[cochise]

If I could change one thing about the Kingston show last year, it would be that they pulled out a couple of EP tunes in the encore, just to bring things full circle. I equate Smalltown with U2’s “I Will Follow”. It was the first step on the way to greatness. U2 hasn't forgotten that step (and still regularly plays their first hit) but the Hip seemingly had no interest in re-visiting their beginnings, which is a shame.

My thoughts too in regards to the Kingston show. There wouldn't have been a dry eye in the house if they had closed with something like Last American Exit. I know it would have gotten me anyways.

[edgoffin]

Great thread idea!

When I think about the EP, the question that plagues me is “Why these songs?” The Ken Greer demo tape from May 1986, a full 18 months before the December 1987 release of the EP....

I'd never put the dates together. I've always thought the demo tape songs were the demos for UTH. In that respect, Evelyn and Werewolf really sound like odd choices. Just a guess, but possibly they knew they had the beginnings of what could be a pretty strong, and musically cohesive debut. Rather than "waste" those songs on the EP, they held them back and then padded out the EP.

EPs as a medium sort of faded away, though it's making a bit of a comeback with vinyl. I think now they're used more as a quick release when there's a long gap between full length releases. In the 80s, I can think of a few examples where an EP was more a "test the water" for a new band -- build some momentum touring, get something out in the market, and then follow up quickly with a full length release. REM are a good example (and sort of a similar release to The Hip, some good songs and some duds followed by a pretty strong first album).

[Killer Whale Tank]

Great thread!

The EP is, not to put too fine a point on it, mediocre, with only a few hints of what was to come. I don't mean the indie production values but rather the songs themselves. At the time, I heard "Smalltown Bringdown" and thought, "hey, this is a band to keep an eye on" - no more than that. It wasn't until I saw the tail end of the video for NOIS (on MuchMusic of course :lol: ) that I almost literally ran out and bought UTH. To this day I find the jump in quality from EP to LP quite striking, a little bit like the leap The Beatles made from doing a bunch of debatable try-outs and demos to suddenly generating "Please Please Me" and "From Me To You."

I guess the biggest difference is the emergence of Gord Downie as a lyricist. That might be the key that vaulted the Hip from being just another decent rock band, as evinced here, to the most formidable force ever unleashed in Canadian music. You can be as riveting a performer as you want, but if the material isn't Grade-A, it's not gonna matter much.

One thing that is interesting is that the "Canadiana" element was there from the get-go. Clearly that was a conscious, collective commitment.

[potsie]

One thing that is interesting is that the "Canadiana" element was there from the get-go. Clearly that was a conscious, collective commitment.

Interestingly it is Sinclair, not Downie, that is mining the vein of Canadiana on the EP. The overtly Canadian "All Canadian Surf Club" and the only slightly less obvious "Last American Exit" are the product of his imagination. The only potential candidate from Downie is the mention of "Cemetery Side Road", which could be in the Ottawa region, or could be a lyrically generic thoroughfare.

And speaking of Last American Exit, it was once prefaced with one of my favourite song introductions: "This is a song about a stretch of pavement, and some lines, yellow, then they got painted over white, then yellow again."

[hotmetal401]

Great thread idea!

When I think about the EP, the question that plagues me is “Why these songs?” The Ken Greer demo tape from May 1986, a full 18 months before the December 1987 release of the EP, contains near fully developed versions of She Didn’t Know, When the Weight Comes Down, NOIS, and other great tracks like Rain, Hearts, Fires (which incidentally has the exact same drum ending as Smalltown) and Nuclear Bar-B-Q. Why didn’t any of these make the cut for the EP? Surely they would have been a step up from Evelyn and Werewolf.

I'm still of the opinion the May 1986 date is wrong and that demo is actually from 1987 or (more likely) 1988. Play that bootleg and then listen to the July 1988 Horseshoe Tavern show. The versions are too similar, from the extra verse to New O to the sad-bastard version of Times Are Passing Us By (the less stellar version too, in my opinion, compared to the twang-centric jam the song later became). Maybe this is the kind of question that will be finally answered in the Michael Barclay biography (although I kind of doubt it).

