6 (a Tuesday) and Sept 19 (a Monday) are both mentioned a lot online - usually in articles written after-the-fact. But I did find this newspaper review dated Sept 24 (a Saturday!) that says the album "hits store today."

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://media.winnipegfreepress.com/images/hip-94-d4n-album-review.jpg">https://media.winnipegfreepress.com/ima ... review.jpg</a><!-- m -->

None of this really matters -- maybe there was a limited early release or something like that -- I'm just coming to grips that maybe my memory is flawed. As the song says, we don't go to hell...the memories (of DFN's release) do cratch: . At the very least, that review of DFN I linked to is worth a read.

As for the "unnamed musician," it'll be very hard to convince me that wasn't Chris Murphy.

Hey, it's not the band he hates...it's their fans.

DFN was definitely released on a Saturday. I had youth group Friday nights and I remember doing a city wide scavenger hunt that Friday, being in the car huddled close to the speaker so I could hear the local rock station play the album in it's entirety pre-release. And then I had my dad take me downtown first thing the next morning to pick it up. I still remember coming home, going to my room and playing the album on my ghetto blaster. Good times! :music

[schaggs]

Unnamed musician could also have been Matthew Good.

[direwolf74]

Unnamed musician could also have been Matthew Good.

I don't think so. While he did slag them a couple of times in the mid-90s (along with just about every other popular CanRock band), he seems to have changed his tune since then. I've read quite a few interviews with him over the last several years where he has nothing but praise and respect for those guys.

[edgoffin]

Unnamed musician could also have been Matthew Good.

I don't think so. While he did slag them a couple of times in the mid-90s (along with just about every other popular CanRock band), he seems to have changed his tune since then.

Yeah I’ll second that - if it was 15 years ago maybe. But Matt’s mellowed (and properly medicated) and had some really nice things to say about Gord and The Hip.

I’m really drawing a blank on who it could be, they seemed so supportive of opening acts, festival acts, etc. Thinking of bands that were big in the same era that The Hip really hit the mainstream and could feel the most jealous of success, I just keep crossing off names - blue rodeo, pursuit of happiness, 54-40, skydiggers, BNL -obviously none of those.

I’m going with Mike Reno

[potsie]

DFN was definitely released on a Saturday. I had youth group Friday nights and I remember doing a city wide scavenger hunt that Friday, being in the car huddled close to the speaker so I could hear the local rock station play the album in it's entirety pre-release. And then I had my dad take me downtown first thing the next morning to pick it up. I still remember coming home, going to my room and playing the album on my ghetto blaster. Good times! :music

You are correct. I found a December 1994 issue of Billboard magazine (a pretty reliable source) that talks about DFN sales that year and points to the release date being Saturday, September 24th. Man, the days when an album release was actually an event. Good times indeed!

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[potsie]

Unnamed musician could also have been Matthew Good.

I don't think so. While he did slag them a couple of times in the mid-90s (along with just about every other popular CanRock band), he seems to have changed his tune since then.

Yeah I’ll second that - if it was 15 years ago maybe. But Matt’s mellowed (and properly medicated) and had some really nice things to say about Gord and The Hip.

I’m really drawing a blank on who it could be, they seemed so supportive of opening acts, festival acts, etc. Thinking of bands that were big in the same era that The Hip really hit the mainstream and could feel the most jealous of success, I just keep crossing off names - blue rodeo, pursuit of happiness, 54-40, skydiggers, BNL -obviously none of those.

I’m going with Mike Reno

Matt Good has definitely slagged them in the past. I recall him talking shit about them when UTH went diamond (1,000,000 in sales) in Canada in the early 2000's. He accused the Hip's record company of buying up CDs to push their sales figure over that magical number. He has certainly said some kind things about Gord and the guys in the band personally over the past two years, but outside of him covering ABAC I've never actually heard or read anything from him suggesting that he had any great respect for the band's music. But you're right, 15-20 years ago Matt Good was a very polarizing (and interesting) figure on the Canadian music scene and if that email was written then, it would have definitely been from him.

[senrab]

Baker’s not a big fan:

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