Until then, we have this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.qjlongform.com/The-Hip-Files/Chapter2_Archives.html">http://www.qjlongform.com/The-Hip-Files ... hives.html</a><!-- m -->. In May 1986, Paul Langlois wasn't in the band. In Have Not Been The Same, (also by Barclay et al), She Didn't Know is said to be a Langlois song. If it's the first song on the demo, the demo wasn't recorded in the spring of 1986. Also, in May 1986, there was still a saxophonist in the band. The sax is conspicuously absent from those songs.

But, to directly answer "why these songs?" I think it's been said before that the songs on the EP were the oldest and most road worn. The minimal bootlegs we have from this formative time would suggest that. That YouTube clip from 1984 of Smalltown Bringdown and the Copper Penny boot with All Canadian and Evelyn show just how old those songs are. Now, why Heart Attack Love never made the cut, I'll never know...

[edgoffin]

I'm still of the opinion the May 1986 date is wrong and that demo is actually from 1987 or (more likely) 1988.

Just in terms of songwriting and sound (not recording quality, but overall band sound) that timeline does make sense.

In the past few days I've listened to the EP more than I have in the past decade. One funny thing is catching some glimpses of future songs or styles in the band's earliest recorded work. Eveyln, which is actually starting to grow on me, has some of the same elements of She Didn't Know (lyrical theme and pattern aside, the vocal cadence is very similar). Killing Time has sort of a Fight feel to it. Cemetery Sideroad shares some of the rhythm pattern and again vocal delivery done better in Three Pistols.

The really funny thing is listening to the EP on Spotify, reach the end of Highway Girl and it then jumped to Morning Moon -- that's a bit of a jarring leap.

[gsmacleod]

Curious if you noticed any differences with the reissue (beyond the extra track?).

Listening to both last evening, the biggest difference between the two seems to be the reissue is louder (not a huge difference but noticeable playing them back to back), better bottom end on the reissue and that the vocals seem to be slightly less prominent. On the original, the vocals seem to be dominant in the mix while on the reissue, it seems there is a better balance between the instruments and vocals.

Shane

[sean.bonner]

Curious if you noticed any differences with the reissue (beyond the extra track?).

Listening to both last evening, the biggest difference between the two seems to be the reissue is louder (not a huge difference but noticeable playing them back to back), better bottom end on the reissue and that the vocals seem to be slightly less prominent. On the original, the vocals seem to be dominant in the mix while on the reissue, it seems there is a better balance between the instruments and vocals.

Shane

Are you talking about the CD release, or the recent vinyl reissue from Music On Vinyl?

[gsmacleod]

Are you talking about the CD release, or the recent vinyl reissue from Music On Vinyl?

The two releases:

1987 vinyl - marked over barcode as "for promotion only" and with sticker on the front "Specially Priced Debut"

2016 vinyl - from MusicVaultz - I recall a suggestion that this (as well as UTH and RA) were very similar to the MOV release and may have been the same

Shane

[potsie]

I'm still of the opinion the May 1986 date is wrong and that demo is actually from 1987 or (more likely) 1988. Play that bootleg and then listen to the July 1988 Horseshoe Tavern show. The versions are too similar, from the extra verse to New O to the sad-bastard version of Times Are Passing Us By (the less stellar version too, in my opinion, compared to the twang-centric jam the song later became). Maybe this is the kind of question that will be finally answered in the Michael Barclay biography (although I kind of doubt it).

Until then, we have this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.qjlongform.com/The-Hip-Files/Chapter2_Archives.html">http://www.qjlongform.com/The-Hip-Files ... hives.html</a><!-- m -->. In May 1986, Paul Langlois wasn't in the band. In Have Not Been The Same, (also by Barclay et al), She Didn't Know is said to be a Langlois song. If it's the first song on the demo, the demo wasn't recorded in the spring of 1986. Also, in May 1986, there was still a saxophonist in the band. The sax is conspicuously absent from those songs.

But, to directly answer "why these songs?" I think it's been said before that the songs on the EP were the oldest and most road worn. The minimal bootlegs we have from this formative time would suggest that. That YouTube clip from 1984 of Smalltown Bringdown and the Copper Penny boot with All Canadian and Evelyn show just how old those songs are. Now, why Heart Attack Love never made the cut, I'll never know...

You make a compelling argument for the labeling of the demo as being incorrect. There are clearly two guitars in those demo songs, unless Rob overdubbed some additional guitar parts afterwards, and that wouldn't likely be the case for a demo made in one day (May 26th, or so says Ken Greer's son, a couple of months prior to Paul joining the band). If it does just represent one day of recording, everything was most likely captured live off the floor.

The link was a great read. Two new pieces of info I gleaned: 1. Gord Downie once worked campus security, no doubt drawing upon that experience to inform his stellar performance as "Cop #1" in the Trailer Park Boys Movie (snubbed by the Genie Awards!) 2. The Hip once had back-up dancers! From October 1985: "As a new twist they brought out three stylish female dancers". I wonder how long that addition lasted?

[chagrinfalls]

The Hip once had back-up dancers! From October 1985: "As a new twist they brought out three stylish female dancers". I wonder how long that addition lasted?

I heard it lasted til Candy's coughing fit

[potsie]

The Hip once had back-up dancers! From October 1985: "As a new twist they brought out three stylish female dancers". I wonder how long that addition lasted?

I heard it lasted til Candy's coughing fit

The crowd complained that they had a hard time "watching the band through a bunch of dancers"

[Tthip]

The Hip once had back-up dancers! From October 1985: "As a new twist they brought out three stylish female dancers". I wonder how long that addition lasted?

I heard it lasted til Candy's coughing fit

The crowd complained that they had a hard time "watching the band through a bunch of dancers"

These are just great!

[gsmacleod]

EP Track by Track

Small Town Bringdown - not a bad song, pretty formulaic in terms of structure and nothing outstanding as far as lyrics. Too much reverb/echo on the vocal tracks for my taste but the hook is catchy and will get stuck in my head occasionally. Like the little solo that comes from the hook

Last American Exit - similar to previous but Paul's acoustic guitar was always notable to me with this track

Killing Time - solid blues tune; have always enjoyed this one, just a fun tune that has always highlighted their blues roots

Evelyn - never cared much for this tune; nothing special in the lyrics and the playing has always felt rushed. Formulaic again but done better on other songs

Cemetery Sideroad - the intro to me is interesting as I think it shows what is to come; big, recognizable intros on the rockers and just some solid progressions and builds. Chorus has often gotten stuck in my head and really like Rob's solo in this one.

I'm a Werewolf, Baby - I think the intro has possibilities and some of the riffs are insight into some of the great songs to come later but the lyrics are great and again, some of the song just sounds rushed.

Highway Girl - simple, catchy intro that adds a bit for the second time through and then holds steady through the verse. Again, formulaic but like the first two songs on the EP, pretty solid in terms of how its executed.

All Canadian Surf Club - this song has never really stuck with me; some of the work on it reminds me a bit of Eldorado in terms of the tempo but it just doesn't come together on this song plus the lyrics just aren't that interesting to me.

If the EP was my first introduction to the Hip, I'm not sure I would have ended up following them for twenty years; there are some great flashes of what was to come but overall just nothing here that captures me like UTH. However, looking at in as far as time and place, it's interesting to see where a bar band was shortly before making a huge step forward with their song writing and becoming a national phenomena.

Shane

[andrew sharpe]

Was this the last time Sinclair contributed lyrics? I've only heard rumours about his lyrical input on UTH.

GS contributed lyrics on UTH, though I don't think they've ever confirmed which. It wasn't until Road Apples that GD announced to the band that he would only sing his own (source https://ecommons.usask.ca/bitstream/hand...sAllowed=y).